Open 20'X53'x12' Space for a Design Concept. in USA

Arrrrrrrg I just cant work this sketch up! Ok a room inside of a room................ That means a big room then a smaller room inside it right? If the room next to that room also supposed to be a room inside of a room.....How is this possible when you already have 2 walls constructed 12" thick? The outer CR room now becomes the inner Iso wall! And that wall goes all the way up. From what i have read you dont want to build another inner wall for the Iso room because that would then be 3 walls right? Only solution I see is the inner CR walls Going all the way up and then those walls would now be the outer walls to the Iso and Live room. But now the questions comes well how do you Isolate the Ceiling now in the CR? Do you just add 3 layers of drywall to it or do you do 2 ceilings to the same walls? And if the Perimeter wall and the CR inner walls are the same height how do you cap off the top of those two walls? I understand the perimeter...All of those walls should go up and over but which walls do you take up between the CR,Iso,andLive room?? 1. The inner CR rooms or the Inner Iso and Live room walls? My setup would be just like the one belowe but instead of sliding doors inside of the CR it would be windows the door to the CR would still be there and the doors to the Iso and booth would be where it says slot resonators at the bottom of the Vocal Booth. Width of CR would be 12' and legnth would be 14' A hall way at the bottom of picture 40" wide to the LIve room and rest room. 40" from front of the Glass front to Iso outer wall. Iso Booth would be 5' wide and 7' long. Lenth runs on side of CR. I am really tring to draw this up in skethup but I have it all on paper. Maybe I can find me a scanner and post my paper drawing. I am a Union Carpenter by the Way and I understand contrsution very well thats why this is puzzling me. How do you decouple all walls in this type of situation?

I think you need to read Rod's book to understand the concepts. The diagram you posted is correct: It shows three "inner" rooms next to each other, inside one "outer room". In your case, the existing structure all around is the "outer" leaf. You might need to beef that up with extra mass and extra structural integrity, but you do NOT want ANY part of that outer leaf to touch any part of the "inner" rooms. Neither walls nor ceilings should have any contact at all (between outer and inner), and if possible even the floors should be separated for absolute best isolation. However, it seems that many people do not separate their floors, and they still get good levels of isolation. Think if it this way: you currently have a box with six sides: floor, roof and four walls. That is your outer leaf. Period. All of your other rooms are built INSIDE that shell, and do not touch it anywhere nor do the touch each other (except via the floor, as noted above). Therefore, each of your three rooms is a totally separate "box", with sealed walls around it, and a sealed ceiling on top of it. Period. That's all there is to it. You don't need to build the outer leaf: you already have it. You might need to add more mass to it, but you don't need to build it again, since it already exists. All that you need to do is to build your inner leaf (inner three rooms) as you show in the diagram you posted, with an individual ceiling on top of each one, not touching the other ceilings. You need to make certain that there is no other leaf in there anywhere, such as for example a drop ceiling located between the existing outer leaf ceiling, and the new inner leaf ceiling that you are going to build for each room. The new ceiling for each room rests on top of the new walls for each room, but there is NO connection AT ALL between the three new ceilings (inner leaf) and the existing ceiling (outer leaf). So, basically, you do need to get rid of that drop ceiling: If you leave it in place and build another ceiling below it, then you have three leaves. You cannot use it by itself as your inner leafe, for two reasons: 1) it won't support the weight, and 2) it would create flanking paths between the rooms. It has to go. It is also wasting space: Once you take it out, you will have gained the space above it, so you can now build your new inner leaf ceilings higher, which is good. But the key point is that you want two leaves, and ONLY two. Mass - Air - Mass. Nothing more, nothing less. No drop ceilings in between the outer leaf and the inner leaf, for example. And you should try to keep the two masses of the two leaves as closely balanced as possible (meaning that if you have 3 layers of drywall on your outer leaf, then you should also use three on your inner leaf). But once you get Rod's book, I'm sure you'll understand it much better. He explains it quite clearly.

I bought the book read it and understand "some" of it. Here is the thing. The outerleaf or perimeter of building is not really the outer leaf of the rooms. Becuase I have a 4' space across the front of the building which by the way is mostly glass and then my first wall starts which will only be 7' along the width of the building. This wall is outer leaf of Iso. And on the right it will also be a 40" Hallway along side the outer wall of the CR and Live room that would lead to the back of building. The only true Perimeter wall currently is for the Iso, CR, and Live room is the left wall that runs lenth wise. But I think I got it now! 1. Shit can the Drop Ceiling! 2. Outline "New" Perimeter and take these new walls all the way to the deck (will have to use metal studs for that.) By the way the deck is 15' to the bottom of the Deck which has 24" steel joist runnig under it. Under that is the HVAC pipes and from the top of the current Ceiling Grid to the lowest vent is about 6"! 3. Insulate 4. Build the 3 rooms totally seperate of each other. 5. Insulate 6. Seal the crap out of everything. Now after doing all of this I still only end up with 1 ceiling per room! And the Deck (Roof) becomes the ceiling for the Perimeter. Which would be a "shared 2nd" ceiling for all the rooms! This leads me back to my first question. AIRTIGHT! How could this be airtight and cuase the spring effect if I got one Giganitc Outer room that the other rooms are built in? Which takes me back again to my first train of thought!!! Why do all of that when you could do the same exact thing but not go up to the deck and just go up to the existing Drop Ceiling? It would be the exact same thing! Just minus 5 or 6 feet! All of this is the carpenter in me! Sorry but I am really really trying to understand what would be the difference in Isolation.

It looks like you pretty much have the idea now! It's the drop ceiling that I was concerned about mainly, but now that you've decided to dump that, you seem to be on the right track.

Which takes me back again to my first train of thought!!! Why do all of that when you could do the same exact thing but not go up to the deck and just go up to the existing Drop Ceiling? It would be the exact same thing! Just minus 5 or 6 feet! All of this is the carpenter in me! Sorry but I am really really trying to understand what would be the difference in Isolation.

Height is your friend! If you are going to have 5 or 6 feet of extra space available by ripping out the drop ceiling, then surely you should USE that space! Make your inner rooms 5 or 6 feet higher... More space is good, acoustically. Use every last inch that you can find. If you don't like the idea aesthetically of 12 foot ceilings, you could always still build them that way, use the space for acoustic treatment, then hang some acoustically transparent "ceiling" at whatever height you think looks good. That will lower your ceiling visually, but still give you the extra acoustic space above.

Thx Bro!

Well I took today off work and focused on learning Sketchup and I think I did pretty good. Now I have to find all the cool funiture that I see you guys putting in your drawings but I think this set up will do just fine for me. Tell me what you guys think!

K Now I must sleep!

Great! Looking good! Glad to see that you have mastered SkethUp! But to me it looks like you have your control room laid out backwards! You splayed your walls, which is good, but the wrong way! You have the room getting NARROWER behind you, but it should be getting WIDER. Just turn things around 180 degrees, place your console at the narrow end of the room, with the couch at the wide end. You want the speakers at the narrow end, firing into a wider space' Also, I see that you haven't yet detailed the two-leaf construction of the walls: You are showing it as only one leaf at present: I guess you are going to add the other leaf to your SketchUp model later, once you get the basic layout right? Anyway, congratulations on learning SketchUp! The initial learning curve is a bit rough, but obviously you got way past that already!

Soundman2020 wrote:

Also, I see that you haven't yet detailed the two-leaf construction of the walls: You are showing it as only one leaf at present:

A standard wall is two leaf.

I want to thank all of you guys for helping me out! I am making a donation to the forums after I post this message. So So many things I would have done wrong without the help of you all. Many Many Many thanks! The regular walls in the place will be 4 1/2" thick. The "Walls" in between each of the studio rooms will be 12" thick. I started off doing the double walls but that got old really quick! So I just summed them up and made them 12" thick knowing that it would be two walls in that space. I am off to Menards to price 16' Metal Studs to go to the deck. :( Another thing that is going to hurt me is I cant use Romex wire for this project. I have to run conduit or however you spell it per building code. Anyway these are my final drawings and its off to the Contruction Forum now! I will keep you guys updated! Thanks to everyone and a special thx to Andre THE FREAKING MAN!!! Final Ceiling Height for CR=9' 10 3/16" Final Ceiling Height for Live Room =11' 4" Final Celing Height for Iso=10' Double Door Leading to all three rooms. Glass 3/4" and 1/2" float 40"x60" After I really sat down and added things up when I am finished I would have spent ruffly $12,000 and Results should be very good! Going with original plan of $5,000 Results would have suxed all Monkey ass! Thanks again Guys! Oh yeah BTW I have already started ripping down the Room in the back for a lack of planning things right like was suggested over and over and over and over again on this forum!! My number is [removed] and my name is Ron.