Home studio redesign

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:04 pm

Hello all,

I have to agree with everyone here, this is a great forum, with great ideas, and great people. Thanks for some enjoyable reading!

I have a project studio that occupies a good portion of my basement. We are now in need for some storage (kids, the stuff we accumulate for them!!!), so I'm getting ready to modify some of the wall partitioning, and I need some help with it. I've had a local accoustic "guru" come in and give me some ideas as to the absorbtion, traps and such to build into the walls, but all the designs I've seen here are very innovative. So here are some questions.

1- Angled walls are in vogue in this forum. The local guru says that angled walls make standing waves harder to predict, hence harder to control. With a room the size I have, is there any point?

2- Soffit mounting the speakers, or keeping them as nearfields. I have some HR824s with a passive radiator at the rear. It appears to me that mounting these speakers into the wall will kill the low-low end, since the majority of the 40Hz and below come from the back.

3- If I stick with a "box", the closest "ideal" ratios I've calculated (my ceiling is at 87 inches) for the space I have is, in musical terms, root - flat five and ninth, or 1:1.41:2.24. The graphs come out ok, but that would mean narrowing my room from 127 inches to roughly 123. Is it worth the trouble? Or, will you suggest something angled?

4- Any tricks for designing HVAC noise attenuators (mufflers)? It may be tricky for me to have a cold air return. Will the pressure caused by the output be too high, hence impact the efficiency of the air exchange?

You'll see a drawing of the space. The stuff in black is the existing stuff that's staying. What's in blue is what I'm proposing to build. The wall partitions we will be removing are already out of the picture.

Thanks in advance for your ideas and answers.

dbluefield · Post by **dbluefield** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:04 am

Hey,

I started to play with your design, but why not post a rough of the entire dimension -- the drum booth is cut off.

1- With a room the size I have, is there any point?

Probably, especially if your building walls anyhow.

2- Soffit mounting the speakers HR824s

-- Not to put words in mouths, but I think barefoot would say its a no-no because of the rear porting. And John might say go for it anyhow. If you are like me -- the soffit bug will bite and you'll have to build them regarless to satisfy your curiosity.

3- Or, will you suggest something angled?

There are several ratios considered acceptable. Jeff Coppers book is good; Building a recording studio.

4- Any tricks for designing HVAC noise attenuators (mufflers)?

Yes. http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/

In particular here - (some will debate whether Elsea's trick works):
http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/tech_bac ... es_14.html

It may be tricky for me to have a cold air return. Will the pressure caused by the output be too high, hence impact the efficiency of the air exchange?

Why tricky? just tap into the return line. You cannot have enough supply air for a furnace is my understanding. The main thing with basement returns is to have the return far enough away from the heat exaust so as to not suck fumes into the system.

Best,

Dave[/quote]

Post by **John Sayers** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:49 am

I have some HR824s with a passive radiator at the rear. It appears to me that mounting these speakers into the wall will kill the low-low end, since the majority of the 40Hz and below come from the back.

do a search for Mackie - author - giles117

cheers
john

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:03 am

The guy at the UCSC site has some good points, but I disagree on a couple of them - the main one is on gluing subsequent layers of wallboard together. When you do that, you just make one thicker piece of wallboard. The upside of that is you lower the resonant frequency, which can be good - the downside is, you STILL only have ONE resonant frequency, which means that that particular frequency will get through the wall.

One way around this, and still getting good low end Transmission Loss, might be to glue ONE side's layers and not the other side. Two 1/2" gypsum panels glued together have a resonance of about 30 hZ when mounted on 3.5" deep studs, and this drops to about 24 hZ when mounted on 5.5" studs - increasing to two 5/8" panels lowers these freq's to 27 hZ and 21 hZ, respectively. This is ONLY if the panels are completely laminated, making one solid panel. If you then put 3 layers of different thickness on the other leaf of the wall (or even two layers) say, from the inside out 5/8, 3/8, 1/2", and those panels were on RC (NOT GLUED to each other, but screwed) with 2.5-3.0 pcf insulation in the cavities, I doubt if you could tell if someone were playing drums on the other side of the wall.

Back on topic (sorry) I think his AC silencers would help, but if there's an option it's better not to MAKE noise than it is to try to get rid of it later... Steve

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:30 pm

Thanks for your posts, all.

Dave, you mentioned you wanted to see the rest of the space. I've attached an updated drawing with the rest of the studio. Again, I'd rather not change what is in black, as it is already built. I've also included another layout idea.

The cold air return - tricky since I have no (easy) access to the cold air return vents. When I bought this place, there was already a studio here, but I really learned to hate the layout, lack of air, etc. The point I'm trying to make is that it already is a finished basement, studio and all - the more we change, the more I have to rebuild, and I can't afford to do to much.

I've looked for the Jeff Coopers' book, and unfortunately I can't find a Canadian online retailer that has it.

The good news is that we'll likely be moving in 2 or 3 years, and then we'll get to design the studio from scratch!

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:31 pm

Oops - forgot to attach the drawing...

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:53 pm

Not a bad update. Definitely soffit your 824's I soffited mine and love the accuracy and response. I am still adjusting though.

I have been mixing kinda light as I learn the bass response of my new room. I Think what I mixed this weekend is closer to accurate.

Problem is what I hear is true and convincing my mind of that. Spent to many years in an auralex room, making adjustments by mixing light on the low end.

So to sum it up. I Love my mackies in the soffits better than I ever did before.

Upper mids are 100 times smoother as well.

Bryan Giles

dbluefield · Post by **dbluefield** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:29 am

Hey Norm,

I started with the angled approach you started. John is better at the crazy angles.

But ended up thinking it might be easier to build a soffit front wall with 6degrees to the window. Add some curtains, and a nice absorptive rear wall. Not sure if you have to have door access on that east side of the control room. Anyhow, this would be less walls I think and especially since you might move....might be a way to go

Best,

Dave

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:32 am

Yeah - I was going to suggest what dave posted in his first drawing (also not sure about the door question)

cheers
john

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:19 pm

Thanks Dave.

Interesting idea, the first one. The reason why I had a door to the east is that I had two small windows, as I've added to the picture. Maybe there's a way for me to keep access to those windows by building two small window cavities in the east wall - I like some fresh air, and some true light.

The west wall needs a door to access the storage room. Maybe we could hang the middle reflectors/absorbers on hinges, and make it act like an accordeon door.

dbluefield · Post by **dbluefield** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:13 am

Thanks Dave.

Interesting idea, the first one. The reason why I had a door to the east is that I had two small windows, as I've added to the picture. Maybe there's a way for me to keep access to those windows by building two small window cavities in the east wall - I like some fresh air, and some true light.

Hey Norm.... I don't see how. Since you should want the longer distance front to back, I thought about flipping the monitors to the west wall/door in the middle, but that puts the window to the booth in an awkward place. Since you are trying to do minimal changes, I'd just forget about "natural light" and fresh air. Is the a/c return that bad in there? You can improve it I'm sure. Improve the lighting scheme as well, maybe that will make you like it better.

I enjoy playing with some designs in between diaper changes

, but folks we all can make better suggestions when every detail is drawn out with the wants/needs labled etc., instead of floating into the equation later.

The west wall needs a door to access the storage room. Maybe we could hang the middle reflectors/absorbers on hinges, and make it act like an accordeon door.

Maybe this? I think trying to bend a design to the little windows probably aint worth the effort IMO.

Dave

Post by **John Sayers** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:39 am

Norm - are the walls in the lower section of your plan your new walls?? and are the utilities (toilet etc.) where you have drawn them??

cheers
john

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:25 pm

John: are the walls in the lower section of your plan your new walls?? and are the utilities (toilet etc.) where you have drawn them??

John, the walls in black and the bathroom fixtures have been in place for about 15 years, I'd say. As mentioned earlier the idea is to enable me to have some way for me to add some storage space at the west side of the drawing, while living with the rest. I guess I'm not looking for the optimal design, rather something that will be better that what I have now. There are existing partitions in the top half of my drawing, but these are coming down in the next week or two - nothing worth salvaging.

Dave: I enjoy playing with some designs in between diaper changes, but folks we all can make better suggestions when every detail is drawn out with the wants/needs labled etc., instead of floating into the equation later.

I got your point. Sorry.

Dave: Is the a/c return that bad in there? You can improve it I'm sure.

Well today, there is no A/C return in there. That really stinks. I guess the previous owner tried to minimize the amount of noise going into the rest of the house. I certainly plan on cutting a few holes in the air system and routing it to the booth and the control room.

As for the windows, well, I was originally thinking that since they are 6 feet off the ground, I could potentially end the slots at the window height, and put some kind of glass pane on hinges. I may still do that. (I know, missing information...)

Post by **John Sayers** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:09 pm

OK - so aam I correct in assuming the double wall under the "Ducts I Beam" are not load bearing as the I Beam is taking the load?? Therefore these walls could be removed??

cheers
john

nglaude · Post by **nglaude** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:56 pm

OK - so aam I correct in assuming the double wall under the "Ducts I Beam" are not load bearing as the I Beam is taking the load?? Therefore these walls could be removed??

Yes, you are correct. There are probably some posts in there somewhere - I don't know where.