Key posts: Exterior wall concept

Substantial posts by seaweed, who started the thread, and by the forum’s most active contributors. 103 of 243 posts are listed.

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seaweed, 7 November 2010UPDATED TO FORUM SPECS Hi all. I am in The Yukon Northern Canada. Temps range from -40 to +30 celcius. I have run a studio here for about 8 years now and have a pretty…
Soundman2020, 11 November 2010Pardon my ignorance, but what is "donna conna"? In any event, regardless of what "donna conna" is, it wont help to "stop transmission of sound" unless the entire wall is…
seaweed, 12 November 2010Thanks for the comments Stuart. Donna conna is a medium density fiber board. The walls are designed as basic 2x6 but after they are insulated , 2x3 is strapped…
seaweed, 13 November 2010Hi John. The property is out of town. Its 7.5 acres with neighboring lots as big or more. Mostly pine trees and spruce, the odd deciduous. It's very quiet out here most…
seaweed, 15 November 2010Do you mean within the building? if so...the building isn't up yet. We just poured the footings. As for how much noise i will be making, i record everything from metal…
Soundman2020, 15 November 2010So count on 115 dB, minimum, perhaps pushing 120. That is LOUD. No, it should be focused on lows. If you take care or low frequency isolation, the mids and highs will be…
seaweed, 15 November 2010To be brutally honest, no it doesn't! Are you REALLY prepared to rip out all your treatment and gear after the room is already finished but doesn't work, just to add a…
seaweed, 16 November 2010Interesting, we just got 2 inches of snow. How do you think that will affect the lows travel for my test? pics of site for some reference........…
seaweed, 16 November 2010Obviously. But what i am getting at is isn't there some sort of brainiac equation where you multiply the number of trees by their average height then multiply by the…
AVare, 16 November 2010Aah, you were asking just about snow. Tree height affects the frequencay range absorbed. More significantly the foliage has the greatest impact, at higher frequencies.…
seaweed, 8 December 2010Hey Guys, no update on the sound transmission yet, got too cold, too snowy etc but i will have some results soon. A quick inquiry though. We are looking at the trusses…

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seaweed, 16 December 2010Thinking about this outer wall design here and could use some guidance. I have been studying these docs http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/p ... /ir832.pdf…
gullfo, 17 December 2010it looks like you will be on your way to meeting your STC 65 goal. are you planning on beefing up the ceiling the same as the walls? the ceiling is going to be large and…
seaweed, 17 December 2010What about using a hanger system for the ceiling? I was thinking of these http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/icw/index.aspx Also on that topic, lets say i did add an…
gullfo, 17 December 2010i would certainly consider the trusses and if you only have the roof and then in the inner ceiling, you have your double leafs. depending on how much space you can leave…
seaweed, 17 December 2010Some of this is hard for me to understand. Did you mean to say you consider the trusses one leaf? Just to stick with this ceiling leaf thing for a minute....Are you…
seaweed, 31 December 2010I have a question regarding using rockwool insulation. Is it, and if so how is it beneficial to use rockwool in one or both leafs over fiberglass pink in a 2 leaf…
seaweed, 3 January 2011of course the CR will have it's angles etc, the thick walls around it represent allotted space for treatment, there is also 3 feet at the back of the CR which is hard to…
gullfo, 3 January 2011what is that 4' space on the side of the CR? for the CR, first and foremost its for critical listening so you can make the correct mix decisions. secondly if the room is…
seaweed, 3 January 2011The 4' space is just extra space for treatment or maybe a spot for the tape machines. It came about when the kitchen wall was splayed. As for a dry booth i am leaning…
gullfo, 3 January 2011if there is an option to change the mechanical room from 10x10 to say 9x13 just to break up the modes there. seems weird but if that room is attached to the building…
seaweed, 3 January 2011The present state is that the footings are in and the slab(s) will be poured in the spring after framing etc.(concrete costs in winter are outrageous) The mech room has…
seaweed, 6 January 20112(two) topics with questions comin at ya.... Windows- what are your thoughts on quad pane windows with different thicknesses of glass, one being plexi glass for the…
seaweed, 6 January 2011Diffusion- In the main rec room(see pic) i want to start designing some form of diffusion for the ceiling. Seems to me i can frame the inner ceiling leaf into diffusion…
gullfo, 6 January 2011assuming the ceiling is doing it's isolation thing and is effectively a live ceiling (acoustically), i'd consider trapping the peak ala super chunk and some slats…
seaweed, 6 January 2011Do the slats lay on top of the superchunk? Does the space behind the slats(superchunk area) need to be sealed at the slat edges? I like the plan in your pic best. But i…

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seaweed, 23 January 2011I'm trying to figure the best way to do the ceiling in the main rec room. Is there a way to calculate what kind of performance i would get from this set up... -2 layers…
seaweed, 24 January 2011This is what i have so far as a best option http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/tests/pdf/E2-c.pdf The 2 layers 5/8ths dw go on the trusses, then wood blocks on top of the…
seaweed, 18 February 2011Does this work, or could it be done better? I want to avoid putting drywall on the outside of the outer wall obviously but am i in danger of a 3 leaf system here with…
seaweed, 24 February 2011No you lost me again. The outer wall is the shell of the building, the inner wall is the secondary steel stud wall for sound purposes only. Does the middle layer of…
gullfo, 26 February 2011ok, let's re-start... outer wall sheathing attached to outer wall studs per code. BETWEEN the outer wall studs are 2-3x layers of drywall held in place with cleats. use…
seaweed, 26 February 2011Glen, i really appreciate your help. But this just is not making sense to me. Is there a picture you could point me to? I have several books on the subject and have been…
seaweed, 27 February 2011Ok i get it. New concept to me, but it makes sense. I ordered the book tonight. Thanks for the tip Glen. Although, are we not stopping the needed airflow from the…

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xSpace, 27 February 2011In a typical decoupled framing assembly, this would be what your wall section will look like...please imagine that the insulation is already in the stud cavities on both…
seaweed, 27 February 2011From what i understand the building wrap breathes outward only in order to let moisture in the wall out. The vapor barrier goes on the hot side of the wall (inside) and…
xSpace, 27 February 2011Well, what makes you think there is moisture in the the interior of the wall? Moisture is a product of air infiltration which is why it is such a demanding aspect of…
seaweed, 27 February 2011Ok, lets say this is accepted as cool(and dry :wink: ) Rather than cut strips of drywall and add to the inside of the studs, how about just layering drywall on the…
Soundman2020, 28 February 2011You don't need to, since you won't be using it on its own. All that really matters is the mass. Cement board is about 3 or 4 times the density of OSB, and twice the…
seaweed, 28 February 2011I think Canwell and Hardie have merged now. Cement board siding crossed my mind and is an option for the exterior. I wonder about the fact that it isn't a totally sealed…
seaweed, 1 March 2011On the ceiling. I talked with the rep at Kinetic sound control today. With these clips http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/wave/index.aspx and hat channel and 2 layers of…
xSpace, 2 March 2011If an arbitrary number, or a number assigned to a specific assembly rather, is assigned then it is assigned only to that assembly. In your case the ceiling/roof has been…
Soundman2020, 2 March 2011Huh? :shock: :?: Sorry, but that makes no sense at all! The final ceiling will be at exactly the same height, no matter how you support it. The air gap and mass both…

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seaweed, 3 March 2011I have read this post several times and still can't quite 'get' where you are coming from. Ok i am trying to learn here. I notice some long time pros around here tend to…
xSpace, 4 March 2011What you are suggesting is a ceiling assembly and a wall assembly. What you should be trying to approach is a ceiling/wall assembly that has the same air cavity rather…
seaweed, 6 March 2011What about a 1-2 layers of drywall on the trusses, clips/HT on top of that layer and then 2 layers on the clips/HT, Even thought the airspace isn't the same width as the…
Soundman2020, 6 March 2011If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting attaching drywall directly to the trusses, then putting RSIC clips plus hat channel directly on the drywall, then more…
seaweed, 7 March 2011I should be able to do my sound tests this week. That should help decide on the framed ceiling or not. In the mean time, any suggestions for a simple interior roof…
seaweed, 9 March 2011Sound Test done! Let me know if this isn't comprehensive enough i have the gear one more day. I used 2 Yamaha wedges with 15" 's and horns. I place them inside the…
gullfo, 9 March 2011agreed, having an understanding of how your terrain carries the sound is good. if you get the chance to then test with the doors and windows closed, it will give you…
seaweed, 9 March 2011Back to the way the ceiling on clips and hat track connect with the inner wall.... Would i be ok to plan to install the whole ceiling- trusses/clips/ track/ 5/8's…
gullfo, 9 March 2011layout the rooms carefully and have the ceiling drywall conform to the room layout so you have gaps where you need it to avoid coupling the rooms. the walls, assuming…
seaweed, 14 March 2011Here is where i have it to dimension wise. My reasons for these dimensions and layout are mixed. They mostly come from how i like to work, sight lines, what i have read…
seaweed, 18 March 2011Thanks Andre, i have quite a bit of reading on what both designs are(mhoa,RSD Newell), what i am after from you guys is YOUR opinions as you are the ones who have the…

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cadesignr, 23 March 2011Ok guys. I respectfully offer my apology to Andre. My only defense is I have a problem with what "appears" as condencending dialog. Perhaps Andre doesn't see it that…
seaweed, 23 March 2011I would like the ceiling to be at least 12 feet, i have up to ~18' strait across the flat and another 2 over that in a peak. It says in the NARAS paper "No two room…
Soundman2020, 23 March 2011Sepmeyer 1! One of the best in the book. :) Peak??? so you have an angled ceiling? Then ratios are out the window... they only apply to rectangular rooms. If your room…
Soundman2020, 23 March 2011Lows are not directional, sure, in the sense that they wrap around objects that are much smaller than themselves, but the wave fronts still travel and expand in the same…
xSpace, 24 March 2011Hell Andre, if you would have called fitZ an over bearing forum hog, I would have taken issue with that too:) You are a talented man fitZ....your seem to look until your…

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Soundman2020, 24 March 2011The problem I'm talking about is not reflection of the lows back to the mix position, but reflection of the mids and highs back to the mix position. It seems like…
seaweed, 24 March 2011My thoughts were -That the live room is isolated from the CR by a MAM double wall, (then it retains its room within a room concept). -Floors are separate 4" insulated…
xSpace, 24 March 2011Well, see that is a barb. If that doesn't translate well, it means a poke...kind of what he was accused of. Fitz is a valued contributor and has mad skills in designing,…
seaweed, 26 March 2011Guys/gals, Allow me be clear on a couple points if you will: - I would like very much for this thread to remain as lean as possible, and by lean i mean strictly about…
seaweed, 28 March 2011Sorry to be slow, but his is not clear to me, in fact your posts have totally confused me. On one post you suggest an angled ceiling and on the other you say it will…
xSpace, 28 March 2011Sorry to be slow, but his is not clear to me, in fact your posts have totally confused me. On one post you suggest an angled ceiling and on the other you say it will…
Soundman2020, 29 March 2011Exactly like Brien said: You are talking about a totally DIFFERENT kind of ceiling angling. As I said several times already, if you start with a simple ceiling that runs…
seaweed, 29 March 2011Stuart, I need you to confirm that you understand that this building is built. It is a shell with an angled ceiling. It's already there, the angled ceiling. Tell me you…
seaweed, 29 March 2011On a different note for a second, i have been looking at how to seal this outer wall properly. The trusses come down and rest on the upper plate 2x6 of the outer wall…
seaweed, 29 March 2011I'm feeling like a real blockhead here, i feel like i keep saying i want to do exactly what you guys keep telling me i need to do and then you tell me again that i need…
Soundman2020, 29 March 2011Yes, I do realize that your outer shell is already built. That isn't the issue. The issue is what you are going to do with your INNER leaf ceiling, which might or might…
seaweed, 30 March 2011Thanks for taking the time to write that. My thoughts on the separation from the main room to the CR, kitchen and storage rooms were that the whole wall, 40 feet across…
seaweed, 2 April 2011I met with my air handling guy the other day and we discussed that idea. Above the bathroom looks like a great spot for the unit to live. It can draw from the opposite…
gullfo, 2 April 2011air volume versus air velocity: you want enough air volume to change the air in your rooms roughly 6-8 times per hour. so if you have a 1000ft3 room you want…

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seaweed, 6 April 2011Thanks guys. I have a new employee(commercial painting company) with a serious BO problem. I had a talk with him about how it's not cool for the people/ trades working…
seaweed, 18 July 2011Ok back at it. I need to nail down basic room dimensions, like to the inch, so i can pour the slab and accommodate the big walls in the concrete. Here again is my…
seaweed, 11 August 2011Ok here are some very rough pics of the concept. I am only at pouring the slab right now. What i am looking for is any comments on if i am making any mistakes leaving…
seaweed, 15 August 2011Ok well since no one has anything to say on that, a couple more questions... -What is a wise size of conduit to use to leave myself room for snakes and cables room to…
Soundman2020, 16 August 2011There seems to be a problem with the way you have the front of your room depicted: from the drawings, it looks like you are not using soffits at all to mount your…
seaweed, 16 August 2011Please excuse my rushed pics. Here is a more detailed one. No 3d yet, i'm pretty slow with that stuff, hopefully this will you give a better idea. Notes: For the CR I…
seaweed, 22 August 2011Actually, i went and stood in the previous layout and it feels too small width wise, if i got a longer console i would be messed up. I added 2 feet on the sides, now i…
seaweed, 22 August 2011I know, nothing too serious, and kinda messy, but, Well, perhaps i am wrong, but given high's travel in strait lines, that would be the path they would follow from the…
seaweed, 23 August 2011This is the best i have at the moment,i'm horrible with SU. The purple thing is the Vox/utility/ upper booth. It will look out over the main room. Under it is just a…
Soundman2020, 23 August 2011Several questions: Why are your speakers no longer in the center of the soffits, where they have to be in order to work properly? Why have you removed the rear corners…
BriHar, 23 August 2011Regarding your attempt at ray-tracing, besides the excellent 'splanation from Stuart, trying to do anything like this by hand with partially curved and very inexact…
xSpace, 23 August 2011"trying to do anything like this by hand with partially curved and very inexact lines is absolutely futile." That isn't what is happening here. The poster actually…
seaweed, 23 August 2011Thanks Brihar for you comments. If you look closely you will see protractor lines under the hand drawn ones. But Stuarts' point is well taken. I am aware of the mirror…
seaweed, 23 August 2011From Stuart "Why are your speakers no longer in the center of the soffits, where they have to be in order to work properly?" It's something i have not studied enough yet…

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seaweed, 23 August 2011Stuart, i found a very helpful post you made on this thread... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15658&p=110594&hilit=distance+from+the+speaker#p110594 A "soffit" (more correctly…
xSpace, 24 August 2011I do not know of a mirror of incident feature within sketchup. When a ray comes out of a 30 degree angled wall and hits a barrier that is @ a 22 degree across the room,…
Soundman2020, 24 August 2011You still seem to be missing the point about ray tracing: The speaker does not produce just a single ray! It produces a cone full of millions of rays, all going in…
BriHar, 24 August 2011I don't think you understood the method I was referring to. It requires no physical mirror and can be done completely in Sketchup. I've found this method to be very…
BriHar, 25 August 2011:shock: That hurts my head! I know it is often said here that acoustics seem to sometimes follow a logic of their own, but this seems to go against everything learned in…
seaweed, 25 August 2011If i have a 2x6 outer wall strapped with 2x3(on end)(all filled with pink insulation) and then an interior 2x4 wall (with pink FG insulation)with a total of a 3.5 inch…
xSpace, 26 August 2011No principles at work and by the way, AGAIN, this is not acoustics we are talking about. The ray started from a 30 degree angle wall and hit the 45 degree wall. I…
seaweed, 27 August 2011So essentially the logical path of ray travel, though some rays may take that route, is of no use at all, is that your point? Because rays travel in a cone or some…
Soundman2020, 27 August 2011I don't agree: in any elastic collision, angle of reflection is always = angle of incidence, even for waves. A wavefront can be viewed as a group of particles (because…
seaweed, 27 August 2011Ok so then if i wanted to keep the soffit mounted speaker design on the front wall, the 60 degree angle, and i also want to be at the 38% line, but i don't want to be 10…

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Soundman2020, 28 August 2011Personally, I'd change the speaker angle... Keep them in the middle of the soffit, but angle the entire soffit a bit more. --------- EDITED TO ADD: Since originally…
Soundman2020, 28 August 2011To get an idea of what I mean, imagine that your speaker soffits are actually doors with their hinges next to the window they aren't REALLY like that, of course! Its…
xSpace, 29 August 2011Rays are like the RoadRunner. They are short and fast and hit things quick. But every time it hits something, a hard boundary, it will lose energy that departs to the…
seaweed, 2 September 2011I think it did, my main concern is that i have to move the listening position forward and end up sitting on the power and xlr runs junctions (in the floor) which i…
seaweed, 10 October 2011It's a long way from 'letting you know how everything worked out'. I hope to have the building warm, and the CR and bathroom finished by next spring though, so keep…
seaweed, 28 March 2012Hey everyone, long time no yack. So i have a question regarding connecting the inner double wall to the ceiling. -If the outer wall is the frame of the building and the…
Soundman2020, 28 March 2012I don't understand why you'd want to do that! The entire concept of fully-decoupled MSM "room-in-a-room" is that there is no contact at all between the inner and outer…