Basement Studio Plans in NJ

Hello to all, I have been an avid reader of this forum for some time now and the amount of knowledge is overwhelming! There are a lot of techniques used for many different applications. This is my 2nd studio project to date so i am not completely oblivious to this type of work. My current project is to build a control room and iso booth within an already finished basement. The space is a total of 15'x18' w/2 different ceiling heights (8' & 7'). The space is already single-stud framed with paneling surface into 2 small sections with a dropped ceiling. The control room will be 15'x11'x8' The iso booth will be 7'x6'x7' I would like to keep my budget under $1500 and will be doing the work myself. The primary style of music i record/produce is electronic "dance" music which obviously produces a lot of low-frequency. No i am not a teenager but would like to be able to work at 4am :) The main goal is to isolate the sound to the basement. (i have room-mates as well as neighbors who call the cops when my tv is too loud!) It is a townhouse with 1 common wall As you will see in horribly amateur drawings, the only new framing will be between the control room and iso booth. In this drawing, the BLUE lines indicate where the existing studs are. The RED lines indicate where the new studs will go. The BLACK dot indicates where theres is a steel support. My plan is to tear off the paneling and use the existing studs as my frame. I also plan to rip out the dropped ceiling and frame in a "floating" 2x4 ceiling, that only connects to the studio walls and NOT any existing structure from the rest of the house. (the exterior walls of the basement are concrete) My first question is whether or not i CAN use the existing studs for a proper room. My thoughts are that as long as i can decouple the framing from the rest of the housing structure i should be in descent shape. Correct me if im wrong, but that would be a room-within-a-room and a single-leaf design?!?! The iso booth will also be seperate framing from the control room. I obviously want to utilize the materials that are already down there to keep the costs down but i also do not want to invest anything if it will not be sufficient isolation. So if a double-stud wall is absolutely necessary that i will consider it. My 2nd terrible drawing shows the materials i plan to use in my wall construction. the SSP clips (pictured below) might have another name, but thats what they are called from a certian soundproofing company. I plan on using them for all 4 walls of the CR as well as the ceiling with RC-2 hats. My 2nd question is if this will be sufficient for my low-frequency isolation needs for my wall construction or if i need more mass. Or if any of the materials i plan on using are a wast of money! I currently monitor with 2 krk rockit 8's. They are not the loudest ever but do pack enough punch to drive anybody crazy in the area. Overall, i want to do this with the lowest budget possible but also dont want to waste any time or $ doing a job that will not se sufficient. Thanks in advance for any responses. If anybody needs more details for an appropriate response, feel free to ask. And i apologize in advance for the drawings.

The biggest problem is your ceiling, not the concrete block walls. I see no details on door sound isolation. That gets expensive very quickly as increased isolation is desired. You do not need clips on your concrete wall drywall. A good point! You will need to beef up the walls between the recording space and furnace room. MLV is a waste of money in that application. You need about 25 iso-clips for the ceiling. @$5.00 that is $125. Green Glue at recommended application rate is around $30 per sheet of drywall. That is around $240 just for the ceiling. I see nothing about heating/ventilation ducts and vents. Your $1,500 budget is not sufficient. Honestly, Andre

Thanks for the reply AVare! You are correct i did not mention some things, but i do have them covered. I use an exterior solid-core door as every door, with closed-cell foam around the jams to increase isoloation. As far as ventilation goes, i remove the basement window and replace it with a piece of plywood with pvc on the outside and 2 dryer vents hooked up. I then run 2 seperate lines of insulated duct to the room. I install 2 duct fans that go inside the insulated ducting, 1 blowing fresh air in, 1 sucking air out. I then run those fans to their own switches inside the room. :) Great way to get fresh air into a room. I am also familiar with the proper caulking and drywall techniques. So MLV is a waste completely?!? or just on the walls? What else could i do to beef up the ceiling and the walls to the furnace room? U say clips are a waste on the walls, what about regular RC's? Or are u saying i dont need to go overboard with my type of application? I know i will also have questions about the walls btw the CR & iso but i havnt even got there yet

and as far as the budget goes, i currently have an 8x10x7 control room at another location. I plan on using the materials from that room, in this one. I have 20 clips from that ceiling, 1 solid-core door and the ventilation system. As well as 335 sq ft of MLV. Its probably not the best idea to re-use the MLV since it will have some holes in it, but if i just need it for the ceiling and wall for the furnace room/ iso, then i can even double up. The only other expense will be the drywall @ $5.45/4x8 sheet and the green glue (5 cases @ $875). The major issue i have in my current CR is the low-frequency travel into the living space above. But i did connect my CR ceiling to the floor joists directly in my currect CR. I was hoping that framing a new independent ceiling in my new room would correct this. Please let me know if im heading in the right direction.

rsmooth wrote:

I use an exterior solid-core door as every door, with closed-cell foam around the jams to increase isoloation.

I hope the door is heavy. That is what stop low frequencies.

As far as ventilation goes, i remove the basement window and replace it with a piece of plywood with pvc on the outside and 2 dryer vents hooked up. I then run 2 seperate lines of insulated duct to the room. I install 2 duct fans that go inside the insulated ducting, 1 blowing fresh air in, 1 sucking air out. I then run those fans to their own switches inside the room. :) Great way to get fresh air into a room.

More information please. The plywood sounds suspect. Also there are no house ducts in the ceiling?

I am also familiar with the proper caulking and drywall techniques.

Great!

So MLV is a waste completely?!? or just on the walls?

In studio applications a complete waste of money.

What else could i do to beef up the ceiling and the walls to the furnace room?

Additional layers of drywall, or whatever is cheapest for adding mass. For the ceiling iso-clips or similar.

U say clips are a waste on the walls, what about regular RC's? Or are u saying i dont need to go overboard with my type of application?

They are overboard with the concrete being the other leaf. you weak point is the ceiling.

I know i will also have questions about the walls btw the CR & iso but i havnt even got there yet

Keep the questions coming. You ignored my point about budget. Andre

thanks again Andre, the door is heavy.. it seems to do the trick with the setup i currently have. As far as ventilation goes i will post a picture of the current setup. the plywood just acts as a frame for the dryer vents. The new space does have 2 ducts in the ceiling. Not sure if u are suggesting that i tap into these for cooling/heating purposes but i would like to stay away from these as they will certainly transmit sound throughout the house. As far as the MLV, im a little surprised that it is un-effective (i may have been had by the company that sold it to me). i would assume adding MLV would add mass. With the ceiling i will certainly add more layers of drywall. I just have to be careful with load capacity of my new ceiling. Would u say green glue is not important on all 4 walls? if so great. As far as budget goes. I may be blind to the actual costs im looking at. As far as i can see the only materials i will need to buy is drywall, GG, some 2x4's for ceiling and acoustic caulk. Ventilation, screws, fiberglass insulation, 20 iso clips w hats i already have. And most of the framing is already up. With the walls between CR & iso, what would u suggest. i was thinking CR wall - stud (w insulation) - air - stud (w/ins) drywall-drywall... as far as i can see.. adding more layers of mass between the 2 rooms will make for problems..air seems to be the best isolator Also, would adding mass to the existing ceiling/1st floor-floor before i even construct my new ceiling be a good idea?? ive read some posts about ppl adding drywall thanks in advance

these are the pics of the current ventilation system These are the dryer vents in place of the window (inside view) This is outside view These are the switches in the CR And this is 1 of 2 registers in the CR As you can see there is no soundproofing involved for this other than the registers inside the CR The new room will have the same setup except the window will be inside the CR...i plan to frame out where the window is now and treat it as a wall inside CR

Hi guys, AVare said:

You do not need clips on your concrete wall drywall.

I'm a little confused Andre, wouldn't you need some kind of decoupling applied to the wall to avoid the studs conducting sound to the structure? Regardless of whether or not there's concrete behind it, the wall structure is still going to become a flanking path to the ceiling and rest of house. Isn't it ? Thanks a lot

Eran wrote:

Regardless of whether or not there's concrete behind it, the wall structure is still going to become a flanking path to the ceiling and rest of house. Isn't it ?

The ceiling will have to be floating separately from the walls. The iso clips will provide the physical decoupling from the joists The gap between the walls and ceiling being filled with acoustic caulk with backer rod. This is to avoid exactly what you described. Good eyes! Impressed, Andre

rsmooth: You gave lots of good information in your last two posts and I haven't able to word the complete response. Some things you brought up and I can do quickly are: MLV is overpriced for what it does. If you have it, use it, but don't buy any more. The vents provide "flanking paths" for sound. IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE IT ALREADY, BUY ROD'S BOOK. It that and much more. Andre

The vents provide "flanking paths" for sound. IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE IT ALREADY, BUY ROD'S BOOK. It that and much more.

Already one step ahead!! ordered it yesterday and is in route!! Very interesting about the flanking... never really thought that would cause a problem.. Anyways thanks for the replys and keep em coming as i will do all research necessary to get the job done right b4 i begin construction Thanks Andre [/quote]

With the walls between CR & iso, what would u suggest. i was thinking CR wall - stud (w insulation) - air - stud (w/ins) drywall-drywall... as far as i can see.. adding more layers of mass between the 2 rooms will make for problems..air seems to be the best isolator

That would be one choice. The big question is how much isolation you will get from the ceiling. There is no sense to build the wall with greater isolation than the ceiling. The other limiting factor is the ventilation system. BTW congratulations on doing it right. Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction. Obviously you know this.

just curious as to where you are in jersey. i'm in hackettstown. northwest jerz. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8205 thats my build. done for a bit.

thanks for the responses guys! Andre, i was planning on 3-4 layers of drywall for the ceiling with iso clips and rc-2 channels with green glue between 1 layer (also with backer rod and caulk at seems) Andre, u seem to think that the fresh air system i will use will cause flanking?? i assumed the use of insulated flex duct would be good for isolation. Any other suggestions on getting fresh air into the rooms? There is another window in the CR room that i plan on putting an ac unit in.. i plan on making some sort of "trap door" that i can close to seal that part off when the AC unit is not running. DynaMike, Thanks for the link! Good to see your work! Im sure i will have continuous questions as this project goes on. I am still in the planning stage as to get a tru understand of what needs to get done and the best way to do it. Anything u would like to chime in as of now? Rods book is awesome by the way! A great referance and guide.. Pretty much looks like mass and caulk is the way to achieve maximum isolation.. all these "soundproofing" products out there are a waste..

oh and mike, im in hillsborough NJ.. somerset county... are those RC-2 hats in ur build?? if so where did u get them

all these "soundproofing" products out there are a waste.. /quote Why would you say that?

i meant products like homasote 440 and Mass Loaded Vinyl, which were my biggest budget busters on my last project.

depends on how you use them. MLV as mass is generally a waste because its cheaper (in most cases) to get 5/8 drywall. MLV as a limp mass behind the drywall can be useful - armed with the knowledge it has some impact as a 3rd leaf (if its a separate layer), but might help with some low frequency absorption (just not in-between drywall layers - use Green Glue). homasote can be useful for acoustic wave guides (hangers) when wrapped with dacron insulation and suspended in bass traps. in some cases you use it because you need a "soft" layer somewhere. sometimes an on-hand supply matters more than expanding the budget to buy other products.

Hey Glenn, Thanks for the knowledge!!

MLV as a limp mass behind the drywall can be useful - armed with the knowledge it has some impact as a 3rd leaf (if its a separate layer), but might help with some low frequency absorption (just not in-between drywall layers - use Green Glue)

So isnt this the same as my original plan for my wall/ceiling build in my illustration?

And Andre, I think i need to flush my $1500 budget down the toilet!! I should have done this from the start considering my last project cost twice as much for an 8'x10'x7' multi purpose room. I plan on calling in a local contractor to help with my framing design..

wouldn't you need some kind of decoupling applied to the wall to avoid the studs conducting sound to the structure? Regardless of whether or not there's concrete behind it, the wall structure is still going to become a flanking path to the ceiling and rest of house. Isn't it ?

I plan on having a completely independent frame (all 4 walls & ceiling) from the existing structure..not sure if thats even possible as i would suspect at least some of the walls would have to connect to my concrete walls for support

rsmooth wrote:

So isnt this the same as my original plan for my wall/ceiling build in my illustration?

i would say similar but the reality is it has to be in context to other options chosen.

rsmooth wrote:

I plan on having a completely independent frame (all 4 walls & ceiling) from the existing structure..not sure if thats even possible as i would suspect at least some of the walls would have to connect to my concrete walls for support

Maybe sway bracing would help: http://www.kineticsnoise.com/theater/pd ... ctural.pdf

Andre, i was planning on 3-4 layers of drywall for the ceiling with iso clips and rc-2 channels with green glue between 1 layer (also with backer rod and caulk at seems)

I'm good, just slow. The rc channels will do nothing in that construction. Backer rod and caulk are also not necessary. A cost savings! More info on the vent system please. This is your biggest weakness. Rod has excellent info in his book. I'm glad you like it. Andre

AVare wrote:

"Backer rod and caulk are also not necessary. A cost savings! Andre

Why wouldn't it be? What potential savings will be gained by leaving an exposed void? I have no picture to see this ceiling, but I imagine it with rock installed >after< walls are up, no? This would have the ceiling sheet-rock hanging inside that finished wall perimeter. Even if backer rod is eliminated, the caulking is going to be necessary, based solely on the way I'm having to picture what I have no picture to see. edit: if "seems" refers to end of panel joints, that is :)

Xspace; Green Glue works as an inter-spatial damping material. Not as a sound absorber in the traditional sense. Therefore the backer rod and caulking are not required.