Small bedroom studio with Big expectations

Dear Mr. Sayer and Distinguished Members First and foremost I would like to express my Great Respect and Admiration for the knowledge and time you so graciously share with other members on this Forum. I consider myself very fortunate in having become a new member and will make every effort to be as professional and straight foward in my posts. As of this writting, I know the Forum's rules and wish to abide by them. Please be patient with me if I missed out on something. This is my very first time in any Forum. ThankYou. I write you in need of guidence in turning my bedroom into an acoustically optimized recording and mixing room which is my main concern followed by working in a pleasent atmosphere where I can write music. I am at the planning stages of the design in being that along side, have been doing acoustic & room construction research mainly on this forum and through books(The Master Handbbok on Acoustics, among others). The room will be used to record live vocals and acoustic guitars. All other instruments (drums, bass, keyboards, etc.) will be recorded using electronic means. The SPL is in the 85-90db range depending on the style of music that is being mixed. The existing Noise Floor in the room averages 38db (room with equipment and drapes drawn) all day and night. The main problem in this room is airplane traffic every 2-3 minutes !. The the Noise Floor then goes up to an average of 51db. Additional notes: 1.-I need to have the option of opening the only window in the room and have access to the closet and storage area. 2.-My ceiling height is 2.80 meters of wich I would prefer to keep the ceiling height at no lower than 2.40 . I have compiled detailed information and attached a set of pictures and graphics of the room in knowing that this will serve as the basis for future references, observations and recommendations that you wish to make. My total budget for this project is USD$1,500.00 At this time I would like to ask you two questions: 1.- Where can I find information on "Correct procedure for making acoustic measurements in a room"?. 2.- Need I make these acoustic measurements with the room empty?. I think I know the answer to this one. In my next post I will be submitting an initial acoustical design layout of what I think would work for me taken all things into consideration. These being acoustics, arquitecture and functionality. And graphs of the acoustical measurements needed to further analize the acoustics of this particular room. In closing.... I wish to Thank You again for this opportunity and do realize that your knowledge and time will be valuable advice in helping me with my project!.

"The main problem in this room is airplane traffic every 2-3 minutes !. The the Noise Floor then goes up to an average of 51db." This is a serious problem and cannot be underestimated. Most of what happens when an airplane flies overhead has nothing to do with the interior of the room. Everything on the exterior of the building becomes more important. Things like: Are you on an upper floor(above ground level)? What kind of exterior does this building have...brick, wood siding, vinyl, etc? Do you have access to the ceiling...your going to need it in effort to circumvent air borne sound? You are going to lose temporarily, with help of a window plug, the use of that window due to the LF from the overhead sonic disturbance. The noise from the airplanes, airborne, is hitting the exterior of the structure, this is what you hear after it flanks through the building and takes that always available path of least resistance. This is a fight that can be lost if it is looked at from the inside of the building. I have a few links to documents related directly to this, but my server is not cooperating at the moment. If you want them, PM me or just reply here. Brien

Hello Brien Thank you so much for your observations!. In my first post (Room Construction & Boundries graph) I included details of the inside of the room with all the construction elements. Before making my first post I studied and kept on studying John's book and other books on room construction & acoustics in trying to be as precise and close to what it is expected of me while posting in the forum. Please see the graphs and pics that are included in my first post. By the way....I can view the graphs quite well on my computers. Are they showing properly on yours?. I need to know this because if I am making them too small I can always correct this problem. Brien I certainly am interested in any documents you may want to share on this matter. I am hungry for information and still have lots to learn. Would you like me to send you a graph that shows the acoustical layout I think would work on my room based on the knowledge I have acquired so far? I wish you an excellent day!. Thank You again

"In my first post (Room Construction & Boundries graph) I included details of the inside of the room with all the construction elements." Two things. Where is that first post? I remember me saying that the >outside< of the structure needs to be addressed. It's like taking a fast ride down a slow street...you can do it in a thin vehicle, but as the odds mount, and if you take that trip long enough, someone is going to hit you. And that is the sound of the airplane...and you have to tell us what kind of car you are in when you are hit? You gettin' this?

Hello Brien Please view the graphs I've include in this new reply wich contain all the information about my room. I gather from what your replies have been so far that I am not posting correctly the pictures and graphs I have sent to do this point. If so, Please accept my Apologies for this and would like to ask, if you could tell me if you are viewing these correctly?. I have seen my previous posts in some friends computer and also family that live in the USA and they all tell me can see the pics and graphs included in them. I do Thank You again for taking the time in responding. wish you an excellent day!

"The the Noise Floor then goes up to an average of 51db" Heck my house is that loud without planes flying over, so this is either an incorrect number or you may be saying that it goes up an average of 51 dB PLUS the existing sound levels? The elevated wood floor...did you build that? I am curious haw you can be so certain about the makeup of this floor/building? Being in the middle of this structure is better than the top floor, so you have that going for you, still, the bottom floor would give you a better start position. The window...you are going to >have< to plug that up. When all the energy from the overhead sound is spreading across this building it is taking the path of least resistance, and it is well known that residential windows( on the average) are just not designed to stop sound. Especially a "slider" type window like you have. Granted having all the concrete, especially if it is as thick as you say, all around you is a big help in reducing the air borne sound of the planes. I think I would plug that window, even if it is a temporary fix just to get an idea of how poor the window is at sound isolation and then I would have to consider that floor as a possible flanking agent. If you can tap on the floor and it sounds hollow this is not a good sound for you. when the airborne sound makes it's way into this structure it is getting into and under that wooden floor. But not knowing exactly how this floor is constructed, I could not be certain without more information.

Hi Brien Thank You for your comments. Allow to be more specific on certain details....My home was built 58 years ago and in an area of the city where earthquakes are most felt. This being the reason why the house has such a reinforced structure. About 5 years ago, the house had significant remodeling, namely the 4 bedrooms on this second floor. At that time I had not considered using this room for recording and mixing. For this reason I know exactly how my room is built and I did participate in putting in the new flooring. The room itself is incredibly quiet(39db average), except for the constant air traffic which raises the noise floor from 39 to 51db average as I stated before. I know that the room's cement slab will have to be my starting point for it does sound hollow (makes a great low frecuency resonator) and is not filled with any kind of absorbent material. I am in the midst of getting proposals to have the floor removed and do it the right way ending up with a decopled floor from the concrete slab and walls. The only window in the room is The Big Offender!. I know that it needs a window plug and this matter will be addressed after I complete the flooring. Brien....Please see attachement on my idea, that I hope, serves as a starting point for the acoustic layout of the room. I have not made any measurements and the drawing is close to scale. It's purpose is to serve as an initial layout. I would greatly appreciatte if you could comment on this. My initial acoustical layout is based on the existing room dimensions, trying to keep as much room space as possible and achieve the correct reverb time in the room. Allow me to ask you 2 questions: 1.- Does this initial acoustic layout seem right to you? 2.- Where can I find info on making acoustical measurements in an empty room? As always I do appreciatte the time and knowledge you share with me. I keep on studying acoustics and room construction for I am truly facinated by the subject and wish, with your help, to have a room that I can be proudly name it as My Studio.

It looks like a good start for your environment, but I am more interested in the isolation of rooms. So there are better suited members here to help in the acoustical aspects of your room. Brien

artman - check out this studio built in a bedroom http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/Hello_Testing.htm

xSpace wrote:

It looks like a good start for your environment, but I am more interested in the isolation of rooms. So there are better suited members here to help in the acoustical aspects of your room. Brien

Thank You Brien for your reply. But please don't leave me as yet for I am still at the planning stages of my bedroom studio and would like very much to have you as one of my expert mentors on the isolation issues. But firstly...I guess I need to have a rough idea on the general layout of the room design in order to start getting into what kind of isolation I need for each element in the acoustical design. Am I correct?. Is this the right order in wich any studio room is planned?. Thank You for replying so fast and as always right on the money!

John Sayers wrote:

artman - check out this studio built in a bedroom http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/Hello_Testing.htm

Dear John... It is an Honor to have the opportunity to say to you that I admire your Forum, your Work, your ending reply Quotes and feel again so welcomed to the forum by your reply. Even though I have been around as a new member of the forum for a short while, before joining I had been doing a lot of research on studio design and construction wich led me to your forum and this particular studio built. The dimensions on this studio apparently come close to my room's dimensions and am interested in learning more on how it was planned and built. My wish in posting my room is to be steared in the right direction on the various stages of planning and constructing thus achieving the best possible results for my studio project. I am continually studying and learning from forum members and other sources, namely books. But as a novice that I am in ths matter, at times my I thinking gets mixed up on the right way to plan and build a studio. I am aware that I need to learn how to walk before attempting to run!. For this reason I have asked questions on my post but have not received an answer to them. Am I running?. John. Thank You so much for your reply and be shure that you have my deepest respect.

artman wrote:

Thank You Brien for your reply. But please don't leave me as yet for I am still at the planning stages of my bedroom studio and would like very much to have you as one of my expert mentors on the isolation issues. But firstly...I guess I need to have a rough idea on the general layout of the room design in order to start getting into what kind of isolation I need for each element in the acoustical design. Am I correct?. Is this the right order in wich any studio room is planned?. Thank You for replying so fast and as always right on the money!

My pleasure. I am not leaving, just giving an open opportunity for better qualified people to further your project. Having John step in is a big thing, to me...safe to say he is qualified ;) I'm around... edit: ".I guess I need to have a rough idea on the general layout of the room design in order to start getting into what kind of isolation I need for each element in the acoustical design. Am I correct?. Is this the right order in wich any studio room is planned?." No sir. Many factors, but let's address the immediate things. You have to evaluate what levels of noise you are trying to stop from coming inside the room and determine what levels of sound you are generating >inside< the room. Your best bet is to get outside of the house and determine what the noise levels are at the most obnoxious...like when the planes are flying over. Then get inside and determine what kind of isolation the existing structure provides. The chances are HIGH that you will be doing the window plug before you do the floor. Reason is it is going to be difficult to get an even sound level inside the room with that window giving away so much of your much needed silence.

Hi Brien Thank You for your reply. As always right on the money. I'll be performing these measurements tomorrow morning. Time when air traffic noise is at its best. Since I have no experience in taking room measurements I need to ask once again, 1.- How should I perform these measurements outside the room?. 1a.- Is it standing with a SPL meter on hand, 1 meter away from the window? 2.- How should I measure from inside the room? 2a.- Again, standing with a SPL meter on hand, 1 meter away from the window?. I know this much. That these measurements need to be made away from reflective surfaces and boundries. I have been trying to get an answer regarding where can I obtain information on how to make acoustical measurements inside a room so I can go ahead and be as serious and professional about all pics and graphs I post but have not yet received an answer. Brien, Please help me!. I am trying hard to follow the forum's common sense issues like: The more effort you put into your questions, the more effort we put in our answers. I keep on studying...but do realize that am in need of some tutoring/guidence. Have an excellent day !!!

Sound insulation testing, that is outside of my ability, but I will explain to you what I understand of it. To establish what the existing ambient sound levels are and what the maximum offending sound levels are you have to take several measurements in several places on both sides of the wall in question. I would recommend using a stand with your microphone so you can get fixed readings with no interference from your body either moving or blocking the signal path. You will want to pick a time of the day when you are certain to some degree that all you are going to be recording will be the ambient levels. I would pick my first place to be as far away from the building as the building is tall. Example being, if the top of your roof measures 25 feet tall then establish a position 25 feet away from the building for your first reading. Make a note of your distance and position relative to the room. As you do these tests you will want to make notes of what the exterior of the building looks like in terms of means of egress or windows, any type of opening that may exist above or below the room you are considering doing your build in. These "holes" or leak areas can contribute to the isolation loss. As a matter of a learning experience, I would continue to move closer towards the room with my fixed microphone in increments of measurement related to the building/room in question. If I had measured my top of ceiling in the room on the second floor to be approximately 16 feet from the ground level, then I would move the mic inward to 16 feet. Take a reading and make notes...making notes that you can keep up with cannot be over stated. Moving inward to a position measuring 8 feet from the building would be my next reading position. My last readings would be maybe from 3 feet and again at 1 foot from the structure. This type of measuring will give you enough information to average all the readings to get an average ambient noise level. The last two readings might help to determine just how much sound the building is actually standing in the way of. Then I would repeat the whole process with the maximum offending sound levels. At the end of the process you will be able to establish what is the ambient noise level and what is the maximum noise level and be able to correct your readings accordingly. Then do the same thing on the inside of the room you are wanting to build in. You may find that being in the dead center of the room is the best starting position. But you do want to take several readings in several different places, and especially within 12 inches of that three slider glass window. ((reference example)If you noted there was a window above the room that measured in from the corner 10 feet and this opening had a total square footage of 15 feet (3 feet wide by 5 feet tall). You can expect levels to raise at these positions in the maximum sound level periods.)

Hello Brien I will be taking measurements by the weekend with SmaartLive using A-weight scale. In the meantime I'll keep on studying forum topics, books and search the Net on "How to make acoustical measurements in a room". Thank You for your quick replies. Have an excellent day!

SIA Smaart Live for Beginners http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/sia_ ... part_1/P1/ Manuals and Video: ftp://ftp.eaw.com/ "Smaart user manuals provide comprehensive product documentation as well as a lot of useful information." http://www.eaw.com/products/software/resource.html

Thank you Brien !

Senior and fellow Members of this Forum... This is but a "Wishing you the Well" note. I planned to make acoustical measurements inside and out of my studio room this weekend and posting the results for all Members to view them in order to gain some valuable feedback as always, on how should I proceeed. Instead, upon indepth reading and searching on our forum and other acoustical forum sites, at this time I find myself hooked on the fact that as I study, "I only know, that I know nothing" fact (philosophically speaking). It feels almost like a middle age crisis (which happens at any age) and feel the need to spend more time in researching before my next post. Even though I own SPL meters and some acoustical measurement software and hardware.......I will be purchasing the Acoustisoft RPlusD (wich includes the "ETF" software created by Acoustisoft, inc. software) by next week. Take the time to study it and then proceed to make acoustical analysis that I know will serve as a Starting Point for the initial acoustical design layout of my room. Until then.......God Bless you all for being so involved in John's Forum Artman