flippin stop it now please!!!!
James, go and enjoy your saturday, please!! come back in a couple of hours and this will all seem insignificant. you are over reacting a tadge, please give a couple of hours to reflect and all can calm down, any info added here helps us all, but this is turning into static, and that just muddies the picture
Iain
"That same SENIOR MEMBER proceeded to then comment on my construction thread that my materials were crap and that they should be thrown away. "
The only member to say crap, has been you sir.
And for the record...any body living or DEAD that can amass a post count of 50 or HIGHER will be given a Senior member status. So your day is coming.
RO SHOULD be given a Moderator status, my opinion, because he will be out here doing what he can where he can when he can to help. He will continue to help you when ever he gets back from, what time is it in the Netherlands anyway...doesn't matter...the only one that is losing control and changing the issue...is YOU boss.
"defending myself against attacks" /quote
Not yet...if your goal is to set yourself up as a martyr, that forum is three doors down to the left, then hang a right. It is in between "I know just enough to be dangerous" and "Maybe someone had bad information and I have been using it and now it seems I must change my way of thinking about that".
Ga' day mate,
Brien
So, does that mean you are also suggesting that "I'm better off doubling my drywall for room isolation and then building bass/freq absorbers for the walls?"
yes :)
Or are you just harassing me as well?
I do apologize if I made you feel I was harassing you, I wasn't. Just trying to point you in the right directions my friend. As this forum is all about; helping you understand what's cool and what's not when building sound-rooms.
cheers!
Well you know what the general idea of MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl, right?) is here on the board... do you? itsa waste 'o money.
Those blankets, toss'm.
Sounds like crap to me.
xSpace wrote:
the only one that is losing control and changing the issue...is YOU boss.
Really? As I said already. LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL FOUR POSTS. 1 QUESTIONS, 2 COMMENTS, 1 THREAD OF MY OWN. At no point was I screaming, complaining, etc. - until I was mistreated.
xSpace wrote:
if your goal is to set yourself up as a martyr, that forum is three doors down to the left, then hang a right. It is in between "I know just enough to be dangerous" and "Maybe someone had bad information and I have been using it and now it seems I must change my way of thinking about that".
Prime example of the attacks I'm talking about. Your holier-than-thou attitude gives you away.
I have never called myself an expert, and I definitely know more than enough to be dangerous. But I never disputed that my techniques and my materials are the best thing since sliced bread. They are, as I have maintained all along, what I have on hand, and are within my budget.
I'm open for discussion, debate, etc. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is welcome. Your snarky attitude and responses are not.
So, does that mean you are also suggesting that "I'm better off doubling my drywall for room isolation and then building bass/freq absorbers for the walls?"
yes :)
Thank you.
Ro wrote:
JamesCzar wrote:
Or are you just harassing me as well?
I do apologize if I made you feel I was harassing you, I wasn't. Just trying to point you in the right directions my friend. As this forum is all about; helping you understand what's cool and what's not when building sound-rooms. cheers!
at least you get answers, i have one in my design thread, still smiling in rainy bolton though
Iain
Feeling a little bit lonely in your padded cell are you? Well I send you a DIY bazooke construction kit hidden in a birthday cake. I forgot to add the manuel, but you should've enough time 'round ye hands to solve that puzzle.
Now, get the bazooka ready, aim at the door and wait for the guard to check on you. Now when he does, flick of the safetyswitch, hit the button while screaming "KAAABOOOMM, MOTHER! That's for not answering any of my questions, sucka!"
We'll get there Iain :) Just post some pix so it's easier to talk shop.
Beer anyone?
This forum can definitely get grumpy at times, but at the same time lots of people -- esp people without much budget to begin with -- don't respond well to "your ideas/methods are crap, throw it out and start over, doing exactly what we tell you."
We really need to get over that..... :lol:
My understanding of MLV is NOT that it's crap for isolation, but rather that it's not the most cost effective way to go. MLV does add mass, which is necessary for isolation. But another layer or two of sheetrock does just as well if not better, and should be cheaper. Green Glue makes it even better, of course.....
Hang in there with your build.... and don't take things personally unless someone is clearly going out of their way to piss you off. Thick skin is a good thing. There are many really knowledgeable people here on this forum, donating their time and expertise to help others. It's a good resource to be sure, but be patient with people. They really are trying to help.
BTW - I grew up in Cincy and lived there until 1997....
At 45$USD for a 2'X2' panel and 100 bucks a sheet, this isn't low budget.
For all I know he is selling audimute products. Sure pushed them like that.
So it is either someone who has no clue what is happening and why or it is spam.
James,
Welcome to the forum- sorry about your experience so far.
I don't hang out too much since my studio is done, but I still try to contribute sometimes...
I just wanted to say hang in there. It's normal for some posts to get ignored, and to get a little "tough love" around here. And sometimes when you get advice, the truth hurts. But most of the information is generally correct.
Whenever my questions have been overlooked or ignored, or I got some tough advice, it forced me to look(search) harder for the information I was looking for. But in the end, I was wiser for it.
It is true that 99% of any questions regarding soundproofing have already been answered on this board- the answers are here on the stickies, or on links, or within other studio build threads. The other 1% of questions would be unique to your particular situation.
As musicians we're sensitive by nature, but don't take things too personally. A lot of the guys on here are good guys, and if you take the time to know them through their posts or personal build threads, you will see that.
I would just advise you against making decisions on your own and then trying to get validation after the fact. The truth usually stings a bit more than usual in that case!
James - I face some similar issues. Here is an example of what I am putting together.
Keep in mind that this is a basement studio. with 2 walls of each room being separated by 3" from the concrete blocks.
I have 2 isolation rooms that I am building right now, the first is a 10' x 12' drum room the second is a 5' x 12; guitar tunnel / vocal booth.
I have 2 walls (2x4 construction) separated at 1" with 2 layers of drywall on either side (1 layer of 5/8's and 1 layer of 1/2") of the walls assembled with GG between each layer. I have no drywall on the inside of each leaf (wall). I am using high density insulation between the walls, but after cruising this forum and getting advice on my own posts, I have decided that drywall is the way to go. So I stopped there.
The interior walls of each room are decoupled from the ceiling using 1/4" fan fold cut into strips. This is a pretty high density insulation material that is rigid to keep the walls in place, but has a little to no sound transmission.
I am doing nothing but commercial carpeting on the floor since cement is the best isolator and I am building directly on my slab.
The ceilings will have RSIC-V Clips and Hat Channel for decoupling with 2 layers of drywall like the walls 5/8" and 1/2" and GG assembly.
I accepted early on in the project that it would never be sound-proof, and based on my small budget this was the most effective way to go.
I am putting this in the basement of a townhouse.. so my concern is that my neighbors are not severely inconvenienced.
The best advice I got on the forum as well was, "Use More Drywall" and "build a room in a room"... Which is what I am trying to do.
Hope this helps you some...
Because of the windstorm that rocked the midwest (remnants of Ike), we haven't had power for the last four days. I was supposed to start framing in my new fourth wall on Sunday. That didn't happen.
After various input here and re-reading several sources outside of here, I decided to spend the extra money on a second layer of drywall for the entire room, and a double layer on the outside of the two walls which I have access to the other side (top wall on the drawing, and the new wall, right side on the drawing).
I've also decided to augment my ceiling plans with Ethan's idea of using the rafters under my subfloor above as a bass trap. I'm going to install 703 or 705 rigid fibreglass as follows:
Ethan Winer wrote:
For a typical unfinished basement ceiling you can take advantage of the gap between the support beams and the floor above by placing rigid fiberglass between the beams. Short nails or screws can support the fiberglass, making it easy to slide each piece of fiberglass into place. Then cover the fiberglass with fabric as shown below in Figure 3b. You can optionally pack the entire cavity with fluffy fiberglass one foot thick and you'll probably get similar results.
Recovered from web.archive.org — originally hosted at http://www.ethanwiner.com/ceiling.gifTreating a basement ceiling. Figure 3b: 705 between support beams, covered with fabric.
Since I already have a drop ceiling in place (I just have to augment/adjust it for the new wall) below the rafters, I won't have to cover it with fabric. I was considering doing Ethan's suggestion of soft fibreglass above the drop ceiling in addition to the above rafter treatment, but I don't have the space to do so between them.
Ethan Winer wrote:
Treating a "dropped" grid ceiling is even easier: Simply lay fluffy fiberglass batts on top of the grid, above the ceiling tiles. The thicker the fiberglass, the better. One foot thick R38 is perfect for this if you have the space. If you don't want to bother covering the entire ceiling that way, at least put fiberglass batts around the perimeter to treat the important wall-ceiling corners. And since the fiberglass is not exposed to the room and doesn't show, you don't need to cover it with fabric.
As I posted near the beginning, the tiles in the drop ceiling are acoustic, and they'll also be augmented with existing wedge foam on the underside, which I already have. This should at least soften the mids and highs on the ceiling, and hopefully the rafter traps will work as ceiling bass traps. I'd consider building and hanging absorbers and diffusers, but there's just not enough room. The drop ceiling, which is only 2.5 inches below the rafters, is already at less than 7 feet. Anything hanging below that will make the room difficult for tall people - it's already a bit claustrophobic for those taller than me (5' 10.5").
This forum can definitely get grumpy at times, but at the same time lots of people -- esp people without much budget to begin with -- don't respond well to "your ideas/methods are crap, throw it out and start over, doing exactly what we tell you."
Exactly.
xSpace wrote:
At 45$USD for a 2'X2' panel and 100 bucks a sheet, this isn't low budget. For all I know he is selling audimute products. Sure pushed them like that. So it is either someone who has no clue what is happening and why or it is spam.
Well, if you were paying attention, I've never bought their expensive absorber panels. Instead I'm building my own, based on a modified version of Ethan's plans, considering a few other tips/tricks I've found/been advised on. I've only bought the cheaper sound blankets from Audimute, and their budget version of MLV. Both of which have, worked very well for me in the past. I've never recommended any of the other Audimute products, as I don't have any experience with them. I live in Cincinnati, they are from Cleveland. I was originally turned on to them by experienced film/video sound mixers who have used their blankets in the field with much success. I was also happy to find that their Peacemaker product (MLV alternative) is made from recycled material. I could care less if you buy their products or not. I have only expressed my own and my associates' experience with the two budget products by them that we have used in the past.
I had Rod's book, but loaned it out. I'm getting it back tomorrow, so I may be able to answer my question with it. But I'll throw it out here anyway:
So, I don't have enough space in the walls to make them true bass absorbers - they're built with 2x4s. And I don't have enough space in the basement to build a inner wall, or expand the current wall cavities to be deeper. My question is this: as shallow as they are, should I leave the walls hollow between the double drywall on either side? Or should I fill the walls with soft fibreglass insulation between the double drywall? NOTE: I'm looking for a decent degree of isolation because of neighbors.
I'm sorry to step in but i think this post is going nowhere.
This is not about bahsing anyone... This forum is to help people.
James, i'm sory but i think your taking the wrong attitude here. Just respect everyone's opinion and don't "snap" just because you "think" somebody told you something the wrong way...
There are members from all over the globe and words like "TOOL" mean different thing here or there... Nobody is trying to Scr*w you... Exactly the opossite.
Personally i've never seen any Senior members doing nothing but helping people here and putting them in the right path. The effort and time they put on reading our questions is priceless!
Sure it sucks if you spend several $K only to find out that you did something wrong... But don take it against the person that tells you that to help you.
Peace.!!! And carry on with your build :wink:
God Bless.
I have moved on from the BS earlier. I just wanted it to be clear that I DO NOT work for Audimute, nor do I recommend any products I have not used myself or had reliable recommendations about from experienced people. And I pointed out that I agree with JWL's sentiment.
ale_recording wrote:
I'm sorry to step in but i think this post is going nowhere.
I am trying to get it back on track. That's why I posed my QUESTION.
JamesCzar wrote:
I had Rod's book, but loaned it out. I'm getting it back tomorrow, so I may be able to answer my question with it. But I'll throw it out here anyway:
So, I don't have enough space in the walls to make them true bass absorbers - they're built with 2x4s. And I don't have enough space in the basement to build a inner wall, or expand the current wall cavities to be deeper. My question is this: as shallow as they are, should I leave the walls hollow between the double drywall on either side? Or should I fill the walls with soft fibreglass insulation between the double drywall? NOTE: I'm looking for a decent degree of isolation because of neighbors.
The subtitle of the Studio Construction Forum on the main forums page is "How thick should my walls be, should I float my floors (and if so, how), why is two leaf mass-air-mass design important, etc." Thus my question.
Or should I fill the walls with soft fibreglass insulation between the double drywall? NOTE: I'm looking for a decent degree of isolation because of neighbors.
Or should I fill the walls with soft fibreglass insulation between the double drywall? NOTE: I'm looking for a decent degree of isolation because of neighbors.
Due to two main factors, I have decided to change my design.
First of all, my wife and I decided that I should expand the space used for the studio into an area that we were previously going to put a pool table as part of a rec room that took most of the rest of the basement. We decided we really didn't care if we had a pool table and that it was a waste of space. So I have approximately another 10x13 space to add to the original 12x19 space.
Secondly, I have allocated a bit more to the budget of the project, understanding that I'm going to stage the construction over a longer period, with interim goals so that we can get into the space sooner than later. As mentioned in the beginning, we need to be practicing here ASAP, because we're being kicked out of our guitarist's basement. My new plan involves getting the basic construction of the live room/practice room done sooner, and staging the construction of the control room and room treatments for later. This will spread my costs out, as well as get us up and running sooner.
I'll be starting a new post in the design forum to discuss the design in the new space, while I work on demolition of the new area that I've annexed for this project. So from here out, consider this thread finished.
JC - good for you man. I think that you will look back and think this is the best decision you could have made. You are in for a great ride -- you already started it actually -- so keep your eye on the prize, which is a great, functional studio that does exactly what you need it to do. You'll get there before you know it.
