Im moving into a new house and i have a room which I would like to use as a drum room :shot: . I'm completely new to acoustic treatments, so knowing this is coming I have been reading this forum as well as others, trying to make a game plan that will work on a budget. The goal is adequate sound isolation. I want to do a decent job, but it doesn't need to be 100% sound proof. As long as I can play in the room without bothering anyone else in the house, that's fine.
This will NOT be a recording studio or anything of the sort. I simply want a room that has a fair degree of isolation to keep the sound out of the rest of the house. Neighboring houses are a good 20ft or so from the room, and while I know drums are loud and there IS a window, Im not so concerned with keeping the sound from getting outside as I am with keeping it from getting to the rest of the inside of the house. My main concern is low end isolation, as its the bass that always travels and seems to be heard down the block! So, some details....
budget: $2000 CAN, give or take a couple hundred. less ideally.
room size: 15ft x 10ft x 8ft (height)
build: wood stud w/ single layer of 5/8" drywall (guessing, i don't live there yet)
volume: metal drummer at times, jazz drummer at times. might be accompanied by a guitar occasionally, so i think standard live jam levels are around 110dB? that's probably a safe assumption.
This room is currently finished. Its in a basement, but 1 wall is above grade with a window. It has a concrete floor with hardwood over-top. Im assuming there is no insulation between rooms/walls since they are internal (except the above motioned window wall). there's 1 regular wooden door that separates the room from the rest of the house. Since the house is a split level, and the stairs are directly outside the drum room door, there are really no other walls that will prevent sound from traveling up and into the rest of the house.
I DO NOT want to do any demo here, with the exception of the small closet which is in the corner. That should be easy enough to tear down and patch up. That said, based on what I've read, GreenGlue is my route of choice so far, but i posted here hoping i could get some insight on how to build up the layers. Using the calculator on the GG site, my room is about 550sqFt (including the ceiling), and I'd need 3 cases (or 2 pails) to do 2 tubes per panel. That runs me $500ish for just the GG for 1 additional layer of drywall, or slightly more money if I go with 2 pails (though then I would probably have extra as 1 pail apparently covers 350 sqFt).
I keep reading that mass is a big factor in isolation, so i would not be adverse to adding 2 additional layers or drywall (for a total of 3), if it will make a significant difference. Though Im thinking that is starting to push the budget. I've also read that sound doesn't like traveling through materials of different densities, so 2 additional layers would be a good opportunity to exploit this fact. Is this something that can be done by using 2 different thickness of drywall (5/8" + 1/2"), or should I mix it up with say, a layer of plywood + a layer of drywall? I know drywall is usually cheaper than plywood sheets, but I wasn't sure if the actual material needed to change in order to take advantage of the varying density factor.
Also, if Im going to do 2 additional layers, I know it would be ideal to use the 2 tubes of GG approach behind each, but keeping the budget in mind would I be foolish to only use 1 layer behind each? Or perhaps 1 layer behind the 1st, and 2 layers behind the second... this is obviously better, but how much better for the extra money it will cost is the question. Or if I end up buying 2 pails, could I do 1 pail per layer? This probably equates to about 1.5 tubes per/panel.
So really its just a matter of all the various combinations and possibilities and which will yield the best results for the price. Or, maybe Im completely wrong and someone can suggest a completely different approach?
For the window I plan to build a simple window-plug built out of the remaining wall supplies. A few layers of drywall and some GG, and a little handle to put in the window frame whenever I play.
for the door I will add a seal around it, a sweep on both sides, and upgrade to a solid door. Though this is probably all I can do, aside from maybe hanging an absorber on the door inside the room. And that's IF there's room left in the budge for a door upgrade. Im thinking there won't be right off the bat. That part will probably come later. But a chain is only as strong as its weakest link... is it worth going to all the trouble with the walls if the door can pose such a big problem? I guess every little bit helps.
And of course, acoustic sealant around all the additional drywall panels, and any other cracks I find.
Im assuming I will need to make some slight alterations to the electrical outlets, to compensate for the added wall thickness. Should anything be done to seal them in any way? I remember seeing some sort of flexible putty that someone wrapped around the electrical boxes, but that was while the wall was still being built and it was completely exposed. I doubt I would be able to do that with the walls in place. Would acoustic sealant around the edges of the outlet do anything to help?
In addition to the wall treatment, I planned on building 4 corner bass traps (1 for each corner), as well as a number of broadband absorber panels, but that's IF they will improve the isolation factor. I've yet to come across anything that tells me if these traps are only good for improving in-room acoustics (like in a studio situation), or if they do anything to keep the sound inside the room and improve isolation. If someone could shed some light on that, that would be great. If they don't improve isolation, ill save my money and either skip em, or just build less of them. I've currently priced out OFI 48 3", and $150 should get me all I need to do the corners with some extra left over for a few broadband panels. This should give a nice mix of absorptionfor highs, mids, and lows, if my understanding of them is correct. But again, these are additions if there's room left after the walls, as that is where the majority of the budget will go Im sure.
So, i think that's about as thorough a description as I can give of my plan, my level of understanding, and the areas Ii'd like cleared up. Thanks for reading, I know it was a bit long! I look forward to some insight!
Drum room: Isolation improvement?
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 15034.
That budget is tight at best. Window upgrade is expensive. You proboaly do not have to do the walls against the basment walls. The weak pioints are the ceiling and doorways.
Mixing mass in a leaf is of no acoustic advantage. Use multiples of the cheapest per weight material. 15 mm +15 mm is fine. You could spend a significant amount of the money on Green Glue. Think ~$1.25/ft^2.
The biggest expense/construction is an effective ceiling. Light weight ceilings are lousy at LF isolation, period.
Andre
Thanks Andre. to clarify, I dont intend to upgrade the window, as I dont care if sound escapes to the outside a bit.
Good call and not needing to do the outside facing wall, and thanks for clarifying on the mixing of materials.
As far as the ceiling, I dont recall how it seemed to be constructed as I have only been in the room twice, during visits with the realtor, and was more concerned with size and dimensions. Assuming its a drywalled ceiling (pretty sure thats what I remember), is adding layers effective there?
... oh and I just noticed you're in Hamilton! Hey neighbor!
Good day neighbour. Eh!
The ceiling construction is probably close to the figure on pdf page 70 of IR 811 the following several pages detail common improvement methods used, with fig 73 showing a summary of the Transmission Loss (TL) of the various floors. Notice how all them have poor TL at 50 HZ, and the construction with the greatest STC improvement has teh worst TL at 50 Hz!
Whisperclips/ RSIC clips etc are around $5 each and do nothing for the construction resonance, which is what the 50 Hz dip in TL is caused by.
I do not know if you overlooked what I wrote, but you also have to isolate the door. A sold door and seals can easily be $1,000. Figure half of that if you are a good builder.
You have not aske specifically, but highly recommende is to buy Rod's 2nd edition of his book Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros. It will help you greatly with isolation.
Andre
hmm, Im starting to wonder if Im in over my head as far as trying to improve the room under a reasonable budget. Im wondering if I should just move in 1st, setup and have a whirl at playing and see what sort of sound escapes the room, and how much it can be heard around the house.
Is adding the bass traps and absorber panels going to do anything to help contain the sound in the room and reduce some of the low end transmission?
edit: on the door, is it necessary to replace the seals as well as the door? Can you not add insulating strips to make sure the door seals air tight? Also, is there a specific type of door that works best? Im suprised at the cost of $1000 for a door, unless you included in the price things like building a frame, labour, etc. I was planning on simply replacing the existing door with solid wood, or steel. No good?
No. Bass traps are part of the room treatment. They do nothing at all to isolate the room. Isolation and treatment are two entirely different and unrelated aspects of building as studio.Is adding the bass traps and absorber panels going to do anything to help contain the sound in the room and reduce some of the low end transmission?
If your door is the average type of house door, it is hollow core and therefore pretty useless for isolating, regardless of how good the seals are.edit: on the door, is it necessary to replace the seals as well as the door? Can you not add insulating strips to make sure the door seals air tight?
Yes: A really thick, really heavy, really solid one, with three independent seals all around it. and no holes for handles! :) Take a look at Rod's book for details on how to build your own. That will be a lot cheaper than buying one. - Stuart -Also, is there a specific type of door that works best?
I see, thanks Stuart. Based on what I read, and the DIY walkthroughs on how to build your own bass traps/broad band absorbers, they seemed similar, and since they were called 'absorbers', i thought they might help keep the sound within the room. If they're "trapping" bass, and "abosrbing" sound, I guess its a logical assumption.
The door is almost definitely hollow. I was hoping Andre might know a good local place to get an appropriate solid door.
Ill take a look for this book, but in the mean time if anyone could suggest a plan that would work, that would get me thinking in the right direction. All i know now is that I need a solid door, which was already on my list, and ceilings are problematic unless rebuilt, basically. Is there nothing that can be done to just help the situation? Again, Im not trying to create a perfectly isolated room, just make it better than your standard 4 walls and a door.
Yes, it is logical, and intuitive even, and its common for people to think that way, but it turns out to not be correct. It's one of those "intuitive" things about sound that everyone "knows" to be true, but actually turn out to not be true, because so much about acoustics just isn't intuitive at all! Think of fit this way: A sponge is a really good absorber of water. But you cannot stop water coming out your kitchen tap by putting a sponge over it! Same with bass traps: they are really good absorbers of sound, but you cannot stop sound getting out of your room by lining it with bass traps. But you CAN stop water coming out the tap by putting your thumb over the end and pressing tightly. On the other hand, trying to use your thumb to mop up spilled water probably won't be very effective... :) (OK, that's a very simplified and not very accurate analogy, but it gives you the basic idea: two different problems need two different, diametrically opposed solutions). In reality, materials that are really good for acoustic treatment are also really lousy for acoustic isolation, and vice versa. To isolate a room, you need solid, rigid, massive barriers, such as drywall, glass, thick wood, etc. It has to be dense, solid, and rigid. It is all about mass and flexibility, not about dimensions. So a piece of cardboard can be the exact same size and thickness as piece of glass, but the glass will isolate many, many times better simply because it is far more rigid and far more massive. Isolation works by preventing the sound from getting out of the room. That implies that it keeps the sound in the room. Keeping the sound in the room is not good for the acoustics. If you have the same sound bouncing around inside the room because it cannot get out, that is called "resonance" (or more accurately "reverberation"), and it makes the room sound bad. You don't want too much reverb and resonance in a room. In order to deal with these, you need light, fluffy, soft, thick, flexible absorbent materials, that are good at absorbing sound, but really lousy at stopping it. Hence, things like fiberglass, mineral wool, acoustic foam, and suchlike. Those kinds of things are really good at treating rooms, since they damp the resonance. The bigger they are, the more effective they are down to lower frequencies. So basically there are two steps in creating a studio: First, you isolate it which means keeping the sound in and making it sound bad. Then you treat it by absorbing the sounds that are "making it sound bad". In simple terms, the treatment compensates for the isolation. The best possible studio would be one that has no walls or ceiling at all, such that all of the sound leaves and never comes back: Such a studio would require no treatment at all. But since that is rather impractical ( :shock: ) we do have to put walls around studios to isolate them, and that creates the need for treatment. Yes, there are certain things you can do in designing those walls that will help to reduce their negative effects, but you will always need some kind of treatment.I see, thanks Stuart. Based on what I read, and the DIY walkthroughs on how to build your own bass traps/broad band absorbers, they seemed similar, and since they were called 'absorbers', i thought they might help keep the sound within the room. If they're "trapping" bass, and "abosrbing" sound, I guess its a logical assumption.
Pretty much anything large, solid and dense will work as a door. You can built it up from layers or MDF, plywood, solid wood, etc. Even lead sheeting and steel plate are sometimes suggested as good layers to include in the "sandwich" of materials that you use to make a good door. It will be very heavy, and will therefore need something tough to hold it up, such as heavy duty hinges, oversize mounting screws, tough jambs, etc. But if you are on a tight budget and don't need a lot of isolation (how much DO you need?), you could probably go with something simple like an ordinary 4cm solid core door (should be available at your local Home Depot or equivalent), and maybe add an extra layer of plywood screwed to one side. Two independent seals around the entire perimeter should give you a reasonably good air-tight seal. That should do the job for your kind of application. - Stuart -but in the mean time if anyone could suggest a plan that would work, that would get me thinking in the right direction. All i know now is that I need a solid door, which was already on my list, and ceilings are problematic unless rebuilt, basically. Is there nothing that can be done to just help the situation?
Great. Thanks again Stuart. I figured Home Depot would have solid doors, I just wasnt sure if they were applicable to this sort of situation. Could you please just clarify what you mean by "two independent seals around the entire perimeter"? I have used weather stripping on a door before and lined the entire thing where the door contacted the jamb/frame (sorry if Im using the wrong term), and it made a big difference as far as air drafts. However, since the door only contacts the jamb/frame on 1 side, Im confused as how you could double the seals.
I plan on going to pick up the book tonight after work. Hopefully that will give me a better grip on the concepts. Im reading online as well, but Im sure this book will be more direct at what Im trying to achieve.
Its hard to say how much isolation I need as I've only been in the house twice. I used to practice with my old band at my dads house years ago. We would play in the basement, with no door. If i went upstairs, into 1 of the bedrooms, and close the regular house door, it was still audible, but not to the point of being a nuisance. Granted, that house had concrete floors. Im quite sure the house Im moving too only has joists between the drum room, and the rooms above (directly above will be an office).
So, while I cant give you an answer like "I need to reduce 38.5dB of sound", I can say I just want to keep sound to a reasonable level outside the room. So you could watch TV at a normal volume and not feel you are straining to hear it over the racket Im making.
Also, thanks for the analogy with the sponge. I get it now. So I will probably still want to build some bass traps and absorbers for the room when its done, regardless of what route I end up taking. Im not shooting for great acoustics... again, this is NOT a recording room, just a quiet room 8)
Once you get Rod's book you'll see how to do that, but the basic idea is that your door is not a single flat surface going into one jamb, but rather TWO flat surfaces mating with TWO jambs. TO do that, you add a sheet of plywood on top of the door surface, on that face that closes into the existing jamb, but you cut it a bit smaller than the jamb. In other words, it sticks out beyond the existing jamb, without touching it. The first seal goes in that gap, between the original door surface and the original jamb. Then you add a second jamb, which is LARGER than the existing jamb, and put the second seal on that one, so that it snugs up tight against the plywood. It's much harder to describe in words than it is to understand form looking at a diagram! The seal has to go all round the door, on all four sides, of course: left, right top and bottom. It's easier to buy a commercial seal for the floor part than to try to build your own. - Stuart -Could you please just clarify what you mean by "two independent seals around the entire perimeter"? I have used weather stripping on a door before and lined the entire thing where the door contacted the jamb/frame (sorry if Im using the wrong term), and it made a big difference as far as air drafts. However, since the door only contacts the jamb/frame on 1 side, Im confused as how you could double the seals.
oh I understand what you mean now with the 2 seals. Yes, this makes sense.
I've emailed the GG people to get their 2 cents on the situation as well, as far as what they think will yield acceptable results.
? I posted the price of Green Glue. It is not within your budget. Green Glue DOES NOT improve the TL at the system resonance significantly! On the Green Glue test data page look at the tests for double 5/8 drywall as an example. Without Green glue the TL at 63 Hz is 22 dB while with Green Glue it is 23 dB. Several hundreds of dollars, if not a thousand, for a 1 dB improvement in the most difficult range to control. AndreI've emailed the GG people to get their 2 cents on the situation as well, as far as what they think will yield acceptable results.
Sorry Andre, I know you posted the GG cost right off the bat, but Im calculating total costs, not per square foot, just because its easier for me to think in whole numbers. I probably didn't immediately figure you meant "its too expensive".
The GG Calculator tells me to do a room my size with 2 tubes per sheet would be 3 cases, or $525. Or, 2 pails, which is $530, and then I could use more per sheet. Lets just round up to $600. Granted this is US, but with the dollar so close to PAR these days, I dont think the cost will be too far off. There is also a company in Mississauga that sells it, so I could pick it up in person and save on shipping.
One of the GG reps got back to me and said 2 layers, with 1 tube per sheet would be a sigificant improvement, so $600 would do the whole room at 1 tube per sheet... maybe a little more if I go the pail route. add $400 for drywall, and ill be generous and say $500 for a new door... thats $1500, which is under budget. Have I forgot to factor in something? Sure there will be small miscellaneous costs, but between tape, mud, and paint, i dont think Im in for an additional $500.
Im confused then why so many people on home theater forums are raving about GG... that they can play their movies loud in their rooms and not bother everyone else in the house. Do you think its completely useless? If my goal was to ONLY reduce low end completely, I think most products would be deemed "unsuitable" because they dont stop 50hz 100% dead. Unless I was building from scratch and had a massive budget, I would never expect to completely stop ALL low frequency sounds. Considering my modest goals, I simply want to minimize them to some degree.
I've looked at the GG data sheets several times. Apparently with double drywall on the source side, and single drywall on the other side, you can achieve STC 52, which seems more than adequate. According to wikipedia...
"STC 50 - Very loud sounds such as musical instruments or a stereo can be faintly heard; 99% of population not annoyed"
...so with 3 layers (more mass, more dampening from additional GG), I can only assume this would be increased, even if only by 1 or 2 points. And sure, while it might not do much for the TL and very low frequencies, its doing a great job for everything else.
To be clear, are you recommending to NOT go this route?
""STC 50 - Very loud sounds such as musical instruments or a stereo can be faintly heard; 99% of population not annoyed"
Not true. Where did you get this information from? The minimum for a party wall between residential units is 50....have you every lived in an apartment?
69% of the population is pretty annoyed...
i think he referenced wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_transmission_class 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot. :| on the green glue topic and budget and ideas - i think if you cannot do much structurally, then you should consider adding the additional mass and GG and work on either swapping out the door with a heavy isolating door with seals, and blocking any windows with plugs, and hope for the best. if you can do proper construction, then you should make every effort to do so since drums are loud instruments and unless you really can get the levels down by luck, then your better option is getting the sound level down using skill...""STC 50 - Very loud sounds such as musical instruments or a stereo can be faintly heard; 99% of population not annoyed" Not true. Where did you get this information from? The minimum for a party wall between residential units is 50....have you every lived in an apartment? 69% of the population is pretty annoyed...
Exactly! And the remaining 46% come from Wikipedia... :) Back on topic! I agree with Glenn: If you can afford the GG, then it is probably worth it, as every little bit helps. Plus, if I'm not wrong, Andre was talking about how GG affects TL right at the MSM resonance of the wall: not necessarily at higher frequencies. So the secret (as always) is to keep your MSM resonance as low as possible, which implies extra mass on the leaves and deeper air gaps. Get as much mass as you can on your leaves, and GG too, if your budget goes that far. On the other hand, and extra layer of 5/8" all around reportedly gives you roughly the same increase in TL as putting GG in there... :) - Stuart -75% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Thanks guys. Glenns comment has basicaly been my plan all along, but I wanted some pro input before I pulled the trigger on it. Im not shooting for 100% isolation. As long as someone else can be in the next room and feel like there was nothing more than a paper wall between them and the source, I will be happy. I dont expect to reduce the TL of the lows a huge degree... thats just the nature of the beast in this situation.
As for the wikipedia thing, ya I did a search and that was the 1st link that seemed reasonable. but as we all know "People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that!", and also that "Facts are meaningless. You cant use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!". but, from another site...
STC 40-50: Loud speech faintly heard. (To me this would be like party level noise where everyone is tryin to talk over eachother.)
STC 50-60: Loud sounds heard faintly or not at all.
and from another site...
STC 50 : Loud speech is not audible.
so... i think I roughly know what to expect.
I got the book recommended last night and read a few of the chapters that seemed relevant to my situation. I now understand the leaf system, and the the door suggestions that were being made. His best case scenario was the double room/2 leaf system, which I wont be achieving, so I wont even entertain that idea.
After a few emails with the GG rep, he gave me a breakdown basically like this...
1 sheet and 2 tubes will yield +12 STC points, but usually more like 6-8 in the real world, which is equivalent to a 50% percieved reduction in sound. if this was the situation, that would be good, but if i rework things a bit, I can do better.
2 additional sheets with 1 tube behind each would be over 100% as effective as the standard 1 sheet, 2 tube, but I use the same amount of GG, so that cost doesn't go up, aside from more drywall. I can make the project more effective, without doubling the price.
If i stretch the budget just a bit more, I could buy enough for 1 tube per sheet, but add a 3rd new layer on the outside of the room. This would double the leaf layers inside and out, giving me 3 total layers inside, and 2 layers outside.
I also figured I could blow in some insulation between the walls as Im quite sure they're just empty right now. I discussed these optoins with him, explained my goals of wanting to make a quieter room, not a 100% sound proof murder chamber, and he said this route will definitely achieve that goal. Does anyone agree?
Of course I will also get the solid door, build the double seal, and do something for the window... though again, Im not too concerned about the window as I dont care if sound escapes into the yard.
now just to reply a bit to Gullfo... lets just say hypothetically I decided to tear down and start again, and do a double room. How much air space would I need to make this effective?
id also need to weigh the costs of making an entire new frame, and drywalling that. I havent looked into this cost because it's not something i can quantify without bringing in a builder and asking him for an estimate, which I cant do until I live there. Im tryin to make a plan now, ahead of time.
So, I cant realy find reliable figures online, but how much would it cost to frame the room, and drywall it? Probably 500sqFt. Id have to tear down the existing inner drywall layer, throw up some insulation, build the new wall however far in from the existing, insulate, drywall, add door. with just adding 1 sheet, on the new frame, according to the book thats STC 57 right there.
the main reason i DONT want to demo is the hardwood floors that are in there now. im no builder but im almost certain that if I had to add an inner wall, the base of the wall frame would need to be drilled into the floor, and the wife would sh1t a brick if I told her thats what I was doing.
so ya, hypothetically... what would THIS addition cost. then I can compare it to the GG route.
thanks guys!
Eikon:
You posted you want drum sound controled. The biggest problem with drums is the low end.
The biggest problem most people have when studying sound isolation, is that it is dependent on the weakest link, and that as one reduces the level through one surface, the limiation becomes the weakest link.
STC is designed for speech range isolation one number rating. Music has, you know it, significant low frequency energy.
Home theatres when run very loud can run 90-95 dBA typically. A drum kit loud can do 110 dBA!
There are numerous wall and ceiling constructions that give 30 dB+ isolation at low frequencies. A wall (a ceiling is just a wall turned on its side acoustically) that is effective at low frequencies will automatically have sufficient isolation higher frequncies due to the physics involved.
We are telling you the truth so that you are not disappointed with your results.
Andre
Oh i know you're telling me the truth, I just think you think Im expecting complete isolation when Im not. I know the low ends will escape. I've been drumming for 16+ years and Ive played in lots of different rooms in lots of different buildings, and I know theyr loud.
So, as I said above, Im willing to entertain the idea of building the 2nd wall if everyone thinks thats the better plan, if its not going to quadruple the budget. So I need a rough idea for the cost of that so I can compare it to the GG route. Andre, you probably have a good idea of this roughly since we live in the same area basicaly. You probably have a good grasp of the local costs.
Great! :shot: Start working on your budget. The biggest problem most people have when building spaces is not plannng properly, including the budget. Study my signature line. 8) You are doing it right. :lol: AndreOh i know you're telling me the truth, I just think you think Im expecting complete isolation when Im not.
oh im studying! thats why im asking 1000 questions now. i have a month lead time to get my game plan together and start gathering supplies. but i just dont want to come across as being ignorant or naive or mr.know-it-all (clearly im not). i know this is new to me and im trying to learn and be open minded, but also be realistic with what i can do with my time and money. i realy do appreciate everyone's feedback so far.
In Rod's book, when he's talking about ceilings, he shows a diagram where he's added strips of drywall to the bottom of the floor, between the joists, to add more mass. so conceivably, if you can do that with a ceiling, you can do it with walls as well... no? If i end up going the double room route, and I remove the drywall on the existing walls, would it be a good idea to install more drywall between the joists before adding in the insulation?
Im giving more serious consideration to the double room idea now. In one of his diagrams he shows a 1" airspace. so thats about 8" of space of each side of the room for a new wall Id guess. In this case, Id lose a foor and a half, which tightens me in to about 13ft across, and thats starting to be a tight fit for my kit.
He also seems to like the metal framing option... light gauge especially. If i went this route though, and wanted to do double drywall layering for extra isolation, would a light gauge frame be able to support that kind of weight? or is it even necessary... just overkill for my goals? And also, is it ok to join a metal frame to a wooden frame?.... i assume they will need to come together around the door (i may just build the back wall solid and forget the window entirely).
Or, i could do 2 doors and have no attachment points at all, so the room is completely isolated, except for the floor its sitting on. is this possible? does the inner room NEED to be attached to anything but the floor? And if i did this, i know its still probably recommended to do solid core doors, but if i just used a solid core door on the inner wall, and left the existing door (hollow core) in place... would that be acceptable?
Yes you can do that. Yes.In Rod's book, when he's talking about ceilings, he shows a diagram where he's added strips of drywall to the bottom of the floor, between the joists, to add more mass. so conceivably, if you can do that with a ceiling, you can do it with walls as well... no? If i end up going the double room route, and I remove the drywall on the existing walls, would it be a good idea to install more drywall between the joists before adding in the insulation?
Just enough not to touch. Do you need double stud on all walls? A drawing will help at this point.Im giving more serious consideration to the double room idea now, though Id still like to know how much space i need to leave between them... just enough so the top and bottom plates aren't touching? In this case, Id lose a foot each way, which tightens me in to 14ft across, and thats starting to be a tight fit for my kit.
Light weight will hold the mass. It is not okay to attach the wood and metal.He also seems to like the metal framing option... light gauge especially. If i went this route though, and wanted to do double drywall layering for extra isolation, would a light gauge frame be able to support that kind of weight? or is it even necessary... just overkill for my goals? And also, is it ok to join a metal frame to a wooden frame?.... i assume they will need to come together around the door (i may just build the back wall solid and forget the window entirely).
What is acceptable? It would be a waste of money to not do both doors solid. Do not forget the cost of seals for both doors regardless. The overall price difference to both solid is not that great in the overall budget. Did I mention working on the budget? I forgot to write it earlier, congratulations on getting Rod's (fantastic) book. Keep the ideas and questions coming.Or, i could do 2 doors and have no attachment points at all, so the room is completely isolated, except for the floor its sitting on. If i did this, i know its still probably recommended to do solid core doors, but if i just used a solid core door on the inner wall, and left the existing door (hollow core) in place... would that be acceptable?
^Im not sure what this refers to. If building an additional wall inside the existing room, isnt it a double stud wall be default simply because theres 2 studs?... 1 on the old wall, 1 on the new? And if I go metal frame... i guess its not called a stud at that point? I guess I could knock together a drawing, but I think i would basically just be drawing a box inside a box! Yes, Id add seals to both doors. I was just wondering if the benefits of the double room were enough on their own with a 1 solid door that a 2nd regular door would just be icing on the cake.Just enough not to touch. Do you need double stud on all walls? A drawing will help at this point.
^ Not OK acoustically because sound will transfer to the rest of the house structure, thus defeating the purpose of a double room? Or not OK structurally cause thats bad practice to mix building materials? or both? Ill consider working on the budget if someone gives me an idea of how much the double room would cost! :) It would be under 550sqFt. I tend to be somewhat handy, so I plan on doing everything I can on my own, and only getting help when I need it. im not above asking for help... otherwise i wouldnt be here. But from what Ive read, assembling metal framing sounds fairly straight forward.Light weight will hold the mass. It is not okay to attach the wood and metal.