The Sound Station Studios New Mini Facility

Hi All, I have been reading the posts on and off since registering. I've absorbed quite a lot of info from all the different posts. Plenty of info and I've found many nuggets that I have been able to use. I've done my best to include the necessary info to get feedback, please let me know if I have missed anything. Some of what I say now will be repeated below. I just want to be clear as this is my first post. I am in planning mode right now. I am just closing a commercial facility. The economy and my outgrowing the place (the room had limitations and I wasn't willing to spend on a place I just lease) just made the decision easier to make. I picked up a solid day gig doing audio for video and voice over work at a big university in Philadelphia, so I have the time to close the place, move it all home and plan my new room. The new room will be on the rear of my home. The room is an enclosed patio that was sold as living space when we bought the house 11 years ago. The room needs some TLC as it was built by the former owner and let's just say he didn't do everything "by the book". I have 1st grade skills using Sketch Up and am just graduating to 2nd grade on that. :D Any advice there is welcomed. I see Stuart from Chile has it going on with SU. Rock on Stuart! I can't get the damned lumber to go where I want to yet! :cry: I have attached an SU file of the space with the important items (ie; steps, sump/access hole) and existing doors. I've made the effort to include dimensions. I need help determining the best use of the space. I am partial to the design that John made that is on the SAE site. Considering my space, that design may just do the trick. However, I am open to any new ideas that will help me meet my goal. My intention for the space is to have a CR, a vocal/amp booth, a small office type area and a workshop spot. I figure the workshop and office could share the same space as I build my own gear and if I could gain any area for storage, well, that would be a bonus. Enough of the rambling, below is the info the posting guidelines suggested. Again, if I've missed anything, please point it out. I look forward to any and all input. This will be a long process, but will be well worth it. Overview The goal is to construct a control room for mixing and mastering, a booth for over dubs and vocal tracking, a workshop and small office area. I have some demo work and structural repairs to complete prior to any inside construction. This includes roof repair and the reframing of exterior walls so that inside construction can proceed. The area I am building in is an enclosed patio sometimes called a Florida room. The above work represents the only definite work that will proceed this spring. I am researching the best use of my space and this is where I hope to have input from the forum. I would like to start construction (inside) after settling on a solid plan that will work for me. I am really excited to be undertaking this process, and look forward to any and all input I may receive. Why I am here I have been engineering for the past 12 years. My main "home" has been a 1000 sq/ft commercial project studio here in South Jersey. I have done freelance work in some large commercial studios on some really great projects that have been a great addition to my credits. I have chosen to work here in SJ as my family is located here. I am closing my studio and building a useable space at home to cut overhead, imagine that, and to have a space that is built much better than where I am now. Turn It Down I think I can describe my loudness habits fairly well. My tracking levels are probably my loudest habit right now. I've been tracking around 100dB+, as I've been trying to compensate for the lack of seperation my current set up offers. I would like to lower these levels into the mixing range with better seperation I hope to get building the new room. In mixing, I like to be around 85 to 90dB with client playback hitting 100dB for short periods of time. Hitting 100dB does not happen on a regular basis. Sometimes you just can't help it, if you know what I mean. I do want to build into my design an amp/vocal room. Obviously, recording a Mesa Triple Rec can easily go over 100dB. And, I plan on recording bass in the room as well as acoustic guitar. So I really need to keep these things in mind when designing that space. I have no plans for recording any drums. I just don't have the room. I will do that recording at another facility. My home has approximately 30' between houses on each side. The houses to the rear are well over 100' from me. Another point to mention, this enclosed patio is on the rear of the house. The rooms that are behind it are the master bedroom and a smaller bedroom used as a large walk in closet. Transmission into this space has to be minimized. The Space My enclosed patio is built on a 4" slab which is sloped slightly away from the house. It is 28'-1 1/2" wide (outside measurement) and 11'-8" deep (inside measurement). The roof goes from 6'-10" on the low side to 9'-3" where it attaches to the house. The joists over the patio are 2x6, and I think they may need to be sistered. The roof angle is giving me some problems as I don't know how to factor that into any layout options other than what I have attached to this post. Any alternate ideas would be appreciated. There are no supporting columns in the space. However, I have a sump/crawl space access point about 1/3 of the way into the room from the south wall. (I have noted in the drawings N, S, etc.). I can't move this, although I can move the sump pumps' outflow pipe under the house and have it drain to another area. This space is currently not fed by the HVAC system that serves the house. It originally had a gas heater that served it, but I removed that as it looked a bit scary. I am using space heaters for the time being. So, HVAC will need to be addressed. I will also need to decide on the electrical set up I will use. The house has a 200 amp service and I have plenty of free breaker bays. Grounding will be the major concern here. I can address that in my design phase. The Budget I am counting on doing well over 90% of the interior construction myself and/or with some help from the willing. I have set no solid deadline for myself. I have a steady day gig, so I am not sweating having an unused space draining money away. I am anticipating nearing the $10,000 USD mark, possibly exceeding it. I plan to pay cash for what I need. I know this will determine how fast the room comes together. I have a barter agreement set up with a framing carpenter to help with the exterior repairs I need to do first. My financial outlays will be for materials. I am under no illusions that anything will be inexpensive either. One thing i have learned in this business is patience, so I am content with building this space as finances permit and doing it as right as I can. Other Thoughts I do have Rods' book as well as F.A. Everests Handbook of Acoustics. Rods' book has really been helpful. I have a lot of ideas about how to use the space, some HVAC options and other ideas. I do like the design from the SAE site that John made and it would most likely fit my space limitations. However, I will hold judgement on that until I get some feedback from the forum. There are other items that I will need advice on and I will get to those as this process progresses. I think that about covers it. Thanks for taking the time to read this. If you need more info, just ask. I will check in fairly regularly.

My first thought is to break the room up into 3 areas A, B and C. I also added a WC next to the entrance to the house. I would like to make this area (A) the office spot. Doesn't have to be big. I have given some thought to the HVAC needs. I liked Rod's idea of an exchange chamber and maybe Area C could be developed to handle this. I was thinking of the exchange chamber handling both Area B, which in my mind would be where the CR would go and Area C, the spot for the vocal/amp booth. I am thinking this way as the sump/access hole is not something I would want in the CR. Just thinking out loud here. Pic posted too.

Hi. This open area may look large at the moment but the minute you frame a dividing wall, it will shrink as if by magic :) That said, two smaller rooms may not make you as productive as you once were. Have you considered one larger room? As a Florida room goes, this has a lot of glass no? I didn't catch what kind of exterior veneer it has either. Either way, glass windows and/or wood siding may not be the best material to contain that mesa boogie @ 100db in the existing room. Your outside of this room, being the first line of defense for containing sound or warding off intrusive noise, is going to be important in the detail that you give to it. Thanks for joining and keep us posted :)

xSpace wrote:

Hi. This open area may look large at the moment but the minute you frame a dividing wall, it will shrink as if by magic :) That said, two smaller rooms may not make you as productive as you once were. Have you considered one larger room? As a Florida room goes, this has a lot of glass no? I didn't catch what kind of exterior veneer it has either. Either way, glass windows and/or wood siding may not be the best material to contain that mesa boogie @ 100db in the existing room. Your outside of this room, being the first line of defense for containing sound or warding off intrusive noise, is going to be important in the detail that you give to it. Thanks for joining and keep us posted :)

Hi xSpace, I would like to build a CR and a separate amp/vocal booth. I do not like the idea of one large room, I like to mix as I track. I will be eliminating all the windows in the Florida room as well as reframing all the exterior walls. I would then like to build room in a room for both the CR and the booth. I am working on how to use the space to get as close to what I want as possible. Detail is everything, I am in the choir on that. :D Thanks for the welcome and I will be as active as possible on this. I am motivated.

I just finished with Lou's build. What a read. What he didn't go through. Made me sit back and really look at what it is I am trying to do. I am looking at usage of space first of all and move on from there. I did find out that my angled ceiling is not a hindrance. Still researching, reading and learning. An in depth look at room ratios versus my available space is next up. W

Still browsing and learning. Working up to make best use of my space. Asking a lot of questions and getting active on the forum is helping a lot. Not bumping but trying to keep it real. Hope to have some sort of layout soon. SketchUp is taking some time for me to learn and be productive. :x W

SketchUp is taking some time for me to learn and be productive.

Yeah, I know what you mean! It's a love/hate thing with me. I love its power and simplicity in general, once you get to know it. But I hate it's silly quirkiness in places. I keep on having to figure out new workarounds, because it won't do what I wanted it to do. But it is a great tool. It took me about a month to get reasonably proficient with it, but I'm still learning.... - Stuart -

Yep, doesn't seem very intuitive. Still learning too. Thanks for joining the thread Stuart. W

One big hint about using SketchUp efficiently: Use the "group", and "make component" and "explode" tools a lot, and put things on layers, to make it easier to work. Once I started doing that, it started making more sense. - Stuart -

I understand the group and make component. What does explode do? And, I did figure out the layers bit. W

What does explode do?

It "unmakes" a group or component. Very useful when you forgot to include something in a group, or included it at the wrong level. Explode, shift-select the missing item, make group again. Also, did you know that different levels of a group or component can belong to different layers? That one REALLY confused me for a while! I'd have a wall that would disappear when I clicked off my "floor" layer, and it took me ages to figure out that somewhere down inside the levels of the group I had that wall also assigned to the floor layer! It would be neat to have some kind of hierarchical diagram so you can see easily what belongs to which layers, and vice-versa. I've figured out workarounds, though. Cumbersome, but they work. Are you using the animation tabs too? They are a BIG help when you realize that you can turn off changes in camera angle for different tabs! So you can have one tab which shows only your sheetrock, another which shows only your framing, etc, and without changing your viewpoint! It's like being able to group layers easily, but unrelated... LOVE! HATE! LOVE! HATE!! :) - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart! :D I will give all that a try. Appreciate the info. I am closing my old facility this month. So it's going to be busy with work, moving and SketchUp :wink: Looking forward to making a better layout. Thanks. W

I've come to HATE the thing. Gotta be something better or at least a bit more intuitive. :horse: W

Nooooo! don't say that. I think it's great. I've never used the layer thing. I going to go have a play. With regard to your design, I've scanned through your essay a few times but didn't see it. What is the brick work on the floor at the north wall? Can it be cover? Or will you need access to it? Lil

Hi lilith_envy, That would be my sump hole/access for the crawl space under the house. I put a cover on it as I wanted to maybe access it from inside one of my rooms. I'm still working on a design and learning. I have been talking to some folks to get help as I think I'll need it. All good stuff and continuing to move forward. Also, really busy at work right now. Damn glad to be working too! :) W

Sorry, i've never heard of that. how would a corner design work? Here's a very rough idea.

Hi lilith_envy, A sump hole, is basically a hole that is lower than the grade beneath the house. Since my area has a dense layer of clay about 12 inches below grade, it is called "Marl Clay" hence the name of my town, water will not drain through it. So, after any heavy rain, the water that accumulates drains down and flows to the low point where the sump hole is. It is then pumped out toward the street where it makes its way to the sewers. Sorry about the basic explanation but I figured I'd give you some insight into our geology here too. :) As for your corner idea, I thought about that. One problem though, the pitch of the roof over the area I will build in goes from 6'-10" to 9'-4" next to the house (high wall in the pic). So that won't work for me. Thanks for your ideas though, I appreciate it. :D W

Well, the economy has got me jammed up. Still working, but really busy as we scramble to do more with less at my job. It's all good, but I really wanted to be further along. :( Hanging and learning and staying in the loop. W

Hanging and learning and staying in the loop.

Join the club! - Stuart -

How's the economic situation in Chile Stuart? We are getting womped up here. There are retail closings left and right. I have seen 75% vacancies in retail strip malls in hi-end areas. My job is secure, I work for a major university. But the musicians, they are all struggling. Many are recording at home, and doing anywhere from a bad to mediocre job. But there is opportunity there imo. W

Actually, Chile has been not been hit too badly. The economy is the most stable in Latin America, and ranks high world-wide. It has been managed reasonably sensibly, so the damage should be minimal. That said, things are obviously not fantastic. Mining companies (the life-blood of Chile) have laid off workers, due to the sudden drop in demand for copper. Chile is the world's largest exporter of copper. Commerce in general has slowed down, and everyone is acting cautiously, postponing investments and conserving cash, but unemployment has not risen anywhere near as much as in other places, and the shopping centers are still packed. There is caution, but not panic. People are still buying, and the economy is still running. My sister in law and her husband, who live in Canada, came here for vacations a couple of weeks back, and were surprised by how active things are. When we went to buy some building materials at our local Home Depot equivalent "Home Store", how original !), he told me that there were easily twice or three times as many people in the aisles as he sees in Sears or Home Depot in Canada, buying lots of stuff. And that was just before the end of February, before people got paid. This week, there were even more people in there, carts piled high, and long lines at the checkouts.... "Recession" didn't seem to be on the top of everuone's minds! So I guess I can't complain. My job is also safe, in the sense that I'm self employed and run my own mini-company, so I can't get fired(!!! :) ). But business can still slow down, of course, so I'm also watching my dollars carefully, in planning how to build the studio. Hopefully I'll be able to actually get started in a month or two, as soon as I finish up a couple of projects that are taking up lots of my time. Any idea when you will start actual construction? Any updates on the design? - Stuart -

That's good to hear about Chile's economy and the general sentiment. We have tent cities in California Stuart, and the recent stimulus program, according to a lot of smart people I know, is not any different than the previous administration. Take that fwiw. As for my design, I had contacted John about modifying one of his designs for my space. The small studio design, I think for a friend of his on Oz. Anyway, I had contacted him and he gave me a reasonable quote for design, and the cool thing is his plans would be suitable for permits. A really important thing here in New Jersey. If you do work on your home, and something bad happens, and no permits were taken out, you are SOL on insurance coverage. Very Big Deal. I started a new job at a major university in PA, I live near Philadelphia, and am producing audio and video programming for the internet and overseas cable television stations. This is really taking up tons of my time, as I am a perfectionist to a degree, and I really put my heart into it. It's a legit and stable job but time consuming. In all my reading here, I realized just how much learning there was. Seeing Brien's posts and I am just blown away. You too have learned a great deal here and have picked up alot. I decided that it was way to easy for me to think I learned what I needed to learn and could build one of these straight through without screwing up, NOT! I thought it best to let those who know about these things do the design. I have friends here I can barter with to help on the build when I need it. That is why I haven't posted new design ideas. I am being really careful money wise. Even though the job is steady, prices are not and wifey just finished school so we have some new costs to pony up with that. It has, unfortunately, set me back a bit. I am working on starting an internet business for mixing and mastering. I did set myself up with a workable space at home, not perfect but, believe it or not, better than my old commercial facility. I will get this up off the ground and do some educational programming for an internet "TV" station a friend is starting. So, I am back to square one re-saving for design costs. Hanging out here, because reading the plans isn't everything. You need to know what you are building so you can interpret what the plans are describing. Also, I will need to know when to ask questions. So the learning I get here, will only help me in the long run of meeting my goal. It is just now a bit farther away, but I can wait to do it right. I'm gonna hang here, keep on learning and hopefully make new friends, share ideas and advice and listen to those who know. :thu: W

Hey guys, The economy here in Canada is holding up really well too. Sure, the auto industry (mostly American owned) is suffering a bit and people are hesitant to throw money around (though I think that's mostly to do with the fear-mongering nonsense in the media - oops, I'm getting started :x ). I apparently am not afraid to throw money around and my wife (and staff accountant :wink: hasn't overruled as of yet!) I am severely blessed to be connected with a company that develops audio therapy products. Even though they're based in the U.S the work keeps coming. It's really what is enabling me to do my build! The building stores have been more empty these days where I'm at in Canada (near Toronto) but that's at least partly to do with a lot of competition moving in. In my town of about 90 000 people we only had one truly big box store for home renovations - Home Depot (though there is also a Canadian chain store called Home Hardware, its smaller). Just recently we had a Lowe's move in just down the street from HD and a Rona is currently being constructed. The competition is really good because our materials costs here in Ontario have been and still are quite high.

Glad to hear things are good up north. Sometimes i wish the Lowe's was right next door to Home Depot. That way, I wouldn't have to drive 15 miles to comparison shop. :| W