FINALLY - My New Studio Build.

I noticed you never did complete your vapor barrier. As a rule, an unbroken barrier is >required< in order for it to display the attributes of a barrier. Not only is yours "broken" it is missing entirely in some of the areas. This is only mentioned in that when you have moisture issues somewhere down the short road, you may have an avenue to trace the path to what is or is not creating this problem. A solid unbroken moisture barrier is a requirement, anything less is unacceptable. Vapor will creep around the broken areas much in the same way anything else water related will take the path of least resistance.

I just don't have pictures showing me finishing it. I kept it moving, placing it in as as I went along... I am not the best picture taker. Unless I am thinking about it I will do a ton of work and then take a photo when I am done for the day.

It should be noted that this product is closed cell, more a thermal break than specifically used for a barrier. Unless in the case of SIP(Structurally Insulated Panel) or ICF to be more exact, of which this application does not meet that definition. I appreciate having lowered costs, we all benefit from this. But follow through and strict adherence to contemporary building technique is as important as anything in a basement application.

This is not settled science Like Obama and Gore said with Climate Change/Global Warming. :wink: :wink: There are multiple schools of thought regarding the materials to use. Open and closed cell.. I went with the school of thought that didn’t cost $5000 in materials...

Yes sir, it is settled science. A barrier is a wall that is impenetrable by vapor and or moisture from either direction. Unlike politics that is settled on the knee jerk reaction. But you know what you did and how well you did it, so that is the important thing to you.

xSpace wrote:

Yes sir, it is settled science. A barrier is a wall that is impenetrable by vapor and or moisture from either direction.

Hmmm How interestingly you change what I was speaking of to something other than what I was speaking of.. How Loverly. LOL. Holla!!!!

Anything new with build?

Slow to go for now... There will be some updates after the Astarte Holy Days pass. I'll be wrapping up the insulation purchases and finishing the interior treatments...

giles117 wrote:

xSpace wrote: Yes sir, it is settled science. A barrier is a wall that is impenetrable by vapor and or moisture from either direction. Hmmm How interestingly you change what I was speaking of to something other than what I was speaking of.. How Loverly. LOL. Holla!!!!

The same issue I have with the Guy

gn87berner wrote:

giles117 wrote:

xSpace wrote: Yes sir, it is settled science. A barrier is a wall that is impenetrable by vapor and or moisture from either direction. Hmmm How interestingly you change what I was speaking of to something other than what I was speaking of.. How Loverly. LOL. Holla!!!!

The same issue I have with the Guy

Well some people like to spit their science. I wonder how many of these he has built. Even before John helped me with the angles, which was my weak point, I'd been building rooms since 1992.. Not my first rodeo. Very familiar with the science behind this... Perhaps if he were here while I was constructing he could have been helpful. LOL... And might have learned some practicality to go along with all his THEORY.... Not to mention is his reading comprehension suspect.. He totally missed this statement by me. "I needed to place the lower 1st layer for resizing my plans." Every situation isn't perfect and you HAVE to make adjustments... Like a drummer on Tour. he has to adjust to his conditions and gear.. Not every venue will have the backline he demands...

giles117 wrote:

I wonder how many of these he has built.

It would be cool to see some photos.

giles117 wrote:

Not to mention is his reading comprehension suspect.

He doesn't pay attention to a word said.. Would rather hear his own words.

giles117 wrote:

And might have learned some practicality to go along with all his theory

And how about some tact in presenting his theory

Wow...I do not know why you even engaged yourself in an issue over a vapor barrier Bryan, with this person who has issues with vapor barriers. I think the three of us need to agree, a vapor barrier has nothing to do with acoustics.

giles117 wrote:

Perhaps if he were here while I was constructing he could have been helpful.

Like, "Not the 2x4 the 2x6 you stupid %%^^^&&&

If you could point me to that post that you are suggesting I made, I will clean it up.

xSpace wrote:

Wow...I do not know why you even engaged yourself in an issue over a vapor barrier Bryan, with this person who has issues with vapor barriers. I think the three of us need to agree, a vapor barrier has nothing to do with acoustics.

???

gn87berner wrote:

giles117 wrote:

Perhaps if he were here while I was constructing he could have been helpful.

Like, "Not the 2x4 the 2x6 you stupid %%^^^&&&

ROFL!!!

I understand how funny this might seem to the two of you. But it is only the two of you that see the humor. A vapor barrier as Bryan has, is incomplete and ineffective. And whatever gn87berner is saying is only placing those that need better information, at risk.

xSpace wrote:

If you could point me to that post that you are suggesting I made, I will clean it up.

I am not concerned for your words. You are... I will admit to failing to say Permeable.... But then I also assumed people read the various manuals and books dealing with vapor barriers that included the word Permeable... Tose are the rules of the group STUDY STUDY STUDY. ALl this information is available for all to read. Sorry for ASS-uming.... "Those are the rules of the group STUDY STUDY STUDY. ALL this information is available for all to read." So here is some of the information by which I based my choice of barrier

The function of a vapor barrier is to retard the migration of water vapor. Where it is located in an assembly and its permeability is a function of climate, the characteristics of the materials that comprise the assembly and the interior conditions. ... Incorrect use of vapor barriers is leading to an increase in moisture related problems. Vapor barriers were originally intended to prevent assemblies from getting wet. However, they often prevent assemblies from drying. The fundamental principle of control of water in the liquid form is to drain it out if it gets in – and let us make it perfectly clear – it will get in if you build where it rains or if you put your building in the ground where there is water in the ground. This is easy to understand, logical, with a long historical basis.

So let me correct my language. Permeable Vapor Barrier or Vapor Retarder... And my goal was the following: "Avoidance of using vapor barriers where vapor retarders will provide satisfactory performance. Avoidance of using vapor retarders where vapor permeable materials will provide satisfactory performance. Thereby encouraging drying mechanisms over wetting prevention mechanisms." My Design, based on the following. Have good day mate....

xSpace wrote:

A vapor barrier as Bryan has, is incomplete and ineffective.

Except that I followed acceptable building practices. SO again. ???

giles117 wrote:

xSpace wrote:

A vapor barrier as Bryan has, is incomplete and ineffective.

Except that I followed acceptable building practices. SO again. ???

I have only a few things that I hope you will lend your ears to with the same grace that you have showed thus far in this situation that, frankly, neither one of us would be in were it not for the voice of someone else. Take you graphic that you used for your build and apply it directly to the materials that exist in your current construction. Stucco. You have brick, a double wythe it looks like, Bryan. And I suspect that the thinking here might be that these two materials are similar. As they might be. But I'll go along that this assembly is similar just to assert where I think it starts to fail. In your reference picture the rigid insulation is placed on the block wall as a thermal barrier, nothing to do with an acoustical membrane. By design it will not break down to this wetting from either side of the assembly. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13289&start=30 shows that you added insulation into this cavity. Specifically, you placed it directly behind this vapor mechanism (the extruded stuff), reducing any benefit that would have been gained for this material. You have changed what was expected from this assembly by altering the materials used to construct it. When the vapor looks for a place to either pass through or condense it will be on the extruded material you placed in the middle of the wall. The side closest to the insulation you installed at a later time. This assembly in the picture you used and yours are far apart. That's my take on it and that is why I brought it up earlier because I was pretty sure where you were going with it. Had you asked instead of suggesting that you and I had some type of Master/tutor relation, I would have made that information available. In good faith, no matter that it took someone who does not seem to have your best interests at heart...I appreciate that you know what you know. I ask questions for a reason Bryan...I do not know all the answers. I saw the History Channel piece the other day on "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu from the 6th century BC. One of the sayings from this strategic masters writings is in order to gain a specific piece of real estate that a distraction had to be implemented. But instead of talking face to face with that guy that started this, you and I are trying to find a common ground, and he is off basically building houses in an acoustical forum. Thank you for your time sir, Brien

I studied all the theory and reviewed the science. What I did is acceptable... The insulation does not touch the EPS I am using the Insulation is for sound absorption ONLY. There is ample air flow between my stud/rockwool assembly and the EPS as well as is there ample airflow between the EPS and the brick walls to allow room for ventilation of any moisture... AS the brick wall is not a FLAT smooth surface it is a BUMPY and grossly uneven surface. So far I have run through a very rainy season and no ill effects. No condensation, etc.. the rear of the studio is not UP against this wall (as you can see form the photos) so I have been able to shine light down the cavity and see whats going on. I hope that answers your questions.. Nothing in life is PERFECT but we use all the available science and apply it in a reasonable and effective manner. If anything, this assemble BREATHES better than what was previously built... There is ample room for air flow up and through the ceiling...

Need an update please, Thanks. :)