Studio Above Garage

First of all this forum is amazing. I have learned tons. Anyway, I just finished plans for my studio that I may build on the second floor on top of my garage. I had a couple of questions. 1. I have read where ideally it is better to build on the first floor on a slab versus on the second floor. Right now my plans call for 1 1/2" of lightweight concrete to be poured over 3/4" plywood on top of my joists for my floor. I will use a sleeper floor system and put bamboo flooring down over this. Underneath the joists I will uses RSIC clips and 2 layers of drywall with a hat channel. Will this provide adequate isolation? My garage is detached from my house. My concern is with the neighbors. How much of a difference will this be versus building on the first floor slab? Also, my garage walls will be finished with 2 layers of drywall. 2. My ceiling height will be 10'. If I go to the first floor I can do 11' or 12'. How important is ceiling height? Which is preferable? 3. I have spec out some windows from Pella. They have a STC rating of 35. I assume this will be my weak link. Will this be a problem? How much sound will come out? I have a full set of plans in pdf. Would anyone like to see them? Helpful? Thank you very much

I am attaching my plans if anyone is interested.

More files

Nice mass in the floor. Nice decoupling in the ceiling below. Given the neighbor concern, the isolation in walls and ceiling will be the issue. You have roof vents, soffit vents, etc I assume. Flanking paths, so really creating the inner envelope is key. Massive, decoupled and damped walls could get you into the high STC 50s . Thewindows are the week link as you said. Several options here. You could install an inner Soundproof Window over the Pella to keep them operational (you can stil open all). You could also seal them up with laminated glass, but that means no opening. You could also consider window plugs. What means do you have to close off that stairway?

The issue with the upstairs and the proposed floor is that it develops a drum head with the method you are considering. Even if you can install the lightweight concrete, the sleepers alone will raise the floor boundary creating air cavities that will resonate, and a potential three leaf depending on if you hang a ceiling below or IF there is one existing already. Whatever mass you can give to the floor I wouldn't add air gaps. I would also have some degree of certainty that whatever load was about to be placed on this upper floor, the structure below could support it. Good luck

Great guys. Thank you! St. Cloud has some great windows with an STC of around 55/60 but they are incredibly expensive. The Pellas are laminated but only 35 STC. I really don't like those sliding windows that go inside the outside windows. Effective but not so good looking. I do planning on hanging a ceiling below the second floor (garage ceiling) - there is not one now. I was going to hang with two layers of drywall with green glue between. It sounds like you are saying not to do this because of creating a 3 leaf system. Is this correct? I am adding another stud wall (2x4) to the garage walls to support the upper floor.

QUOTE: "I do planning on hanging a ceiling below the second floor (garage ceiling) - there is not one now. I was going to hang with two layers of drywall with green glue between. It sounds like you are saying not to do this because of creating a 3 leaf system. Is this correct?" If there's no drywall ceiling in garage now, then no triple leaf, assuming you do not raise the floor of the room over the attic (thereby creating a new air cavity). If you could decouple the ceiling drywall ( the "hanging ceiling" you mentioned) from those original joists, you have gone a long way to lowering the LF resonance point of that floor ceiling assembly. Further lower the resonance point by adding moderate insulation and mass (double drywall).

Welcome to the Studio Construction forum! I've been hoping to find time to do this for some time now, and Sharward, one of our newer members, did an eloquent job of saving me the trouble - here, with possible MINOR changes, is what we ask of you BEFORE POSTING - No location, no answer. No attempt at providing room details, no answer. (If you try, and I need more, I'll ask.) The effort you put into your question(s), I will put into my answers. I'm sorry it has come to this, but it has. Bottom line is this - if you are willing to put in the effort, so am I. If you are in the process of planning the construction of a studio, this forum contains a wealth of information that will help you, along with many knowledgeable members who can offer you advice with your project. Before you post any questions, please take a few moments to follow these steps - keep in mind that any print in bold type means we need you to pay attention - I don't just randomly bold things unless I consider them important. Review the REFERENCE area - viewtopic.php?t=2125 This is the closest thing we have to Frequenty Asked Questions on this resource at the moment. Many common questions are covered there, and it is required reading in terms of our being able to help you with your project. Use the search feature to look for threads that may contain the answer to your question. There is a wide variety of projects represented in this forum -- everything from relatively low-budget residential rehearsal rooms to full-scale, professional recording studios. If your searches return too many results, try multiple terms with "Search for all terms" enabled. If those efforts do not lead you to the answers you need, you are welcome to post your questions on the forum. If you do so: Edit your profile to include your location. This is very important, because this is a worldwide resource, and as such, material costs and availability vary widely. For example, masonry is cheaper than gypsum in some parts of the globe, whereas it's the exact opposite in other regions. We're not asking for your address or credit card number, just a country will do. Nothing says "I didn't bother to read or follow these instructions" like leaving your profile location blank! Start your post with an overview of your goals and where you are in the process... Research? Planning? Construction already underway? Finished, and wanna know why it doesn't work? HOW LOUD are you, and how picky/loud are your neighbors? How close? This is subjective, so you will need to buy something like the Radio Shack Sound Level Meter Trust me, if you're recording/mixing music you should be using this ALWAYS, so it's not a waste of money. For music at typical mix levels, you want to use "C" weighting, slow. The human ear has no way of "measuring" ABSOLUTE sound levels; it just adapts to what's there, and calls that "normal" - so if you keep raising the volume, pretty soon you're mixing at 110 dB, ruining your hearing and neighbor "atta-boy" points, etc - the SPL meter helps you keep levels constant and safe. For all other tests, the authorities virtually ALWAYS use A weighting, and (I think) slow response. So for compliance, use "A" weighting measurements. Include as much detail as possible about the existing construction. Having details about anatomy of your existing floor, walls, and ceiling is critical. In your searches of the forum, you'll likely find examples of the kinds of details that are needed, and you'll see that the quality and timeliness of the advice given are affected by the level of detail provided. New, 7/24/06 - By "detail", I mean enough detail so I might be able to go buy materials and actually BUILD a nearly identical version of your construction; things like type of material, size of framing if it's visible, style of construction - without this level of detail we can't recommend much of anything. NEW - Please don't tell us you want to float your floor if you are building on an upper level - this is almost always impractical, and ALWAYS will require a LOCAL ENGINEER to verify that it will be safe. Remember that acoustics is THREE DIMENSIONAL, not two - when you give dimensions, we need Length, Width, Height, plus any NON-parallel features of the room. Include drawings of what you're describing if at all possible. They do not need to be professional or perfectly to scale, but they do need to account for the necessary details. Cropping your drawing will allow you to make the important parts larger and more legible without increasing the overall size. See next... Please resize as necessary to keep graphics BETWEEN 700 and 750 pixels wide - otherwise it's either too small for details or it forces people to scroll sideways to read every line of text. If you link to pix OFF this site, please make sure THOSE pix aren't oversized either - it causes the SAME PROBLEM. New, 7-5-06 - From now on, please post ALL pix directly on this site instead of linking to them; I've had too many cases of lost pix when referring new members to threads that would have helped them. Posting the pix HERE would ensure that others get the help YOU got; thanks... Posting L-O-N-G links - long links will also cause people to scroll sideways to read every line of text - here is the trick to avoid that, please use it for long links - [url=LINK]TextYouActuallySee[/url] I keep a word file on my desktop with the above line, then cut and paste everything ahead of LINK into my post, then the long LINK, then close the brackets as shown, then type what shows on screen (TextYouActuallySee), then close with the bracketed [URL] - for me it's just easier to use cut/paste. However you do it, please do it. Group your actual questions last, and put each question in its own paragraph. This makes it easier to respond to each of your questions. ...and finally... Please be patient. Questions are answered in the order received (oldest first), so "bumping" your post may actually delay a reply. It may take up to a week or longer for a response (this will rarely be the case), but you won't be forgotten. If you care to ask an additional question or provide more information before you receive a response, we recommend editing your post instead of bumping, as that will allow you to retain your position in the queue. Again, welcome to the forum, and good luck with your project! (And thank you, Kieth, for a really helpful addition to the site) Steve One more point you need to include - Budget - without this we have no idea if we are wasting our breath suggesting things - answers like "small", "REALLY tight", "reasonable", etc, have no meaning whatever. Comments like "under $500", "prefer to keep it under $1000 but can go more if necessary", "$300-$500 MAXIMUM", will give us a clue for realistic suggestions.

um Deanna - Sharwood is a moderator and has been with the site since 2005 ;)

well..."with us" is relative term :mrgreen: Haven't seen'm for too darn long!

Thank you lilth_envy for the pointers. I have updated my profile to indicate my location. Ted, there is currently no drywall in the ceiling of the garage but we plan on adding it. Ted, I see where you are with the Soundproofing Company. May I call you? I am attaching a pdf of the details of the floor/ceiling construction.

jpricekc wrote:

I am adding another stud wall (2x4) to the garage walls to support the upper floor.

After looking at your pdf I think what you really require is more time and better information for your design. Your current plans show a staggered stud wall that is coupled together by the roof basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as isolation is going. Your window detail is coupling interior exterior walls as well, so no matter who's window you may purchase the isolation quality of the environment is being reduced further. Your plan is showing Wood I-Beams, this is not a place you want to just build a wall and stick it under the joists if the wall is to come into contact with the wood I beam. One more point of interest is the slab. If you are doing this as a new build then you want to incorporate sand into this slab not crushed rock. It's these kinds of things that can be the difference between building a quality recording environment and just building. It seems to be a fair start for a plan but the detail required to get your monies worth has been omitted and will hurt you if you move forward without better attention to these points.

It doesn't look like a staggered studd wall to me - as the top and bottom plates are joined with 2 x 10" plates which aren't necessary. Remove them and you'll have a double wall system. Not sure what's going on with the window.

John Sayers wrote:

It doesn't look like a staggered studd wall to me - as the top and bottom plates are joined with 2 x 10" plates which aren't necessary. Remove them and you'll have a double wall system. Not sure what's going on with the window.

All right then, maybe all the studs are in alignment...but the idea of a staggered stud wall that they have the same top and bottom plate, is a lessor quality wall for isolation. To simply have separate top plates would not be a good enough resolution, due to the roof rafters. A better solution would be to build the exterior shell as a typical building and then to do the room-in-a-room design. Would that be a better procedure?

yes exactly. :)

Wouldn't I lose too much square footage if I did a room inside a room design? I want the space to be as big as possible. I will check on the slab construction to see if it is calling fro gravel or sand. Please keep in mind that this is not really a true "slab." Remember these plans are for a second story studio so the slab will be lightweight concrete 1 1/2". Will this be enough mass? I can change my plans and build on the first floor new construction next to my current garage. Then I can pour a true slab. I assume this will be better for sound then on the second floor. The question is whether the floor/slab in question is the real weak link? Is it my windows, ceilings, roof? If the slab is not the main issue then I will build on the second floor, if it is the main problem then I will build on the first floor. Thoughts? Thank you

Has anyone had any experience with those double framed window systems that hotels in cities sometime use? Aesthetically, I do like them, but how do they perform? Won't his create a triple leaf issue?

jpricekc wrote:

Wouldn't I lose too much square footage if I did a room inside a room design? I want the space to be as big as possible. I will check on the slab construction to see if it is calling fro gravel or sand. Please keep in mind that this is not really a true "slab." Remember these plans are for a second story studio so the slab will be lightweight concrete 1 1/2". Will this be enough mass? I can change my plans and build on the first floor new construction next to my current garage. Then I can pour a true slab. I assume this will be better for sound then on the second floor. The question is whether the floor/slab in question is the real weak link? Is it my windows, ceilings, roof? If the slab is not the main issue then I will build on the second floor, if it is the main problem then I will build on the first floor. Thoughts? Thank you

Your prints are showing a 8+/- inch wall already so you are not losing floor space you are gaining isolation by establishing a fully decoupled wall system and you would lose none of the thermal properties :) One of the things you have to do for those that are reading is to establish what it is you are wanting to do with this room, that will go a long way in what you can do/why and what you may not need to do with this build. For example. If you have a MIDI setup that is your main musical output and you are mixing just this, then a room in a room may not be a requirement. In any event, building in an upper story is cautioned against for many reasons, but what you are trying to achieve will dictate if this is a difficult or easy transition. Is this to be a metal or wood framed building?

Thank you. This will be wood frame construction. The uses of the space will be for my band to practice in and also record in. The most important thing I want out of the construction is sound isolation so that my neighbors will not be bothered. Second priority is sound quality. I don't want any boom effect coming from my downstairs garage. I understand that this will not be true recording studio quality (that I assume will cost mucho dollars) but I do want it to be good enough for a decent demo.

I will not be using much midi.

Then you want to consider getting on the ground level, strongly consider.

jpricekc wrote:

Ted, I see where you are with the Soundproofing Company. May I call you?

I missed these posts. My apologies. Certainly you may call. Follow the link in my signature to our website. 800# posted there.

Don't you have a website of your own to get clients from Ted? I mean a website that doesn't have to filter off of high trafficked websites, like Johns.

I'm here with John's blessings, Brien. Properly identified in my signature, and the poster asked if he could call.

I can vouch for that Brien.