Hello people, I've bought this product: http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/Prod/PID-21022.aspx
My plan is to slightly compress the 120 cm insulation between the 95 cm studs with this plastic product, will this work effectively? Or will the plastic product make the insulation work like "closed cell", not letting air pass towards the airgap to next wall, making it ineffective in this application?
Advice is very welcome!
Please, share your knowledge and experience!¨
Thanks
Ossian
How to fix insulation between studs?
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 13596.
Two things:
1) That looks like plastic sheeting. If you already have a vapor barrier in your wall, using that plastic sheeting might end up creating a second vapor barrier, which is probably not a good idea.
2) Yes, you can compress the insulation a bit without causing any problems, provided that you don't over-do it. I'd use wire mesh, string, plastic strapping tape, or something like that to keep the insulation in place.
That's what I'd do. Perhaps others have a better method.
But the big question is: why do you want to compress it?
- Stuart -
Compressing insulation fails the thermo spec of the product. In heating and cooling terms it's a bad idea.
a total Plastic rap will also defeat the purpose of a inside out wall.
sorry guys but I'm going to disagree with you on this.
Ossian - this is a studio wrapped in plastic - it was how I designed it to be. I like the effect the plastic has on the rooms high end response.
Compressing the insulation really depends on the insulation - you couldn't compress 703 down from 120 - 95 but there are many insulation types that could.
Thank you for that answer, I think I've read somewhere in this forum about a respected guy recommending this technique. The insulation I have is very soft(like 20 kg/m3), making it no problems at all to compress slightly, but do you recommend to compress it to 95 as the frame or to "swell" out from the frame, making it less compressed?sorry guys but I'm going to disagree with you on this. Ossian - this is a studio wrapped in plastic - it was how I designed it to be. I like the effect the plastic has on the rooms high end response. Compressing the insulation really depends on the insulation - you couldn't compress 703 down from 120 - 95 but there are many insulation types that could.
I'd compress it down to 95mm
:oops:
no problem Deanna :)
Two questions: Why did you buy that product? Could you please give more information about your environment.Hello people, I've bought this product: http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/Prod/PID-21022.aspx My plan is to slightly compress the 120 cm insulation between the 95 cm studs with this plastic product, will this work effectively? Or will the plastic product make the insulation work like "closed cell", not letting air pass towards the airgap to next wall, making it ineffective in this application? Advice is very welcome! Please, share your knowledge and experience!¨ Thanks Ossian
I'm still wondering WHY you need to compress it, Ossian! That's what I'm not understanding. What's the reason for wanting to compress low density insulation in a wall? Is the wall built inside-out, or normally?
- Stuart -
I guess his insulation is thicker than his stud's width. so if he's building inside out. the insulation is gonna stick out of the framing
So plastic is going to help this how?
edit: In the open air space...there should be no reason to have to compress the insulation as it will collapse into the void.
My plan is to slightly compress the 120 cm insulation between the 95 cm studs with this plastic product,
120 cm is roughly 47-1/2 inches, about WAIST deep on the average human!
It still isn't making sense to me...but if it works for the op...whatever ;)
95 cm studs are also a non sense!
I think he meant 120mm and 95mm
Dude...you are right, I think. He is placing a 6 inch insulation into a 4 inch wall depth...wow, I was thinking maybe I had gotten hold of a bad six pack of beer and had lost mind function :)
Oh, a lot of answers, thank you all!
The wall design is double leaf double frame(one wall with 3 layer drywall and the other 6' thick brickwall) style with 35 cm(approx 1" and 2') airgap.
The reason I'm asking is becouse I think I've heard somewhere on this board that compressing insulation between studs towards drywall is to get good contact with the drywall, hopefully damping out resonance inducted in the drywall.
But I wonder, will the design somehow be degraded by the closed plastic wrapping, not letting air pass the insulation to the airgap?
I can't convert 35 cm to 1 or two inches because my conversion tool says that 35 cm is 13.77 inches! Please, if it is millimeters (mm) then use that to avoid confusion :) Also 6' is 6 feet or 182.88 cm. Is what you wanted to say actually 6" (15.24 cm)? I thought metric was fully integrated in the UK?The wall design is double leaf double frame(one wall with 3 layer drywall and the other 6' thick brickwall) style with 35 cm(approx 1" and 2') airgap.
I'm sorry for the confusion, I'm not very used to feet and inches and mixed them up :roll: :lol: Brickwall = 6" Airgap = 1' 2"I can't convert 35 cm to 1 or two inches because my conversion tool says that 35 cm is 13.77 inches! Please, if it is millimeters (mm) then use that to avoid confusion :) Also 6' is 6 feet or 182.88 cm. Is what you wanted to say actually 6" (15.24 cm)? I thought metric was fully integrated in the UK?The wall design is double leaf double frame(one wall with 3 layer drywall and the other 6' thick brickwall) style with 35 cm(approx 1" and 2') airgap.
Use what you are familiar with....let the viewer do the conversion :) Less chance of mistakes.
But please use the correct reference to Centimeter (CM) or Millimeter (MM). They are not interchangeable as you are aware.
That isn't much of an air gap! The normal recommendation is for at least 4" of air gap, and more is better. A bigger air gap has a large impact on isolation, and also reduces the resonant frequency of the wall system. Are you SURE that is your air gap you are talking about? I don't see how it can be, and you certainly don't want to compress six inches of insulation into a 2 inch gap!. Or is that just the gap between the FRAME and the brick wall? That would only be your air gap if you are building inside-out: is that the case? To me, it sounds like you have a nearly six-inch air gap, which consists of that two inch gap between the frame and the wall, plus the nearly four inches of depth in your studs. In which case I don't see the need to compress the insulation at all! If it is six inches thick, and you have a nearly six inch air gap, then it will fit in that gap really well already, with only slight compression. If I were you, I'd just put it in there as is. It will completely fill the cavity, which is a good thing, and isn't dense enough to bridge the gap and cause flanking.with 35 cm(approx 1" and 2') airgap.
I don't recall reading that here, but the reason why you want insulation in the cavity is not really related to damping the resonance of the drywall itself (which will be a fairly high frequency), but rather to damp the resonance of the entire MSM system, as well as to drive down the resonant frequency of the system, and thirdly to kill flutter echo in the cavity.The reason I'm asking is becouse I think I've heard somewhere on this board that compressing insulation between studs towards drywall is to get good contact with the drywall, hopefully damping out resonance inducted in the drywall.
Like John said: he has done it successfully. Air does not need to pass through the insulation: sound does, but not air. The plastic will probably reflect back some of the highs into the room (if you are building inside.out walls), but it wont have much effect on the lows. But it seems to me that you are a bit confused about some of the terminology and the dimensions.But I wonder, will the design somehow be degraded by the closed plastic wrapping, not letting air pass the insulation to the airgap?
I mixed up inches and feet, the air gap is one feet and 2 inches, which makes it 35 cm.That isn't much of an air gap! The normal recommendation is for at least 4" of air gap, and more is better. A bigger air gap has a large impact on isolation, and also reduces the resonant frequency of the wall system. Are you SURE that is your air gap you are talking about? I don't see how it can be, and you certainly don't want to compress six inches of insulation into a 2 inch gap!. Or is that just the gap between the FRAME and the brick wall? That would only be your air gap if you are building inside-out: is that the case? To me, it sounds like you have a nearly six-inch air gap, which consists of that two inch gap between the frame and the wall, plus the nearly four inches of depth in your studs. In which case I don't see the need to compress the insulation at all! If it is six inches thick, and you have a nearly six inch air gap, then it will fit in that gap really well already, with only slight compression. If I were you, I'd just put it in there as is. It will completely fill the cavity, which is a good thing, and isn't dense enough to bridge the gap and cause flanking.with 35 cm(approx 1" and 2') airgap.I don't recall reading that here, but the reason why you want insulation in the cavity is not really related to damping the resonance of the drywall itself (which will be a fairly high frequency), but rather to damp the resonance of the entire MSM system, as well as to drive down the resonant frequency of the system, and thirdly to kill flutter echo in the cavity.The reason I'm asking is becouse I think I've heard somewhere on this board that compressing insulation between studs towards drywall is to get good contact with the drywall, hopefully damping out resonance inducted in the drywall.Like John said: he has done it successfully. Air does not need to pass through the insulation: sound does, but not air. The plastic will probably reflect back some of the highs into the room (if you are building inside.out walls), but it wont have much effect on the lows. But it seems to me that you are a bit confused about some of the terminology and the dimensions.But I wonder, will the design somehow be degraded by the closed plastic wrapping, not letting air pass the insulation to the airgap?
Hey ppl, got another question, I don't know if I made myself totally clear so I will see what you think on this one...
The wall design is 2 leaf, separate stud, on ONE of the leaf/stud systems the insulation is supposed to be installed, and I wonder, if I put up this plastic product on the other side of the studs to keep insulation in place, will this not act as 3 leaf system, making it less effective? Or is this layer too thin to act as a leaf? The plastic product says air cannot pass throught, what do you think?
I just need to be sure about this, before I put up the plastic and then have to take it down or something similar stupid...
Thank you!
The plastic is fine
Yep, plastic is fine. It doesn't have anywhere near enough mass or rigidity to act as a leaf.
But I'd still check into possible problems with having two vapor barriers in your wall.