Building a drum practice room

Hi all, I'm after advice on the best way forward for building a drum practice room. I've had a good read through the forum over the past few weeks and have found a lot of useful information but not much about how to retrofit a room and build a quiet drum room so decided to post for advice. If I have missed a thread on this please let me know! I've been researching now for about 6 months and have been reading Rod's book but feel now that overwhelmed with all the information and that i'm no longer sure which why I should move forward. I've found i'm at a point now where I don't know if more or less knowlegible than I was when I first started! I've tried to post as much information as possible about my current situation, and what my goals and challenges are. Hopefully it's not too much information! I've attached a JPEG of my current room and a JPEG of the room with another internal wall of how the room might look. The walls windows etc are to scale but this is my first attempt to use SketchUp so it may be slightly off in places. I couldn't upload my SketchUp files - they were too big even after purging and deleting objects. Current situation I live in Brisbane, Australia and recently went back to playing acoustic drums after playing electronic kits for the past 8 years due to living in rentals and apartments. Now we finally have a place of our own, i'd like to be able to play my acoustic drum kit without bothering my neihbours and family. Background information

-House is 5 years old brick and tile lowset with standard 2.4m ceilings. -House is in a quiet residential street with little traffic. -My drum room is a lounge / bed room (no built ins) and is 4.4m x 3.9m. -Walls are standard plasterboard with and 64mm stud. There isn't any insulation in the walls, however there is insulation in the ceiling. -On the other side of the wall with the desk is the garage (south). -On the other side of the wall with the door is the entrance with 2 small bedrooms (north). -On the other side of the remaining wall is the kitchen (east). -The wall with the 2 windows is an outside facing wall (brick) which is the front of the house (west). -Windows - sliding windows with standard glass -Floor is carpet on concrete slab.

-Neigbours

- neighbours haven't complained and say that my drumming doesn't bother them but they can hear it. Based on this, I am very selective about when I play and only play for about 30 minutes at a time. There are a lot of young kids in the neighbourhood so I don't play after 7pm. -Neighbours are approximately 15 metres away to the South and North, 25 metres to the west (house across the road) and 25 metres to East (over back fence)

-Family

- My wife is very tolerant but it's also very loud in the house. We also have a new family member on the way who will be sleeping directly opposite my drum room.

Sound levels - I checked sound level readings using a basic Sound Level Meter.

-In room - 105db -In garage - 75db -At front fence - 65db (about 4 metres in front of the house)

-Budget is $15,000 at a stretch but would prefer to keep it under $10,000 Goals -Be able to practice 24/7 without my neighbours hearing me. I usually play songs but want to be able to practice fills and repetative rudiments which can get annoying! Just a personal thing but I don't like that people can hear me practising this! -Be able to practice without bothering the family. -Make the room sound good acoustically. I would also like to record in the room -Wire in mic cables -Not lose too much floor space -Not detract value from the house by making the house smaller / losing a room (more below). Challenges / Questions -Ceiling height is 2.4 metres - I'm planning on building a floating floor and a new ceiling (room in a room). this will bring the ceiling height down to about 2.2 metres. Should I raise the ceiling height so it's not claustrophobic? Also according to the building code, if a room is under 2.4 metres it's no longer classed as a "habitable" room. This will bring our house down to 3 bedroom from 4 bedroom. Should I look at rasing the ceiling height a foot in the room using scissor trusses? It may cost a little more now but might save pain later? -I'd like to still be able to open the windows. If I put in a layer of 6.25mm laminated glass on the new internal wall, will this be enough to isolate the drums? -I've been researching for the last 6 months or so and have gained a lot of knowledge but am still unclear on the best way to construct the walls. The existing walls are standard plasterboard with 64mm studs. I'm planning on removing existing plasterboard, cutting in 2 layers of 16mm plasterboard in between studs, insulating wall, leaving 10mm air gap and installing new insulated stud wall with 2 x 16mm plasterboard on inner wall. I'm still undecided on whether to use Green Glue? -The room is a decent size and would prefer to keep as much of it as possible. I couldn't fit my bookcases back in the room once i'd installed the new stud wall in SketchUp. I'd appreciate any feedback. Cheers

Hi! There is an announcement at the top of the forum about what to do to assure getting as many responses as possible. The announcement leads to this post (click here). Actually, several people, who are experts on this forum, will not reply if you don't do what is written in that post. Many others who are very helpful, will not reply out of respect for the moderators' wishes. You got most of the points right, but missed the biggie! :)

I'm planning on building a floating floor and a new ceiling (room in a room).

Are you sure you want to float your floor? Did you read this thread? FLOATING FLOORS: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173 The cost of floating your floor properly is going to eat a huge chunk out of your budget. Maybe all of it. It's usually a bad idea: Really hard to get right, really expensive, and really easy to waste all that money and fail to float it.... Did you read this other thread? viewtopic.php?t=2921 He's doing exactly what you want to do. It's a long thread, and still not finished, but you should find it really interesting! - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Thanks for your reply. I did notice that I have some tasks to do before I post and thought i'd completed them. Let me see, profile has location, i've reviewed the reference area, have searched, am not YELLING, posted pics within 700 x700. Can you give me a hint? :shock: :oops: :) Thanks for the links. I'll definately read them. I started to read Sharwards post last week. I'll need to make myself another coffee before I re-attempt! Cheers

Sharward has a great thread.....a word of advise while reading it.....create bookmarks in your browser (or keep a notepad with page numbers) of items or subjects you want to reference later. It will alleviate many headaches later spooling through it to find that one item you sort of remember seeing.......somewhere. :wink:

makenaiboy wrote:

Hi Stuart, Thanks for your reply. I did notice that I have some tasks to do before I post and thought i'd completed them. Let me see, profile has location, i've reviewed the reference area, have searched, am not YELLING, posted pics within 700 x700. Can you give me a hint? :shock: :oops: :) Thanks for the links. I'll definately read them.

My bad! for some reason I thought you hadn't filled in your location in your profile. Sorry!

I started to read Sharwards post last week. I'll need to make myself another coffee before I re-attempt!

Only ONE more coffee? I reckon you'll need a large can of it! On second thoughts, maybe you'd better buy an entire crate! :) Especially if you start following the links to other threads, and off-site... That's an epic thread, and very much worth reading. I remember that it took me several days to get through it when I first found it, and I was really disjointed when I got to the last page and found that it isn't finished yet! Anyway, if you build yours like that, you'll have a great room. - Stuart -

Ziggadaboom wrote:

Sharward has a great thread.....a word of advise while reading it.....create bookmarks in your browser (or keep a notepad with page numbers) of items or subjects you want to reference later. It will alleviate many headaches later spooling through it to find that one item you sort of remember seeing.......somewhere. :wink:

Good idea, I will do that! thanks

Soundman2020 wrote:

My bad! for some reason I thought you hadn't filled in your location in your profile. Sorry!

No worries

Soundman2020 wrote:

makenaiboy wrote:

Hi Stuart, Thanks for your reply. I did notice that I have some tasks to do before I post and thought i'd completed them. Let me see, profile has location, i've reviewed the reference area, have searched, am not YELLING, posted pics within 700 x700. Can you give me a hint? :shock: :oops: :) Thanks for the links. I'll definately read them.

My bad! for some reason I thought you hadn't filled in your location in your profile. Sorry!

I started to read Sharwards post last week. I'll need to make myself another coffee before I re-attempt!

Only ONE more coffee? I reckon you'll need a large can of it! On second thoughts, maybe you'd better buy an entire crate! :) Especially if you start following the links to other threads, and off-site... That's an epic thread, and very much worth reading. I remember that it took me several days to get through it when I first found it, and I was really disjointed when I got to the last page and found that it isn't finished yet! Anyway, if you build yours like that, you'll have a great room. - Stuart -

I'm currently reading it at work and have all the text posted in notepad so i'm using my imagination on the pics until I get home! Yes I do need more coffee to read this especially with just text! Does the thread get into the acoustics of the room at some point? This is still an area that confuses me, specifically as to how many absorbers I need, angles of the wall etc. Also, a question on he wall design here: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... /Walls.htm In the picture it has brick as but only my outer wall is brick. Assuming in the outer wall in the design was a stud with 2 layers of 16mm plasterboard, how would this wall construction compare to a standard double stud wall? A standard stud wall would have a larger cavity (inner wall has 2 x 16mm on the inner side as opposed to the outer in the design above), so can I assume it will provide better isotion? Thanks

Totally sealed (all cracks) brick can be pretty hard to beat as far as STC. You need quite an air cavity to make any huge difference. I think it's something like 1-2 dB extra if you double the standard cavity size of 100mm. But in saying that the wall your proposing is brick outer? Yes

In the picture it has brick as but only my outer wall is brick. Assuming in the outer wall in the design was a stud with 2 layers of 16mm plasterboard, how would this wall construction compare to a standard double stud wall? A standard stud wall would have a larger cavity (inner wall has 2 x 16mm on the inner side as opposed to the outer in the design above), so can I assume it will provide better isotion?

Well, yeah, a larger air gap will increase isolation, but there is an awful lot more mass in a brick wall than there is in 2 layers of drywall, so that makes a major difference. Brick is nearly three times the density of drywall (depending on the type), so a 10cm thick brick wall has roughly the same mass as about 18 layers of drywall! Like Lilith said: a good brick wall is preferable to a good drywall wall any day, provided that it is well sealed. So if you can choose whether to make your outer leaf from bricks or from a stud wall, then most definitely go with the brick. Your inner leaf can be drywall on studs if you want. And with a brick outer leaf, that will be a really good wall. Lots of STC there!

Does the thread get into the acoustics of the room at some point? This is still an area that confuses me, specifically as to how many absorbers I need, angles of the wall etc.

I think he mentions acoustics in there somewhere, but I don't recall the details. Probably your best bet is to look through some of the rooms John has designed and built, and the rooms that others have built here, then choose one that takes your fancy and adapt it to fit your space. The general rules of thumb are to keep your floor hard (reflective) and ceiling soft (absorbent), especially if you ever plan to record your drums, since you don't want the overheads to be close to a reflective surface, such as a hard ceiling a few inches away. Make sure that your walls are not parallel, to help reduce flutter echo. You'll need some absorption in the room to deal with resonance and reverb times, but don't overdo it. A totally dead room is not pleasant. I'm sure other folks will have additional ideas to offer on that front, but a really good place to learn about acoustic treatment is Ethan's web site, at www.realtraps.com . And right here on the forum, of course! - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Like Lilith said: a good brick wall is preferable to a good drywall wall any day, provided that it is well sealed. So if you can choose whether to make your outer leaf from bricks or from a stud wall, then most definitely go with the brick. Your inner leaf can be drywall on studs if you want. And with a brick outer leaf, that will be a really good wall. Lots of STC there!

Thanks guys, but I sorry I might not have explained properly. My outer wall (front of house) is brick but the other 3 are plasterboard on 64mm studs. That makes sense regarding brick but unforutunately I don't have the budget, time or patience to redo these 3 walls in brick. My question was assuming I installed another standard stud wall inside what i've already got.... i.e. -Remove existing inner layer -Cut in 2 layers of 16mm to increase mass of existing plasterboard walls -Fill with insulation -Leave air gap -Build new stud wall with insulation -Plaster with 2 16mm plasterboard vs -Remove existing inner layer -Cut in 2 layers of 16mm to increase mass of existing plasterboard walls -Fill with insulation -Leave air gap -From here built this http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... /Walls.htm would the latter offer sigificantly less STC since the plasterboard is closer to the existing walls, reducing the air cavity, hence reducing isolation?

makenaiboy wrote:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/24/page/1...

The acoustics area of this forum is located at: viewforum.php?f=3 You can get questions answered right there and searching will produce a wealth of information as well. No need to click out :)

xSpace wrote:

makenaiboy wrote:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/24/page/1...

The acoustics area of this forum is located at: viewforum.php?f=3 You can get questions answered right there and searching will produce a wealth of information as well. No need to click out :)

Oops , I removed that link from my post. It must have come over when I copied and pasted my draft from notepad :shot:

I'm just getting a quote from a builder to have a new internal stud wall to be installed. He mentioned that the new internal wall needs to be attached to the existing ceiling trusses buy an "L bracket" to support the structure. Will this cause any flanking since it's connected to the existing ceiling? Is there a better way to do this? Thanks

I may be talking to myself again :cry: but i have a question regarding the installation of a wall mounted air conditioner. The companies I had out to give me a quote today said they would run the drain pipe between my double stud walls out the front of the house. The length of the pipe from the air conditioner to the front of the house will be about 3 metres. Is this going to seriously compromise my sound isolation? Thanks