Soundproofing Recessed Lighting Fixtures in Ceilings

camistan · Post by **camistan** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:47 pm

Greetings!

I'm at it again with another question...

I'm planning on installing recessed lights in my ceiling. I really like the recessed lights I see in clouds, but seeing that my studio will be in a basement, floor to ceiling height is at a premium.

Because of the recessed light template holes that would need to be cut for each light fixture, my concern is that the template holes in the Drywall would jeapordize the soundproofing integrity of having 2 layers of 5/8" Drywall mounted on RC with insulation for my ceiling (I will have 4-5 recessed light fixtures within a 6-8 ft span).

I am planning on "beefing up" my ceiling by adding 2 sheets of 5/8" Drywall to my subfloor between my ceiling joists. Because I'm doing this, I'm not sure if having the "beefed up ceiling" would be adaquate enough to reduce sound transmission to the upstairs level (specifically the lower frequencies) due to sound coming through the template hole (via the recessed light cans). In the event that the "beefed up" ceiling is NOT adaquate enough, I thought about building a sealed-lightweight box that would house the fixtures. The box would be mounted on seperate RC strips installed specifically for the box and it's weight. Drywall and the Light fixture box finishing plate would be mounted on RC, but on different RC strips.

I have contacted the light fixture company to find out the specifics of building a box for the fixtures. The preliminary feedback was that as long as I leave an adequate amount of space for the generated heat, I'll be ok. The dimensions I gave him were adaquate. However, if it comes down to me having to BUILD such a box, I plan to send them drawings also to be sure this would be ok.

Below are some "crude drawings I did to illustrate what I'm talking about.

Hey, maybe I'm overdoing it, but I know I'll be working with those lights on for HOURS at a time...better safe than sorry I say...

Thanx!

Creature82 · Post by **Creature82** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:20 pm

just an idea.. pardon my drawing skills

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:53 pm

Main problem you're gonna run into there (in either case) is that if you leave enough room between the top of the "can trough" and the lights for cooling, you'll shorten the distance between masses for isolation of sound, and vice versa. If you can possibly squeeze it in, you'd be better putting the cans in a separate cloud as kendale did... Steve

camistan · Post by **camistan** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:13 pm

Hey thanx for the idea Creature82. I didn't think about using drywall with supports.

I guess I'm pretty much between a rock and a hard place. For my ceiling I'll be putting up two layers 5/8" drywall on RC for better sound transmission reduction, so a solid ceiling with little or no "breaking points/areas" would be GREAT. However, when I look at where my ceiling will be and how much lower the clouds will dip from the ceiling by having recessed lighting cans in them, I have a feeling they'll get near the Chlosterphobic (?) level. When I went to Lowes the other day, buying those "IC" type cans (cans that allow you to put insulation right next to them) are hitting at $40.00 ***PER*** can! (For a 5" recessed sealed can with wiring etc.) And that's NOT including the light molding hardware. If I wanted 5 lights for my board, 4 lights for my rack, 4 lights in my Vocal booth and maybe a couple in the back of the studio, that's hitting at over $500.00 by the time you throw in the molding hardware

. That's way out of my budget! The height of most of the can fixtures range from 6 & 1/2" to 7 & 1/2". In other words, for me, those cans would come 7-8" BELOW my 2 layer RC ceiling.

There's got to be a better way. Unless I can find some reasonably priced recessed lighting that can fit inside a regular size cloud that will ACTUALLY give me enough light, I'm stuck. In the end I may have to give up either allowing some low frequency sounds to escape through whatever space is between the cans/drywall/wood, or have lower ceilings. Most likely, it will be the first option...That Chlosterphobic look is not the "in" thing for me...

Post by **sharward** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:20 am

Why not go with track lighting? There have been some really neat innovations lately, with flexible track being one of them.

I really think recessed lighting will severely compromise your isolation.

Another option would be to go with wall sconces throughout, or do a combination, so as to minimize the number of fixtures directly overhead in the most likely areas where people will be standing.

--Keith

camistan · Post by **camistan** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:32 am

Man-O-Man...

You know how ya kinda close your eyes and picture a studio that has that killer sound, the great up-to-date comfortable PROFESSIONAL look that NOBODY else in your area has and it's YOURS??? Well, that's how I look at what I'm doing building my studio. I've got my sights set on those cans man...I'm gonna be optimistic that a solution will be found before I have to make a decision to loose 1 thing or the other.

Keith thanx for the suggestion...I may have to go with track lighting in the end, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. There's nothing wrong with track lighting, but to me recessed lighting gives a more "subtle" mood, and after working in a recording studio seeing the effects "mood" lighting has to a client, singer or musician, it's a serious consideration in my book. I guess it's just my preference. In the end though I'll do what I gotta do to make this all a positive.

In any case, thanx for the suggestion!!

rod gervais · Post by **rod gervais** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:19 pm

Stan,

seeing as acoustically a cloud is always desirable - BUT - you don't want to eat up the entire 8" plus for a light in the cloud - why don't you do a hybrid?.

Leave a 4" air space in the form of a boxout for your light in the ceiling itself.

Then give yourself a 2" air space and 2" of material for a cloud........ that would take care of your 8" problem - lgive you a seal at the ceiling - and would allow some free air movement around the light itself.

And you'd only loose 2" in ceiling height.

As to the inverted box - I would frame it out utilizing RC (just like the rest of the ceiling).

Sincerely,

Rod

camistan · Post by **camistan** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:37 am

Everyone, thanks for the replies!

What about the design below? Would it be better to build a box out of some lightweight type of material, or to do it like Creature82 designed his "box" above using only drywall and sleepers for drywall support? Also. if the "box" design below is recommended, what material would you suggest it be made out of? Whatever it is, it needs to be 5/8" in thickness to match up with the 5/8" drywall 1st layer. I'm trying to keep the "box" as light as possible because of the added ceiling weight. However, it also has to have "sound reduction qualities" (if possible) to match up with the rest of the RC mounted ceiling. Whichever design is the one of choice, I'll probably get the Structural Engineer to come back out again and let me know if the ceiling can handle the final overall ceiling design weight.

Once I know which way I need to go for the "box", I can figure in all the dimensions which can give me my overall floor to ceiling height.

Thanx for all your help

rod gervais · Post by **rod gervais** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:26 pm

Stan,

why not just wrap the RC and make the box out of 2 layers of drywall ?

You could actually build the entire box - attached to RC outside on the ground - and then install it in place and only have to install some RC clips at the bottom to attach to the joist.

That way you could do a real neat - well sealed - job while maintain exactly the same isolation aspects.

Rod

andy_eade · Post by **andy_eade** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:59 am

Hey Shar - if you do go with Track lighting (something I'm planning to do - for the exact reason of minimising ceilling penetrations) - how does one connect to the box? Is there a way to surface mount this or do you just recess the box and then seal it really well with putty packs or sealant?

Oh and more importantly - HAPPY NEW YEAR! =)

Andy

Post by **sharward** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:12 am

Actually, I'm now considering doing colored rope lights atop and behind absorber panels on the ceiling and walls respectively.

Kind of like what Stick has done (I have yet to see them up close and in person, but I'm sure I will soon), but more colorful.

--Keith

TomM · Post by **TomM** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:22 am

I think in order to comply with code, you will have to attach the electrical box to the joists above, not to the drywall alone.

I found this for keeping it isolated like your ceiling (not ruining your efforts with the RC)...

Scroll down to the bottom...

http://pac-intl.com/pdf/electrical_boxe ... _packs.pdf

andy_eade · Post by **andy_eade** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:28 am

Do you think code would allow you to attach the electrical box to the joist, but not attatch the fixture to the box, but instead pull the wires through a small hole in your drywall (to be then sealed with acoustical sealant); and attach to your track?

I mean you are attatching the box to the joist then =)

Post by **sharward** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:19 am

No, the plate cover must be flush with the surface of the box opening. Think about it -- you'd not be able to access the connections inside the box if you did it any other way.

They even make special box plastic and metal extender rings for situations where one is adding a layer of drywall or paneling to an existing wall and needs to extend the box a bit. Simply cutting a box-sized hole doesn't cut it -- the box itself has to cover the hole edges.

--Keith

andy_eade · Post by **andy_eade** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:51 am

So I assume this is one of those "we live with what we have to" situations, and seal up the box as best as possible with putty packs / sealant?