Framing question

Hello all, just a quick question: I will soon (tomorrow 8) ) order the wood for the framing and a real experienced carpenter will help me. "Real experienced" means: She framed loads of really good studios in town! Anyway, she saw my plans and said: "wohhhooowwww! Toooo much lumber!" I threw a couple of studs (especially corner studs, door studs, header, cripple studs) away and she still keeps on saying: "Too much!" Now I'm a little concerned 'bout that. Are those corner framing details e.g. in the reference area because of your codes over there? Or is it because it's "save". Orrr is it because it'll be easier to seal a corner... (I doubt that...) Here's a sketch to see what I mean... this is what I have learned here: and this is what she is going to do: What do you think? Thanks, Carsten

Your method is much stronger, although you might have one too many studs in that corner. You want a stiff wall if you need good TL in the lower octaves. Her method looks harder to do, IMHO, but YMMV. Those are all 2x4 lumber, right? You might not need double top plates either. I would go with double bottom plates though. Doors in studios are REALLY heavy and should have reinforcement in their framing. Double king studs with a cripple and a decent header will help keep the door true and keep the seals in place longer as the place settles. Do it right now since it can save you trouble later. -ashley

I would have her explain the reasoning behind her framing. I don't see the purpose of the blocks. Usually there are two studs in the corner so the drywall can be secured along the edge. Her method would leave the edges unsupported which is not typical. If she has a rational explanation that would give you something to evaluate. Your method is not quite typical either, at least not for the USA, perhaps it is in Europe. Typical framing (again for USA) would use two studs with blocking in between on one wall and a single stud on the other. There are other methods that use less materials and leave more room for insulation. For instance, you could use drywall clips and one stud or simply use two studs. I sure you can google typical corner stud framing for ideas. When researching, the most important question you should ask is "why?" Good luck.

Single bottom plate -double top plate( if your fixing the ceiling directly on the top plate) Her design will be way too hard to plaster. try this

The best reason I can think of, carsten_d, to use your version which is similar to Liliths version and is not uncommon in the States, depending on what you are constructing, is to have the ability to tie the walls together once you stand them up ;)

Greetings Friends, If you are going to secure the end of the sheetrock at the corners with sheet rock screws and then use backer rod, then caulk for the corner joints your method would offer more / better support? Stay Gold, Ken

Thank you all. Ok, now I guess either one will be ok. Nevertheless, I'll have to convince her that at least double king studs at doors will be what I want. Her approach is cool because I'll save a real bunch of money and since no one really cried out: "WTF!" or :cop: I'm fine with that. Cool. Thanks a lot. Carsten P.S.: - the lumber is 6cm x 10cm (approx 2" x 4") - the ceiling will be fixed on top of the top plates - sorry, I forgot to mention this is an inside corner, gypsum only on the inside. next wall will be 20cm away - more details: look here

Ok, now I guess either one will be ok.

Huh??? Hang on a sec! I didn't see anyone say that "her" design was good! I saw everyone say that YOURS was good, and "hers" was questionable... Where are you going to attach your drywall corners, in "her" design? Answer: nowhere! Your corners will "float", unsupported. That doesn't sound like a good design to me, (especially if you decide be inside-out as in xSpace's layout)! You need surfaces underneath the edges of the drywall to nail it to and support it firmly. "Her" design has none. The edges of the drywall will only have each other for support, and I certainly wouldn't like to rely only on flimsy, vibrating drywall edges for the airtight seal around my studio! One question: You do plan to support your inner leaf ceiling from those walls, right? If so, then you will have lots of MASS up there.... mass that needs firm support. I'd go with double top plates and xSpace's layout for the corners. That saves you one stud per corner (three instead of four), and still gives you good support and nailing surfaces. It is only one more stud than "she" plans to use, and is a lot easier to construct. Another question: Are you using 24" OC spacing, or 16"? Going with 24" will reduce your total stud count considerably, and also improve the acoustic properties of the wall itself, as it brings down the resonant frequency slightly, as well as being slightly more resilient. If you were planning 16" OC, then you can save a lot by going to 24" OC. But stick with the double top plates and the sturdy corners, as in xSpace's diagram. My $0.02 - Stuart -

Allright. I agree. No one said "good". But on the other hand no one really said that it's an absolutely no-go. Well...I ordered the lumber a couple of hours ago...aaaaand, had in mind that this will be my studio and I made the plans soooo I'm the one to decide how to build the corners. hehe. Some kind of last minute decision. Anyway. There'll be enough lumber for the corners :) Stuart, it'll be 24 OC. Thanks, Carsten

Hey Carsten. Sounds good!

I'm the one to decide how to build the corners. hehe.

Yup! You bet! You are the one paying the bills, after all...

Anyway. There'll be enough lumber for the corners

Wanna bet? Murphy's law says that no matter how much you ordered, it wont be enough: you will always be short! :) - Stuart -

If you're going to do it her way, at least tie the walls together with metal plates, i.e. Simpson Strong-Tie, or equivilent. If the walls are load bearing, I don't think her corners are up to code or good practice. But it's your studio. Best of luck... :|

Soundman2020 wrote:

especially if you decide be inside-out as in xSpace's layout

Stu, I didn't have a layout ;) Further clarification for carlston; When the walls are framed and stood upright, you(she) will have to nail these corners together...just to keep them up in the air so they do not fall on your head. Sticking diagonal framing members onto these rickity walls to support them while waiting for some special way to tie them together is, well, backwards to me. Framing does not change just because it is a "studio". The reasons it is done in your house is the same reason it is done in a home theater or studio build. Food for thought, sound frequency as we all have learned or are still learning builds up in corners. Pick a corner ;) It is a common phenomenon that pressure, on most anything you can speak of, will be applied most dramatically, at the corners. A water tank filled of water has more pressure at the corners. When forming concrete, it is a known fact that, all things being equal, if the form is going to blow, it's going to be at the corner. Build a strong corner, not a girly corner :) Brien

I agree with Xspace, yet I'm highly insulted! :D Just go with my drawing, it's girlie and right!

No disrespect Ms. Lilith. Your idea has truly the pure strength and simple grace of a woman. Not bad really, for a girl.

Stu, I didn't have a layout ;)

Damn! It was Lilith, not you!!!! OOops!!! There I go again, sticking my foot in it, and adding insult to injury for poor Lilith!!! :oops: - Stuart -

Freudian slip I suppose.

Soundman2020 wrote:

Wanna bet? Murphy's law says that no matter how much you ordered, it wont be enough: you will always be short! :) - Stuart -

hehe. you know what... lumber was enough :) the rest looks like this naahhh...i'm kidding. it's a little more. I'll show you later. but: gypsum was a little less (because my order was too fast without planing enough) i have to order another 10. the rest so far ( and this IS the rest): anyways. I'm short before ordering wood for the doors... the 2nd layer gypsum is done...at least in the rec room... and it looks like this: greetings, carsten

Cool! Progress! And pix too, so it DID happen! Congratulations, Carsten! It's looking good. And I'm glad to see that I was partly right about Murphy and his laws... :) - Stuart -