My Cieling Dilemma

I figured I might get more of a response if I posted this in the construction forum... My ceiling height WILL BE roughly a little over 8', due to the slab to the existing ceiling is a tad over 8'10". I've included a diagram of what the structure will look like IF I continue to build it using a box within a box. I notice after drawing it up it creates a triple leaf if I'm correct.... Outside to in: Outer Wall, Space, 2x6, Wood Board, GB, Space, 2x6, GB, GB. What's a guy to do?? How can I maintain isolation thorough my ceiling, without coupling my rooms? Should I not gap the 2 1/2, and instead fill that with mass to give me a double leaf? But then the walls are coupled through the ceiling. I need some help please, thanks Ian

Oops sorry everyone, here's my thread - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11508

Yes that is a 3 leaf system. your drawing doesn't show it very well though. where is the outside wall? how is the roof floating there?

A currently being built studio that Rod designed seems to show a two leaf. MadMAX: FINALLY!! The saga begins Mind you this is a tall and wide area, but it looks as though the interior room ceiling will be installed and the roof area will be the second leaf. But there are areas that have not been discussed nor can be seen that may modify what it is I think I am seeing :) I know that I have been wrestling with this for a while myself. I have just a simple project room in complete state of disarray due to me not working on it :) but this two leaf VS three leaf, how much isolation do you lose issue keeps hounding me. I am in the think mode of utilizing a modified inside out wall method for this area. My thinking is that I gain from a two leaf, I increase my load carrying capacity by laying on the top side of the framing versus deadloading the bottom and the parallel floor/ceiling goes away AND I keep the room height plus gain absorption. So then the spring becomes the entire attic. But what can I expect from external noise/sound?

Hi Lilith, thanks for your response. I figured it was a three leaf, I included a new picture hopefully that will clarify the construction of the building. If you study the image I added, this is the how the entire existing 38'x26' structure is built. 8'10" from the slab to the existing ceiling, held up by 2x6 joints in the crawlspace on top of plywood. My method has been the room within a room, so all my rooms are being built within this structure with double leafs. But I don't know what to do for a ceiling. :cry: My main issue is that if I tear off the drywall on the ceiling, and ply board on the opposite side, Ill expose the crawlspace, losing not only structural elements, but sacrificing heat, and temp insulation. I'm seriously contemplating leaving this existing ceiling, and submit to the ever horrible triple leaf. :evil: I just can't figure this out, maybe it's so easy I can't see it, but then again maybe not. Any Ideas before I succumb to the darkside Thanks - Ian

Mind you this is a tall and wide area, but it looks as though the interior room ceiling will be installed and the roof area will be the second leaf.

But if this is the case, then I must build my inner leaf walls to the existing ceiling, correct? Which would mean all inner leafs of a room would be sharing this one leaf :?:

But there are areas that have not been discussed nor can be seen that may modify what it is I think I am seeing

Let me know exactly what I need to share with you, so you have a better understanding.

but this two leaf VS three leaf, how much isolation do you lose issue keeps hounding me.

Like I said, I feel like giving into temptation sometimes :twisted:

I am in the think mode of utilizing a modified inside out wall method for this area. My thinking is that I gain from a two leaf, I increase my load carrying capacity by laying on the top side of the framing versus deadloading the bottom and the parallel floor/ceiling goes away AND I keep the room height plus gain absorption.

If you have the time could you possible give me some insight into your idea? Thanks for your response Brien, I appreciate it, hopefully we can solve this crazy leaf issue

"But there are areas that have not been discussed nor can be seen that may modify what it is I think I am seeing" The above line was actually speaking directly to the linked construction. Still, it looks like they are using a two leaf, interior walls with ceiling(heavy ceiling) and roof as outer leaf. I guess with the tall walls and taller exterior walls, it works. What I have yet to get a handle on, if it is like I think I am seeing, is the thermal barrier. The air of the mass/mass is accessible from the roof/attic. I guess that is my next month of reading coming up;) I'm going with a two leaf, no matter the physical suffering on my part. If Max can do it in his large studio I can suffer through it in mine.

"But there are areas that have not been discussed nor can be seen that may modify what it is I think I am seeing"

Let me try to work on something so that the entirety of the building can be shown. Thanks Brien - Ian

I was talking about Max's place...that is the one in question. :)

My bad haha :?

X do you know what page of the link the double leaf is under??

Sure, it is on the one I linked to. You have to scroll down(it's a big page) then kinda turn your head sideways. edit: The 4th, 6th and seventh pix give a good view that you can see up to the roof.

Ok I saw it, I don't know much about construction, I believe you said that was your thing X. But it does look like they would have to be using the roof as the outer leaf like you said. Max seemed to say earlier that he was going to go with a soft ceiling for the CR, but towards the end it, seems as if he's putting gb right up there. I would sure like to know. Have you asked Rod about it? I'm going to try to read its entirety once I have a few. PS - how come it appears as if he is caulking quite a bit, if not most of his framing. I thought I read here that it wasn't really necessary because the inner leaf mass and outer leaf mass should be caulked air tight, therefore there is no need to do any caulking to the frame of the structure itself. Am I missing something??

The red in color caulk is a different thing. It is designed for fire rated applications. In this case any penetration that can lead to the above area has to be caulked using fire rated caulking.

"Max seemed to say earlier that he was going to go with a soft ceiling for the CR..." Most likely this is a reference to using overhead absorption via clouds after the hard ceiling has been installed.

Brien, After hours of digging through old posts, I found this one responded by Rod himself on the ceiling issues to which has us so puzzled -http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10315