Aaron's "studio" build

Hello to everyone. I have been reading on here for some time now and have read Rod's book. Even posted a couple times some months back. I am feeling pretty ready to move forward. I am building a 20 x 16 single room practice space/jam room. My closest neighbors are about 25 - 30ft. away from where this will be built. I play rock and jazz styles--I am a drummer. I like to play full volume and want to be able to play at full practice volume with a band. This would not be club volume death metal. I would ideally like to play at any hour and not have any worries. Here are some pics of the plans I have. Thanks for taking time to look and please respond if you see fit. aaron

I recommend: 2" more airspace between the walls. 3 layers of drywall on the inside wall instead of 2. If you're going to this much trouble to pour a new slab, make it an isolated one(island). 24 OC works better than 16 OC and you save in materials. Portable A/C won't cut it- you need to get deeper into the HVAC aspect. You'll need fresh air as well. Not just to meet code- you also want to be comfortable! Have you checked out my build? The sound isolation is remarkable- the studio was a complete success in every way. When the studio is finished, the 2 things that will affect you the most will be your sound isolation and your comfort.

thanks for the input studio_drums am i correct to guess if you are recommending 2" more space between walls that this means ceiling as well? though I am sure you are right about the isolation of an "isolated" slab being the best bet, i am pretty set on the monolithic for shear cost purposes. i have thought about a third layer of drywall. the cost isn't that much more. just not sure just how much more of a difference it is going to make with everything else that is already happening. as far as the a/c, i know that the mini splits are the best way to go, i am mostly concerned about cost. i am wondering if i am better off leaving the a/c out of the equation until i am more financially ready to make a decision on that specific aspect.

studio_drums wrote:

Have you checked out my build? The sound isolation is remarkable- the studio was a complete success in every way.

Where can I check it out because I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all the options and wouldn't mind seeing something that has great isolation and air exchange/HVAC>

ajoantmug wrote:

... i am pretty set on the monolithic for shear cost purposes.

That's a good bet. It is damped by the earth and has the whole world behind it, it's a real good idea ;) As long as you are making this a completely unattached to anything else slab, this will work.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight= Is this a free-standing structure? If it is, 1 concrete slab would be fine. I don't think you can leave A/C out of the equation, or fresh air either for that matter...it needs to be accounted for as you're building. Mini-splits still requires tubes and lines and they have to run to the compressor outside. What are you going to do? Drill holes in your beautiful walls after they're already built? I'm a drummer, too. I can tell you that a soundproof room is an airtight room and if you turn on one light bulb and start drumming, you're in for a world of discomfort without fresh air and/or A/C. I didn't want to think about HVAC either, but I'm glad I took the time now. In the beginning all I could think about was wall construction, but there's also doors and HVAC and flooring and sound treatment and lots of other fun stuff to think about. I understand budget may be an issue, but money spent on HVAC and fresh air is money that is well-spent...

This is going to be a completely detached structure. It will be about 25 - 30 feet away from any housing including my own. From what I have read I believe that, at least as far as code is concerned, that having a door directly to the outside satisfies fresh air needs. I am planning on building the superdoor as per Rod's instructions. I am sure that there is probably a wide range that could be spent, but what kind of costs should I think about if I were to go with a mini-split a/c unit?

When your plans are ready, make some calls and get at least 3 quotes from reputable HVAC guys for a mini-split installation. Expect 2-3 K.

got permits today for: building electrical mechanical (mini-split)

So I have started to dig for the footers. 18" below soil is code here in Virginia. This is going to be a monolithic pour. The substrate is good so I am looking at laying the rebar grid at 1' 6" in the top 1/3 of the slab, which is to be 6" thick. I do have a question about the rebar in the area of the footers and I can't seem to find the answer through my searches. How far should my grid extend towards the exterior sides of the footers? Should there be rebar vertically in the footers? How should the horizontal rebar going around the perimeter of the footers be positioned? At what height? I will post some pictures soon of my progress. I have moved my privacy fence 10' back towards the alley and started the dig. Things are actually underway!

So, the concrete provider says that I have options of getting plasticizers added and/or fiber additives. Can you tell me the pros and cons for each of these options? I am getting gravel delivered tomorrow and picking up the rebar as well. Thanks in advance

People have been putting extra water in concrete for decades to make it flow from the chute into the form and still be able to rake or shovel it around as needed. Plasticizers make it so less water has to be used in your mix and the workability is still there. Less water results in a higher strength slab. If you have experienced personal handling your pour, ask their preference. It is recommended that wire mesh be used in a slab on grade. Fiber was introduced as a means to control the thin cracking that can happen with concrete, that was formerly controlled by mesh. I have poured sidewalks and driveways with fiber in the pour and no mesh, but used close spaced control joints. Because cracks are the enemy of isolation, both, wire mesh and fiber, would be a good idea if the cost is in your budget. Especially since you will not be placing control joints in this floor. If not, wire mesh is a requirement, at least @Exit 4. An experienced finisher is a good idea to have on hand.

Thanks Xspace

It is recommended that wire mesh be used in a slab on grade. Fiber was introduced as a means to control the thin cracking that can happen with concrete, that was formerly controlled by mesh. I have poured sidewalks and driveways with fiber in the pour and no mesh, but used close spaced control joints. Because cracks are the enemy of isolation, both, wire mesh and fiber, would be a good idea if the cost is in your budget. Especially since you will not be placing control joints in this floor. If not, wire mesh is a requirement, at least @Exit 4.

I am planning on doing the #3 rebar every 1' 6" in the top 3rd of the slab, which will be 6" thick. Do you believe I should still use the mesh as well? Would the fibers be enough with the rebar spaced as such to not worry about mesh or control joints? Thanks for your input

ajoantmug wrote:

I am planning on doing the #3 rebar every 1' 6" in the top 3rd of the slab, which will be 6" thick. Do you believe I should still use the mesh as well? Would the fibers be enough with the rebar spaced as such to not worry about mesh or control joints? Thanks for your input

Using rebar is labor intensive and runs the cost up. If I were doing this, mesh and fiber would be it, no rebar >except< in the footers. And that would be 1/2" rebar. Tied joints in the rebar overlaps need to be tight to be of any use. Tight. You can use the 3/8" rebar, but maybe a tighter grid of 6-8 inches would help along with the fiber. But you wouldn't need the mesh and the rebar mat both. The one single biggest thing you can do to make a solid pour is to have a well compacted base to pour on. You are installing gravel of some kind, iir, so make certain it has that well compacted base. This is the area that will give way from erosion and what have you over the years and bring bad results to an otherwise good pour. Me personally, I would abide by whatever is current building procedure in your area as it relates to this concrete.

Good news: the inspection for the monolithic passed so I am ready to get in poured. Bad news: it has been raining almost daily ever since. Close to four inches in the last week. Also, I apparently suck at building an a-frame cover with the tarp. Hopefully the rain stops and it stays dry long enough before it just stays cold around here.

Happy New Year everyone. Well, there was finally some good weather......on Christmas Eve!!! 10:00 am. First pour of 8 yards 10:45 am . Truck has been unloaded and leaves 11:30 am. Second truck of 6 yards arrives 12:15 pm. Truck has been unloaded and leaves 4:15 pm. Finished!! There were four of us working on it up to the point that the second truck was unloaded. Then one man had to leave. Three people worked the concrete through the completion of the screed. Man, that was not easy. Two of us finished--myself placing j-bolts and doing the edging, my buddy Mike doing all of the troweling/floating. I have never done such back breaking work. I worked in landscaping for many years and none of that touched what we did on the 24th. I was sore for several days afterwards, but relieved that this portion is done. I got the forms off today and finished putting the fence back up. Haven't taken pictures of that yet, but here's one of Mike working his magic. By the way, the weather has been nearly perfect for curing since the pour. Hopefully going to place a lumber order tomorrow.

Sweet. Ya know it helps to spray water on it during the curing stages. Not Mike, just the slab.

yes, after the final float we covered it with 6 mil poly and then put a tarp up like a tent over that. I sprayed it down later that night (under the poly of course) and again the following morning. the poly kept the moisture in pretty well. we were out of town for a few days for the holidays and when we got back I pulled all the covers off and though the concrete was not "wet" the poly was covered with moisture on the underside.

Well sure, if you laid it on the ground it would do the same thing, collect moisture:). But spray water on it every day, "they say" for the first 27 days if at all possible.

Good going! Nice Christmas present for ya! I bet you always wanted a few tons of concrete for Christmas, right? :) It's always great to see a large chunk of advance all at once. Congratulations! - Stuart -

Forms removed, slab hosed off, fence mended. I didn't mention before, but I got 4000 psi with fibers and a slump of 4".

Well, it has been fairly cold, which makes it hard to work outside, but we've been trying to keep at it. Sick children don't further the cause either. The initial framing is just about finished. The walls are finished, but for a couple of nailers to tack on. The door got framed out today. Hoping to get the rafters framed tomorrow. So, if the attic is going to be unused and inaccessible, is it necessary to put cross bracing on the joists? What about the interior ceiling? I thought the walls would have gone a little bit faster, but I guess it takes twice as long when you are doing double the walls. I went ahead and picked up the green glue today. I found a place in town at $160 a case! They also carry the automatic drop door bottoms and thresholds and acoustical caulk, so I got those as well. They sell a neoprene gasket for doors as well, but I wasn't sure how it would compare to the GM trunk rubber. The name of the place is acoustical solutions, www.acousticalsolutions.com for anyone interested.

Framing is just shy of done. Need to pick up two more joist pieces.

Clean and pretty! A purpose built room from the ground up...what a pleasure this is going to be! Looks good, everything in line, you guys ever do this before ;)? Only thing I did notice is the joist tails aren't bobbed for rafter/pitch. So either you guys are going striaght up with another level or you haven't cut the pitch because...? Nevermind me, I'm just here for the beer!

Thanks xspace, I've never done this before, but I have been reading on here for well over a year now. We didn't bob the joist tails as this box will be sheathed in 2 layers of osb, then there will be a plate placed around the perimeter of the top of the box for the rafters to be placed on with a bird mouth cut.