Songwriter's Studio *UPDATED 10/28/10*

Thanks! That would be my preferred method, I think. As stated in my post above, I may even be able to keep the back wall inside-out by moving the wall of the amp closet over a bit... Anyone else? I am getting excited to start building (hopefully this weekend).

OK. Based on suggestions I have received, I have tentatively settled on a more-final floor plan and inside-out wall construction. I plan to utilize inside-out walls with 2 layers of sheetrock over the existing layer of homosote. I attach a couple of shots from the revised .skp file, as well as the link to the new model itself (http://idisk.mac.com/s.kilroy//Public/SWStudio.skp). The measurements in the model are as accurate as I could get them. I state again that I am not so good with that program, so please assume I will not be as sloppy when constructing :) Any input/criticisms would be appreciated, especially regarding: 1. Given the use of inside out construction, do I need the angled walls along side the console and to just behind the listening position, or can I just put slats on the straight walls? If the angled walls are better, do I need insulation both on the outer wall and the false angled wall? 2. Does it appear that I have enough bass treatment in the back of the room (given that the room is so small)? 3. Any suggestions for non-permanent sealing techniques for the window in the brick wall (left side of control room, I couldn't get Sketchup to show it properly). Thanks again for all of your help.

sk806 wrote:

1. Given the use of inside out construction, do I need the angled walls along side the console and to just behind the listening position, or can I just put slats on the straight walls? If the angled walls are better, do I need insulation both on the outer wall and the false angled wall?

yes, keep the angled walls, yes, some insulation will be needed behind the slats you want on those walls.

sk806 wrote:

2. Does it appear that I have enough bass treatment in the back of the room (given that the room is so small)?

remember the ceiling and ceiling-wall edges are very useful places for bass trapping as well.

sk806 wrote:

3. Any suggestions for non-permanent sealing techniques for the window in the brick wall (left side of control room, I couldn't get Sketchup to show it properly).

maybe make a massive window plug using 3x 5/8" drywall and 3/4" MDF plate to fit within the window frame with insulation on the window glass side plus any necessary desiccant and caulk and seal it.

1. Given the use of inside out construction, do I need the angled walls along side the console and to just behind the listening position, or can I just put slats on the straight walls?

I'd certainly keep those angled frames, and I'd go with slats on them. Make them into broadband slot walls. (If you were to put drywall on them, you'd have a third leaf, which you DON'T want!) Slats is what you need there, except at the first reflection points, where absorption would be better.

If the angled walls are better, do I need insulation both on the outer wall and the false angled wall?

Not really. You need one or the other, but you don't really need it on both places, as its a slot wall, not an isolation wall. Where you put it changes how it works! :)

2. Does it appear that I have enough bass treatment in the back of the room (given that the room is so small)?

It's looking good to me, for a start, but that slight "kink" in the rear bass trap frame isn't really necessary, and might make your construction harder. It won't do any harm to your bass trapping, so you can leave it there if you like it, but it does add complexity to the build. You might also need more bass trapping elsewhere in the room: Don't forget that the room has 12 corners, not just 4!

3. Any suggestions for non-permanent sealing techniques for the window in the brick wall

Non-permanent bricks? :) Seriously, I'd just build a plug with plenty of mass on it and a couple of separate seals, then screw it in place tightly. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Not really. You need one or the other, but you don't really need it on both places, as its a slot wall, not an isolation wall. Where you put it changes how it works!

you will want insulation on the outer wall to dampen resonances, on somewhere behind the slats for widening the Q there. i'd probably go with mineral wool on the outer wall, and pink insulation in the slat cavity. +1 on straightening the back absorber wall to simplify it. consider making the back wall of the room between the door and the side wall treatment deeper - say 8-10".

you will want insulation on the outer wall to dampen resonances, on somewhere behind the slats for widening the Q there. i'd probably go with mineral wool on the outer wall, and pink insulation in the slat cavity.

He's building inside-out, Glenn, so he was asking about the need to have insulation on both of the frames inside the slot wall, not the cavity and the frame. For him, the "outer wall" that he is talking about is actually the side of the inner leaf that faces the room, or rather the interior of the slot wall. That's what I meant with my comment: you only need one set of insulation in the slot resonator, not two sets. Of course, I absolutely agree that he also needs insulation in the cavity! Also agree with rock wool for the cavity and pink fluffy for the slot wall. - Stuart -

Wow. Thanks so much Stuart and Glenn. This is really helpful. I have adjusted the .skp file to show the straight bass traps and deeper bass trapping on the back wall, and am going to incorporate all of your suggestions re the angled walls and types of insulation, etc. I plan to start with the inside out drywall construction next week!

Hmmmm.... I just noticed something: Your outer-leaf is incomplete! The staircase is actually part of your air gap :shock: It looks like you need another wall right along the edge of the stairs, parallel to the inner-leaf wall that you already show, then continuing along at the same angle as the booth wall, until it meets the outer-leaf wall again. Hope that was clear: reading it over, it doesn't sound very inspiring.... - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Hmmmm.... I just noticed something: Your outer-leaf is incomplete! The staircase is actually part of your air gap :shock: It looks like you need another wall right along the edge of the stairs, parallel to the inner-leaf wall that you already show, then continuing along at the same angle as the booth wall, until it meets the outer-leaf wall again. Hope that was clear: reading it over, it doesn't sound very inspiring.... - Stuart -

Sorry, but I am a bit confused: along which edge of the stairs, the left as you are going down them or the right? Thanks!

Here's a diagram where I have outlined where your outer leaf should be in red. You already have the top, left, and right walls in place, but you are missing the part around the stair well. - Stuart -

Thanks, Stuart! I will add the additional wall.

Soundman2020 wrote:

Here's a diagram where I have outlined where your outer leaf should be in red. You already have the top, left, and right walls in place, but you are missing the part around the stair well.

Not preserved: Outline-outer-leaf.jpg

- Stuart -

Just one question: Should the added wall in red wall be brick, like the rest of the outer leaf (I would guess yes), or can it be a framed wall? Thanks again. Steve

Pictures is what you need here....a sketchup isn't helping....if this is a window and a door area and there is a door and a window installed, then keeping the window and the door closed will also keep the envelope closed. Dig?

Thanks! I do, indeed, dig. Basically, there is a steel fire door at the top of the stairs (no window). I will get some photos of the top of the stairs up soon. I also posted a picture of the window at the front left side of the control room on page 2. As mentioned earlier, I will be sealing this up. In the meantime, I am going ahead with the inside-out wall construction for both rooms, and hopefully will not need to build another wall as Stuart kindly suggested. Fingers crossed...

I am going ahead with the inside-out wall construction for both rooms, and hopefully will not need to build another wall

What else is in that stair well? Electrical conduit? Furnace? Air vents? HVAC? Sump? Drains? You'd need to inspect everything in there and seal it up tight, and you will also need to beef up the floor above you in that area, if you hope to avoid building that wall. Personally, I'd just build the wall and be done with it. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

I am going ahead with the inside-out wall construction for both rooms, and hopefully will not need to build another wall

What else is in that stair well? Electrical conduit? Furnace? Air vents? HVAC? Sump? Drains? You'd need to inspect everything in there and seal it up tight, and you will also need to beef up the floor above you in that area, if you hope to avoid building that wall. Personally, I'd just build the wall and be done with it. - Stuart -

Yeah. Good point. Pretty sure there's nothing, but not 100% sure :) If I do build the wall, can I just build a frame wall, or do I need to go concrete like the rest of the outer leaf? Thanks again for your input. Steve

I'd just frame it and put a couple of layers of 5/8 drywall on it. I don't think you need to go to all the hassle of brick or concrete. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

I'd just frame it and put a couple of layers of 5/8 drywall on it. I don't think you need to go to all the hassle of brick or concrete. - Stuart -

Cool. Thanks.