My Basement Studio- ready to ask questions

I say I am ready to ask questions because when I first started my thread months ago, I had not read all the rules, done all the research and thought all the way through. I even have a (although poor) drawing. My area: I live in an end unit townhouse in PA with 8" solid concrete (not block) walls between my one neighbor and 12" solid concrete between me and the outside area. Also, my floors are solid concrete as well. The ceiling height is 8'. My new room dimensions will be 17'x13'x8' What I want to build: A room primarily used for teaching drums. I would ideally like to have 2 full kits setup (4 piece kits). I also plan on doing recording, although it will be minimal, maybe small bands, one instrument at a time. What I want to accomplish: I want to stop as much of the sound transmission as possible to the upper floors of my house. For instance, when my patient thus far girlfriend is watching TV above my room, I want her to be as peaceful as possible. Although a good sounding room is something I would like, the blocking of sound from going out of the room is my goal. I want to do this by creating a room within a room. What I found out so far: I spoke to my neighbor and saw their basement and found out it is not that loud at all when I play my drums. I tested it at 25 decibels softer at their basement, directly across from where my new room will be then it is at my upstairs. That is with their basement finished and insulated and my basement bare concrete. I was actually pretty happy with that and sorta shifted my goal to keeping the sound from exiting the studio. MY PLAN!! On the floor: neoprene padding ontop of the entire 17x13 area. Even though it is not a typical "floating floor", I figure it will atleast give seperation from the bottom plate of the wall frame and the concrete. Walls- Normal 4" plates with 2x4 studs ever 16". All of the plates will go on top of the padding rather then directly on the concrete. I will then insulate it and put 1 layer of drywall and have it seperated from my concrete wall about 3" from concrete to beginning of frame (5" from concrete to center of frame". I figure the mass, air, mass will do well for stopping transmission out to the neighbors house. Ceiling- Right now I have open joists at 10" apart. I plan to fill all the area with R-38 insulation to as close to the bottom of the joist as possible. Then place the needed RSIC clips on the bottom of the joists and put the RC-2 track on the clips. On that, I will put my double layer of 5/8" drywall. Door- My main entrance door will be a solid exterior door, not a hollow door. The frame of the door will be attached to the RC-2 track as well. On the top left section of the picture below will be another door. This will be hollow, but acoustically treated. It is there so I can continue to access the water heater, so I sorta need that access. Upon completion, I will lay down laminant flooring Electricity is taken care of with my carpenter that is helping me. As far as ventilation goes, there is a vent that is right outside my door that faces the studio. My plan is to leave the door open while I am not in there to have air flow. When I am in, I can get a cheap ventilator. This might not be the best solution, but I think it will work. I basically worked out this design with my Uncle who did the same thing about 10 years ago and has had no issues with sound directly above his studio. Budget: Is not an issue. This does not mean I am going to be spending 10's of thousands of dollars, but I know exactly what materials I need to buy and have given myself an extra 1,500 just incase. My questions: When connecting the ceiling to the wall, should the top plate be directly below the ceiling, causing the ceiling to be 4" longer over the plate, or should the top plate look like an extension of the ceiling after it is caulked? I do know to leave that 1/4" gap between the two, but that is my main question. Should my top plate connect to the top of the RC Channel? The top plate in one direction would go all the way across and the top plate in another direction would go every 10" with the joist. I guess my main question is how to get the wall stable. I would think that if I have my wall connected to an RC channel and have it connected with caulk to the ceiling, it would be stable, no? Hopefully I did not forget anything.

anyone??

My only recommendation would be to let that carpenter friend of your do all the framing and if he's a professional he would know what the building code would say about framing a ceiling in your country. rod probably has something to say to you about it, so if your patient he'll probably drop by and give you more directions. best a :arrow:

i would say to build your walls directly on the concrete floor, concrete is the best isolator as far as the ceiling, with 8' of space from floor to ceiling i might suggest building an independent ceiling attached just to your new walls. This will provide a true room-in-room construction as well as save you money on clips and rc-2 the biggest part of isolating sound transmission is to make sure that your new room framing DOES NOT touch the existing structure of the house at any point (including ceiling with clips). Obviously the walls would be directly connected to the concrete floor, but again, concrete is the best isolator. I am no means a professional...just throwing in my 2 cents

thanks for the heads up guys. I thought the idea behind the RC-2 and clips is that it would essentially create a RWAR, no? How would I go about attaching my ceiling to the frame rather then RC clips?

im not sure what RWAR is but yes the clips are made to reduce the transmission through the structure but will not provide as much isolation as not touching the existing structure all together see how i did my ceiling http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11104

Sorry, RWAR- Room within a Room. I did measure my room again this morning and found that from the bottom of the joists to the cement floor is 7'8", so 4 inches less then 8 feet. Will that change your theory of no RC?

well it doesnt change my theory of rc but space is certainly something to think about for your room design.. a true room-in-room would have its own ceiling. When height restricts your ability to do that, than rc clips are the next best thing. My last control room had that same height issue and i went with rc clips. What i noticed was the transmission of low frequencies to the room above.. being that you are using the room for drums i would think you will run into the same issue.. but only you know how much isolation is needed. clips are certainly better than nothing but not as good as independent ceiling. Not sure how comfortable i would feel in a room thats 7' finished tho. If you havnt already done so, buy rods book. He has a technique to build an independent ceiling maximizing the height with x bridging. not sure if thats applicable with 2x4 ceilings or just 2x6 ceilings. Just something to think about and thought i would share my own experience.

Instead of double joists for a floating ceiling, you can use hangers like Kinetics Noise model ICW. Better isolation than rc and minimal loss of ceiling height compared to double joists. Don't worry about the concrete floor. It will not be your weak link. Andre

that sounds like a happy medium.. maximizes ceiling height and provides better isolation than standard clips... and if u didnt already know.. andre is the man

The ICW clip seems pretty interesting. My only questions regarding that is how I would go around insulationg the joist? If I were to stuff the joist, wouldn't it not allow the ICW clip to function properly? It seems to work the same way as an RC clip, in that the metal furring channel is involved, except this now brings in a channel clip as well that runs parallel to the joist. The difference looks to be that you can have a 1/2" gap from your joist to the top of your furring strip, rather then the 3" you would get from the RC clip. Also, can someone help me as to how I am to stablize the the top of my walls without connecting them to the joist? Can I connect the top plate of each wall frame to the furring strip as well and then seal the gaps with caulk?

after briefly looking at the ICW page, i believe it says to use 3.5" insulation which would be r-13 (i may have been mistaken). I do not see any reason why insulation would cause it not to work properly. As far as your walls go, u fasten the bottom plate to the concrete with a powder actuated gun (Hilti, remington,etc.) which can be rented from local tool rental and happens to be a lot of fun to use!! That is all you need to fasten the walls up. That tool drives a steel pin into the concrete and is standard procedure for any concrete floor (basements, etc).

Thanks RS- Glad to see someone here from the EST. Actually, you are near me mile wise too. Thanks for all of your help, and Andre, thanks for the link to the ICW clips. So, I can just freestand the wall. What would the order of construction be? I would think the ICW clips, Resiliant Channel, then the walls, do all the walls, put the drywall on the ceiling (after insulation), and finally put on my laminate flooring.

Thanks RS- Glad to see someone here from the EST. Actually, you are near me mile wise too. Thanks for all of your help, and Andre, thanks for the link to the ICW clips.

no problem, just trying to help as people have helped me on this board!!

So, I can just freestand the wall. What would the order of construction be? I would think the ICW clips, Resiliant Channel, then the walls, do all the walls, put the drywall on the ceiling (after insulation), and finally put on my laminate flooring.

Its not freestanding if its fastened to the floor but yes fastening to floor is sufficient. As far as order, it sounds easier than it is. You can do it in whichever order you are comfortable with. i did my walls first in both builds. I read on another post that andre suggests to leave 1/4" gap btw ceiling and walls and then caulk the gap (he might want to chime in on this). Also make sure u drywall the ceiling first, then walls, then ceiling, then walls. You should also run all electrical and audio/video wiring before you put the walls up :wink:

templejazz82 wrote:

So, I can just freestand the wall. What would the order of construction be? I would think the ICW clips, Resiliant Channel, then the walls, do all the walls, put the drywall on the ceiling (after insulation), and finally put on my laminate flooring.

The USG gypsum handbook is linked in the stickies. It is the bible for gypsum and free. The best resource to help you now is Rod's book. There are still many things that you may not think are important will be if done wrong. Good luck Andre

Thanks for all your help RS and Andre. I have order Rod's book, I am just waiting for the delivery, at some point! Thanks again.

Hey Guys- I ran into a slight problem, which I think can be easily resolved. I need to put up a new wall, and it needs to connect to an existing wall that will not be part of the studio. The new studio wall will be connected to the wall which is the front wall to my bathroom. I attached an image below, and put "???" with a line to the gap between the two walls. I am wondering if I can connect these two walls with caulk the same way I would connect the wall to ceiling. Thoughts?

well, since my last visit, a few things have happened. 1) I got Rod's book. Wow, I think I have read it about 3 times cover to cover and have been reading it over all my lunch breaks. Rod, you did a fantastic job. I wish I had gotten it before I got my house! 2) I made a blueprint for exactly what I want to do. I will try to do the blueprint and post it on here. Right now it is just a hand drawn one. Some obstacles/questions: A) When creating cross-bridging in the joist, is it important to do it at more then one spot? I am planning on putting one layer of 5/8" drywall between the joist, with the 1/4" backer rod and caulk. From there, I will put a set of cross bridging up. If I go across all the way at one point, so I need to do it somewhere else? Also, should I just find the middle of the room, and use that section as to where I start them, so it is balanced with the room? B) I have a stairwell in the middle of my room, the left will be the studio, the right will be just a rec room for the family. With regards to the walls- I plan on using 2x4 frames, double drywall with a 1" gap from the fram to the foundation with insulation on the 3 walls that face the foundation. With the fourth wall that runs along the stairwell and entrance, I plan on a double wall system. The system will be 2x4, 1" gap, 2x4 with double drywall on the inside. I know that you should have a 2-leaf system, so my question is about the outside wall that will be facing my stairwell (actually running along with the stairwell) as well as my door entrance- How do I go about getting the drywall on the outside of my frame when I have a set of stairs to contend with? Also, I have the an area to the right of my stairs that is a storage closet, to the right of that is where the new wall will go. How much of a gap should I have from the new wall to the exactly wall. The space below the stairs would be open if not for this wall, if that gives you a picture. The picture resembles page 223, figure 10.3 in Rod's book to a T. C) With my air system, I have centrail air conditioning. If I split the duct, and create my own vent to the studio, would the soundproofing be done with with way I have seen people do it be lining the inside of the new duct that is going to the studio? It looks like a foam version of a staggered stud wall. I beleive Brad Jacob's studio build was done that way. D) Finally- with a double wall construction, do you just leave the 1" gap there and deal with it from an astetics standpoint, or do you seal that end so that you can not see down the 1" gap. It would seem to me that sealing it and the end of the frame would defeat the purpose of the double wall construction, no? Thanks for any tips you can give.

anyone out there with some help??

Pictures would really help here. Trying to put a picture together in our minds is a little slow with your wording. No offense. Can you explain a little better why you need a double wall by the staircase? I'm just not getting it. Here's what I recommend for you based on what I can understand about your situation. My motto is keep it simple: 1) Beef up the existing floor/ceiling with drywall between the studs- at least two layers of the thickest drywall you can handle. And of course backer rod and caulk. This needs to be done before anything else. 2) Build a RWAR- but without a floating floor. Just bolt the walls to the existing concrete pad. You can elevate the drums inside the room once you're finished (not the same but will help). Your ceiling joists should run parallel to the existing ones- but actually inside them a little(like the above poster's) but with the bottom lower than the bottom of the existing ones. This will maximize your ceiling height and isolate your room structurally. 3) Research your HVAC options a little more. Sight unseen, I'm thinking that you can build silencer boxes into the walls and exchange air with the rest of the basement. Whether or not that meets code is a different story. Tying the vent into your room I'm guessing won't do much but take away from the rest of the house. Heat will never be a problem. As far as cooling, you could install a mini-split, and I recommend that highly. If you're building that second wall for aesthetics only, you need to think of a better alternative.

"A) When creating cross-bridging in the joist, is it important to do it at more then one spot?" Most of what goes on in this situation is people remove existing bridging and then reinstall the same material. If your overhead does not have bridging why would you install it?

Thanks xSpace. I thought that since I was going to be putting in drywall between the joists, putting the cross bridging in would be needed for support purposes?

How far a span are you talking about? It must be 8-10 feet or so? The bridging you are wanting to install would make the above floor individual framing members act more like one unit then many individual members. It will also take the spring, if any exists, out of the above floor if it is in fact a short span.

The span I have for my joist is 15 feet across.

Hi everyone- Framing started. Rod, your book is fantastic. My carpenter read it and was blown away by it, only because he has never done a studio before. Thanks for the great info in there. For my air set up- I have two ducts running to the floors about that I could split off to get cold/hot air in there. My question is this- 1) how do I soundproof the inside of the duct that is going to the studio to pump air? I would assume the sound would travel right through the vent to the rest of the house, thus making isolation created rather pointless. 2) how do I go about getting fresh air into the studio? My door opens to the rest of the basement, which about 15 feet away leads to a door going outside. How do I go about getting fresh air in there? My current air system in the house is central air, and my air unit is right outside my basement.