I'm in the design stage of my studio but I can't work out the design until I figure out if I can rip out a concrete block wall that divides my patio to my garage. If I can't I'll have a real small room just in the patio, if I can and I can figure out a cost effective way to get the wall down then I'll have a larger room.
Detailed as I can get pics from all points in the house and layouts are hear:
http://marcdobson.com/studio/
In my area:
The building permit guys (so far) on the phone have not helped when I went through the above web pages with them.
Structural Engineers do not answer there phone and there secretaries say 2 week to 2 month wait time & I get the feeling they don't want a small project like this.
Architects answer the phone but most don't do small residential or want to design the whole project blowing my do it myself budget.
I figured most everything else out or know where to look in my building code reference for most answers. But I've got to submit something with my building permit that will prove that I can just rip this wall out or rip out walls and add structural support.
Is this wall load bearing?
Any suggestions, help or good guesses greatly appreciated
Marc
Load Bearing Wall?
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guitardad72
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knightfly
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Assuming that the garage roof runs all the way to the wall between garage and family room, then the wall in question IS load bearing. However, if your ceiling height isn't already too low, you could replace the block wall with an I beam and a couple of columns, which would be better than solid block.
IF you go that route, you definetly want someone there who's DONE this more than a few times; if you get it wrong, the least that will happen is some serious structural damage to the house. The worst is a funeral(s).
Rule of thumb - any wall that's under the point in a roof where the rafters are the lowest, and perpendicular to those rafters, is load bearing. Nearly always.
General way to handle this - rent enough heavy screw jacks to place one every 4 feet along the wall, as close as you can get to the wall without being in the way of demolition - place 2x12 planks flat against the ceiling next to the wall, then 4x6 beams vertical and centered under the planks, then jacks holding all that up against the ceiling - same on the floor, so the jacks don't present a point load that will break through the floor.
Tighten up the jacks until you can't dislodge them by putting a shoulder into one, and you can start to break out the blocks. Leave the ones under the triple truss til last.
IF you like wood and have the headroom, you can use 4x beams for the header that replaces your block - rule of thumb is 1 inch per foot of span MINIMUM thickness (a 4x8 beam would span maximum 8 feet)
There are so many sizes of steel (and I'm NOT an engineer) that you'd need to get one of them to get off their ass long enough to do calculations for you if you use a steel beam.
Once the wall has been replaced, if the posts are in the way acoustically, you can wrap them with at least 2" mineral wool and cover with cloth. If the wall's short enough, you might not need any posts other than at the ends of the beam... Steve
IF you go that route, you definetly want someone there who's DONE this more than a few times; if you get it wrong, the least that will happen is some serious structural damage to the house. The worst is a funeral(s).
Rule of thumb - any wall that's under the point in a roof where the rafters are the lowest, and perpendicular to those rafters, is load bearing. Nearly always.
General way to handle this - rent enough heavy screw jacks to place one every 4 feet along the wall, as close as you can get to the wall without being in the way of demolition - place 2x12 planks flat against the ceiling next to the wall, then 4x6 beams vertical and centered under the planks, then jacks holding all that up against the ceiling - same on the floor, so the jacks don't present a point load that will break through the floor.
Tighten up the jacks until you can't dislodge them by putting a shoulder into one, and you can start to break out the blocks. Leave the ones under the triple truss til last.
IF you like wood and have the headroom, you can use 4x beams for the header that replaces your block - rule of thumb is 1 inch per foot of span MINIMUM thickness (a 4x8 beam would span maximum 8 feet)
There are so many sizes of steel (and I'm NOT an engineer) that you'd need to get one of them to get off their ass long enough to do calculations for you if you use a steel beam.
Once the wall has been replaced, if the posts are in the way acoustically, you can wrap them with at least 2" mineral wool and cover with cloth. If the wall's short enough, you might not need any posts other than at the ends of the beam... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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guitardad72
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Steve, Thanks for the quick reply. I've read a countless number of your posts on this forum. You have really helped in a couple ways: 1. made me realize I did not describe well enough the layout of truss's, walls and where those pics were taken. 2. You inspired an alternate solution. 3. You reinforced my thought of and what has already been suggested to me... tearing out this wall is not something I am going to attempt all by myself.
I got two gigs today with a lot of free time. On my laptop I'm going to sketchup the exsiting roofs, walls & layout of truss not only to post hear but to show to the proffesionals. Also I'll show my alternate solution.
Thanks
Marc
I got two gigs today with a lot of free time. On my laptop I'm going to sketchup the exsiting roofs, walls & layout of truss not only to post hear but to show to the proffesionals. Also I'll show my alternate solution.
Thanks
Marc
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derekdun101
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To clarify things....
If a wall is not supporting anything (i.e. if removing it would not cause something to falll down or not have the support it was designed to) it is not load bearing. If the wall in your pictures has nothing sitting on it other than that block of plate used to nail the truss chord into, than its not bearing. This however is not your only concern as (especially living in FLorida) you must also pay attention to shear. If you remove a section of a wall used to increase the homes shear value than next hurricane you might find your new studio laying on top of all that not so cheap studio equipment. My recommendation is to do anything you can to at least have a structural engineer pay you a visit and give his thumbs up. (u can usually find good ones through reputable architects who can be found through reputable contractors) Last resort? Scout your neighborhood for some pretty serious remodels you see goin on. Find a couple that look like theyve turned out really well. Get a hold of the contractor(s) who did them and ask them to come out and "bid" your project. They'll be able to tell from experience in your area if that wall will more than likely be able to come out without re-engineering the home.
If a wall is not supporting anything (i.e. if removing it would not cause something to falll down or not have the support it was designed to) it is not load bearing. If the wall in your pictures has nothing sitting on it other than that block of plate used to nail the truss chord into, than its not bearing. This however is not your only concern as (especially living in FLorida) you must also pay attention to shear. If you remove a section of a wall used to increase the homes shear value than next hurricane you might find your new studio laying on top of all that not so cheap studio equipment. My recommendation is to do anything you can to at least have a structural engineer pay you a visit and give his thumbs up. (u can usually find good ones through reputable architects who can be found through reputable contractors) Last resort? Scout your neighborhood for some pretty serious remodels you see goin on. Find a couple that look like theyve turned out really well. Get a hold of the contractor(s) who did them and ask them to come out and "bid" your project. They'll be able to tell from experience in your area if that wall will more than likely be able to come out without re-engineering the home.
Music. Yeah....
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knightfly
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Good call; I'd forgotten Marc's living where they grow hurricanes. That would prompt me to ALSO (in addition to checking for shear) to build that new outer wall with 2x6 instead of 2x4's as shown - or, if you need good isolation (in this case) I'd frame the outer wall in 2x6, then the inner wall on a separate, 2x4 frame - I know it eats up valuable space, but sometimes having a smaller space you can actually USE is better than a larger one you CAN'T... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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guitardad72
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OK, I’m now 90% convinced the wall I’d like to remove has some load bearing on it. Whether or not the wall could be removed without adding support beams to the same location of the wall is not something I’m qualified to answer and I think I have a better solution.
Please see attached pictures done in SketchUp. I’ve colored the:
Wall to remove in green
Trip Truss in Red
Truss is yellow
Roof sheathing is supposed to be green yellow.
Parts of the following may seem obvious to some, but for me this is a complete learning experience. I got some phone help from an ex contractor friend, who himself is confused to whether the wall is load bearing or not.
The CB wall (concrete block wall) I wish to remove wall has a 2X8 header or top plate on it for about 50”. All concrete block walls (& solid concrete walls) have timber headers on them to attach other timber. The rest of the wall is not load bearing because there is nothing on top of it. There is a picture below of the 2X8 header and is taken from the main house attic looking towards the front (north) of house. Location of camera is right about where in the diagram “MarcDobson_Truss_w_text” the dot is leading from the words “Wall to remove”. That’s right on top of the wall & you can see the concrete. The triple truss is resting on this 2x8 header. What is resting on the header? Starting from the top: the rear section of my garage roof, lies on the garage section of my main roof with sheathing and all that lies on the triple truss with a lot of weight. I suspect this header extends the 50” to give additional support to the triple truss which is really a support beam for the garage section of my main roof. I think a good argument could be had by those of us who are not engineers to whether it’s needed or not.
My solution is a new load bearing wall under the triple truss/support beam as shown in below pic “MarcDobson_new_loadwall”. I am putting a new wall right around there any ways as a new outer wall to my studio. It will be about 6 feet long. If I attach the top plates directly to the triple truss/support beam and use 2x6’s in this wall it should be a new load bearing wall that’s supporting more of the load then the current walls. Of course an architect or engineer has to sign off on this for my building permit.
Please note my diagrams are not complete, I have 2 foot overhangs all around house and I did not sketch in additional timber members of truss, and a lot of other stuff etc...
I'm writing another post straight after hitting "submit".
Please see attached pictures done in SketchUp. I’ve colored the:
Wall to remove in green
Trip Truss in Red
Truss is yellow
Roof sheathing is supposed to be green yellow.
Parts of the following may seem obvious to some, but for me this is a complete learning experience. I got some phone help from an ex contractor friend, who himself is confused to whether the wall is load bearing or not.
The CB wall (concrete block wall) I wish to remove wall has a 2X8 header or top plate on it for about 50”. All concrete block walls (& solid concrete walls) have timber headers on them to attach other timber. The rest of the wall is not load bearing because there is nothing on top of it. There is a picture below of the 2X8 header and is taken from the main house attic looking towards the front (north) of house. Location of camera is right about where in the diagram “MarcDobson_Truss_w_text” the dot is leading from the words “Wall to remove”. That’s right on top of the wall & you can see the concrete. The triple truss is resting on this 2x8 header. What is resting on the header? Starting from the top: the rear section of my garage roof, lies on the garage section of my main roof with sheathing and all that lies on the triple truss with a lot of weight. I suspect this header extends the 50” to give additional support to the triple truss which is really a support beam for the garage section of my main roof. I think a good argument could be had by those of us who are not engineers to whether it’s needed or not.
My solution is a new load bearing wall under the triple truss/support beam as shown in below pic “MarcDobson_new_loadwall”. I am putting a new wall right around there any ways as a new outer wall to my studio. It will be about 6 feet long. If I attach the top plates directly to the triple truss/support beam and use 2x6’s in this wall it should be a new load bearing wall that’s supporting more of the load then the current walls. Of course an architect or engineer has to sign off on this for my building permit.
Please note my diagrams are not complete, I have 2 foot overhangs all around house and I did not sketch in additional timber members of truss, and a lot of other stuff etc...
I'm writing another post straight after hitting "submit".
Last edited by guitardad72 on Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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guitardad72
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Only 2 pics per post, and here are 2 more:
In the 1st picture,
the wood on the right is a truss,
on the left is a 2x4 used to attach ceiling to, it's not part off truss
the peice laying flat is the 2x8 CB header
right in the middle in the back is the triple truss/support beam
In the 1st picture,
the wood on the right is a truss,
on the left is a 2x4 used to attach ceiling to, it's not part off truss
the peice laying flat is the 2x8 CB header
right in the middle in the back is the triple truss/support beam
Last edited by guitardad72 on Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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guitardad72
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In Florida 90% of homes are concrete block or solid concrete walls on 1st level. Most are 1 story. Most that are 2 stories, the 2nd level is 2x4 frame. The main reason for concrete construction in Florida is because of termites, not hurricanes. 99.99% of homes do not have a basement. There are a lot of U-store it places around. Most attics are real low pitch, not enough space and too hot to use for storage.
I had thought about 2X6 staggered stud exterior (& interior) frames but am currently thinking double 2X4 walls. I know I would have a stronger wall with a full 2x6 frame exterior wall and can space the studs on 24 instead of 16, but I’ll loose the space inside the room. I got to think that one through more. I’ve optioned out new concrete block exterior walls because of cost ($2,000-$3,000) and the fact that I can’t do it myself. It requires busting holes in existing walls to tie in rebar and lots of concrete. As far as termites go I just have to spray for termites and bugs at the recommended times since I'm staying with wood exterior.
I still have many obstacles to overcome. I’m not sure if my patio and garage slab will hold the weight of a new load bearing wall plus the weight of the studio. I am planning on a floated sub floor, double walls all around with inner walls on sub floor and a dropped ceiling. My guess is I’m alright. I still have a lot of planning to do.
derekdun101…Thanks for you concern about shear. I am very concerned about it. My building code requires I build the exterior walls to with stand 100 mile per hour winds. The Florida Building code online has specifications on how to build 2X4 exterior walls. I can’t recall it all but it works off of walls that are weight driven to resist horizontal forces. It requires specific stud spacing, sheathing thickness, and nail types, how close to space nails, etc… I won’t get my building permit unless I plan on building a good exterior wall; they want to see a diagram of all walls for the permit.
And yes for the past couple of years they’ve been growing hurricanes hear in Florida. I’ve evacuated my house twice over the past two years. I’ve had 5 hurricane eyes pass within 200 miles of my house, closest was 50 miles all I’ve had is some small trees fall down. My neighbor on the side of my house where the studio will be is a 2 story house which makes me feel a little protected. I live close to the Kennedy Space which was built where it is, partially because historically hurricanes don’t hit there, but who knows. My fear is part of the roof popping off or a window breaking during a huricane. I do have hurricane plywood for my windows but… well I got 12 real nice $40 a sheet, ¾ plywood I had no choice in buying cause it was all that was left at the hardware stores (I waited till right before a storm to buy it) I got it to protect my windows with and I’m planning on using some if not all of it for my studio. Just got to by cheaper plywood or building proper hurcance shutters before the next season.
The damage from hurricanes causes another effect, re-construction. I have a handyman friend who went from making $800 a week to $3,000 a week after the hurricane season of 2004. He won’t even install a ceiling fan for an old lady for less then $500, or so he says. There is still damage from 2004 being fixed around here. All that work plus the fact that about 1 million people a year move to Florida makes the construction industry down hear busy. I have a lot of friends who resort to DIY projects because they simply can’t find anyone willing to do small jobs. This is part of my problem trying to find an architect or engineer, they got so much work half them can’t be bothered with small jobs. I am presuming a bit with that statement. I’ll find out more tomorrow when I get back on the phone searching for some one to help me with my wall removal issue.
Thanks guys,
Marc
I had thought about 2X6 staggered stud exterior (& interior) frames but am currently thinking double 2X4 walls. I know I would have a stronger wall with a full 2x6 frame exterior wall and can space the studs on 24 instead of 16, but I’ll loose the space inside the room. I got to think that one through more. I’ve optioned out new concrete block exterior walls because of cost ($2,000-$3,000) and the fact that I can’t do it myself. It requires busting holes in existing walls to tie in rebar and lots of concrete. As far as termites go I just have to spray for termites and bugs at the recommended times since I'm staying with wood exterior.
I still have many obstacles to overcome. I’m not sure if my patio and garage slab will hold the weight of a new load bearing wall plus the weight of the studio. I am planning on a floated sub floor, double walls all around with inner walls on sub floor and a dropped ceiling. My guess is I’m alright. I still have a lot of planning to do.
derekdun101…Thanks for you concern about shear. I am very concerned about it. My building code requires I build the exterior walls to with stand 100 mile per hour winds. The Florida Building code online has specifications on how to build 2X4 exterior walls. I can’t recall it all but it works off of walls that are weight driven to resist horizontal forces. It requires specific stud spacing, sheathing thickness, and nail types, how close to space nails, etc… I won’t get my building permit unless I plan on building a good exterior wall; they want to see a diagram of all walls for the permit.
And yes for the past couple of years they’ve been growing hurricanes hear in Florida. I’ve evacuated my house twice over the past two years. I’ve had 5 hurricane eyes pass within 200 miles of my house, closest was 50 miles all I’ve had is some small trees fall down. My neighbor on the side of my house where the studio will be is a 2 story house which makes me feel a little protected. I live close to the Kennedy Space which was built where it is, partially because historically hurricanes don’t hit there, but who knows. My fear is part of the roof popping off or a window breaking during a huricane. I do have hurricane plywood for my windows but… well I got 12 real nice $40 a sheet, ¾ plywood I had no choice in buying cause it was all that was left at the hardware stores (I waited till right before a storm to buy it) I got it to protect my windows with and I’m planning on using some if not all of it for my studio. Just got to by cheaper plywood or building proper hurcance shutters before the next season.
The damage from hurricanes causes another effect, re-construction. I have a handyman friend who went from making $800 a week to $3,000 a week after the hurricane season of 2004. He won’t even install a ceiling fan for an old lady for less then $500, or so he says. There is still damage from 2004 being fixed around here. All that work plus the fact that about 1 million people a year move to Florida makes the construction industry down hear busy. I have a lot of friends who resort to DIY projects because they simply can’t find anyone willing to do small jobs. This is part of my problem trying to find an architect or engineer, they got so much work half them can’t be bothered with small jobs. I am presuming a bit with that statement. I’ll find out more tomorrow when I get back on the phone searching for some one to help me with my wall removal issue.
Thanks guys,
Marc
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guitardad72
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guitardad72
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I had a very productive day. I took a trip to the building code office with my laptop, met with a plan examiner, and showed him my plans with SketchUp and the actual pictures of the house and structure in question. End result is I need a Structural engineer. I do not need an architect as he stated I am capable of drawing my own designs and an architect is not capable of determining the load bearing of wall I wish to remove.
The triple truss/ support beam I refer to in previous posts is really called a:
Girder Truss: A Truss designed and engineered to carry heavy loads transmitted from other structural members bearing upon it. Often a multiple ply Truss.
My novice alternate solution in previous post will most likely, not work. A truss is designed to bear weight at specific points, in my case it’s on the ends of the girder truss which sit on the 2x8 timber headers of my concrete walls. Placing a load bearing wall under the truss as in above picture will completely change everything about the truss engineering and most likely make the truss weaker, which of course is not a great idea, unless somehow a structural engineer agrees with my idea, and I doubt that.
I just found a great website all about trusses. Hear is the glossary page which I stole Girder Truss definition from:
http://www.truss-frame.com/truss-glossary.html
Other progress:
I approached a contractor who’s been doing work on the house next door to me. He helped me remove an old furnace oil tank buried on the other side of my north patio wall. Shame it was with the rising cost of fuel I had to dispose of almost a full tank of furnace oil because I could not find anyone who wanted it. We only heat our homes for maybe a month per year in this part of Florida.
From the contractor I got the name of an architect (which now may be useless to me) and the name of a concrete guy. The concrete guy is coming over tomorrow to give me an estimate on cutting out the wall and how much it would cost to have my exterior walls made out of concrete block.
While I search for a structural engineer, my next tasks are to compare double 2x4 walls with floated floor and dropped ceiling verses hollow concrete block (8”W x 8”L x 12”H) with furring strips, RC channel and drywall as far as the new exterior (and existing) walls go. Comparison will be for cost, sound isolation and square footage left. Once I get a handle on the comparison I’ll start another post about it. My existing north and west patio walls are hollow concrete block (presumed 8”H x 8” W x 12”L, house was built in 1964 in florida) with 1” of stucco and paint on each side. Walls are 10” deep. Without drilling a hole into each cavity inside the blocks, I have no way to fill the cavities with a material such as sand or concrete. I don’t think I want to add that amount of weight to existing walls or new ones, unless an engineer can tell me my slab can handle the new weight. So I will have one more question for the engineer. Plus my north patio wall is load bearing.
Wish me luck on getting an engineer to look at my plans and/or take a trip to my house in a timely manner.
Marc
The triple truss/ support beam I refer to in previous posts is really called a:
Girder Truss: A Truss designed and engineered to carry heavy loads transmitted from other structural members bearing upon it. Often a multiple ply Truss.
My novice alternate solution in previous post will most likely, not work. A truss is designed to bear weight at specific points, in my case it’s on the ends of the girder truss which sit on the 2x8 timber headers of my concrete walls. Placing a load bearing wall under the truss as in above picture will completely change everything about the truss engineering and most likely make the truss weaker, which of course is not a great idea, unless somehow a structural engineer agrees with my idea, and I doubt that.
I just found a great website all about trusses. Hear is the glossary page which I stole Girder Truss definition from:
http://www.truss-frame.com/truss-glossary.html
Other progress:
I approached a contractor who’s been doing work on the house next door to me. He helped me remove an old furnace oil tank buried on the other side of my north patio wall. Shame it was with the rising cost of fuel I had to dispose of almost a full tank of furnace oil because I could not find anyone who wanted it. We only heat our homes for maybe a month per year in this part of Florida.
From the contractor I got the name of an architect (which now may be useless to me) and the name of a concrete guy. The concrete guy is coming over tomorrow to give me an estimate on cutting out the wall and how much it would cost to have my exterior walls made out of concrete block.
While I search for a structural engineer, my next tasks are to compare double 2x4 walls with floated floor and dropped ceiling verses hollow concrete block (8”W x 8”L x 12”H) with furring strips, RC channel and drywall as far as the new exterior (and existing) walls go. Comparison will be for cost, sound isolation and square footage left. Once I get a handle on the comparison I’ll start another post about it. My existing north and west patio walls are hollow concrete block (presumed 8”H x 8” W x 12”L, house was built in 1964 in florida) with 1” of stucco and paint on each side. Walls are 10” deep. Without drilling a hole into each cavity inside the blocks, I have no way to fill the cavities with a material such as sand or concrete. I don’t think I want to add that amount of weight to existing walls or new ones, unless an engineer can tell me my slab can handle the new weight. So I will have one more question for the engineer. Plus my north patio wall is load bearing.
Wish me luck on getting an engineer to look at my plans and/or take a trip to my house in a timely manner.
Marc
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guitardad72
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The concrete guy came and went disapointed cause I wouldn't sign a contract.
His price for cutting out my wall with a team of 3 guys, in a 3 day period is about $1,800 USD. Not sure if that included refinishing flat the sides of walls and slab with concrete. He wants to hear what the engineer says.
His guess at removing wall was to leave 9" of the wall and cut where the north part of existing door is. He also guessed the 2X8 timber header/plate above the door, is more for the concrete header of the door then for the girder truss. The girder truss sites 5" away from where I want realy want to cut.
Cost of putting up 2 concrete block walls for exterior: $3,000 USD. That's 3 guys, 5 days, pouring footings under, tieing in to existing concrete floors and walls with rebar, etc... That price is just labor, I still have to buy all the material. 1 block = $ 1.50, rebar $?, 6 or more yards of concrete delivered in a cement truck, plus...
I did learn I could use 6" wide block instead of 8". But at the increased cost of concrete block wall and the decrease in sound isolation options I'm not going to bother doing a full out comparison. I hoped this guy would be cheaper then a guess qoute I got on the phone a couple weeks ago, but it's the same number.
I am going to build 2x4 walls. If built correctly they will be stronger then concrete as far as hurricanes go but I'll have the constant concern about protecting the wood from termites and other bugs.
I did get a hold of an arcitech/structural engineer who wants a minimum of $1,000 to design the whole room. His ears must have been burning, he called while I am typing this... He is coming to my house in one hour, but the guy won't go near a computer ????? I can't wait to hear what he has to say.
$1,800 for ripping out the wall.....
My budget started at $3,000 for the entire project, I'm thinking $5,000 right now... I need to be cost effective... but need the room to be correct in the end. If I reach $10,000 my wife will shoot me and the construction time frame will increase so that I don't put this whole thing on credit.
Presume another post will be written by the end of today.
Oh yeah and if I lost you on the existing door visit this link for existing layout:
http://www.marcdobson.com/studio/attic_pics.htm
Marc
His price for cutting out my wall with a team of 3 guys, in a 3 day period is about $1,800 USD. Not sure if that included refinishing flat the sides of walls and slab with concrete. He wants to hear what the engineer says.
His guess at removing wall was to leave 9" of the wall and cut where the north part of existing door is. He also guessed the 2X8 timber header/plate above the door, is more for the concrete header of the door then for the girder truss. The girder truss sites 5" away from where I want realy want to cut.
Cost of putting up 2 concrete block walls for exterior: $3,000 USD. That's 3 guys, 5 days, pouring footings under, tieing in to existing concrete floors and walls with rebar, etc... That price is just labor, I still have to buy all the material. 1 block = $ 1.50, rebar $?, 6 or more yards of concrete delivered in a cement truck, plus...
I did learn I could use 6" wide block instead of 8". But at the increased cost of concrete block wall and the decrease in sound isolation options I'm not going to bother doing a full out comparison. I hoped this guy would be cheaper then a guess qoute I got on the phone a couple weeks ago, but it's the same number.
I am going to build 2x4 walls. If built correctly they will be stronger then concrete as far as hurricanes go but I'll have the constant concern about protecting the wood from termites and other bugs.
I did get a hold of an arcitech/structural engineer who wants a minimum of $1,000 to design the whole room. His ears must have been burning, he called while I am typing this... He is coming to my house in one hour, but the guy won't go near a computer ????? I can't wait to hear what he has to say.
$1,800 for ripping out the wall.....
My budget started at $3,000 for the entire project, I'm thinking $5,000 right now... I need to be cost effective... but need the room to be correct in the end. If I reach $10,000 my wife will shoot me and the construction time frame will increase so that I don't put this whole thing on credit.Presume another post will be written by the end of today.
Oh yeah and if I lost you on the existing door visit this link for existing layout:
http://www.marcdobson.com/studio/attic_pics.htm
Marc
Last edited by guitardad72 on Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.
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guitardad72
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And....
The wall shall fall!!!!!
The wall is not load bearing. My basic understanding is the girder truss rests on the joining part of "T" shape Concrete Walls. All around the joining part of the "T" the collum shape cavities of the hollow blocks are filled with concrete. Infact there is a header of solid concrete within the walls from the top 2' down all the way around. Since I will leave "L" shaped walls there is plenty of support left.
Architect/Engineer was a great help. The only jobs he does are small ones unlike everyone else I talked to.
derekdun101 Thanks your advice paid off by scouting a local contractor to get a good local architect.
He was cheaper then his quote costing me $800. I gave him a deposit. I will I get a set stamped plans that will get me my building permit.
It may seem I jumped on this, if you read through from above... I did. I went through my entire yellow pages without luck of finding anyone giving an indication they would take this job on. I stuggled with spending the money while he took final measurements and then I decided it was well worth it because it will get me well on my way to getting the project done.
None of the inner structure will be in the design submitted for building permit. Not my favorite option but he had a previous bad experience designing a sound room, which did not get a permit. They had to re-submit plans without inner room and acoustics becuase the plans examiners just could not understand, so they did not approve.
He suggested and explained how to remove the concrete wall myself. He himself previously took out a concrete wall. Today,I'm committing myself to that job (will I change my mind?) and before I do it I'm going to complete research safety and technique.
The only thing left I have for the architect is to determine placement of my new south wall and whether or not to leave the last 9" of concrete wall to remove. I will start another thread in the Design Forum for that. South wall placement will make the room "L" shaped or rectangle. The 9" of wall will stick out of my north wall, 10" wide.
Once I start the thread I'll edit this one with a link to it.
And hear it is:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5580
Marc
The wall shall fall!!!!!
The wall is not load bearing. My basic understanding is the girder truss rests on the joining part of "T" shape Concrete Walls. All around the joining part of the "T" the collum shape cavities of the hollow blocks are filled with concrete. Infact there is a header of solid concrete within the walls from the top 2' down all the way around. Since I will leave "L" shaped walls there is plenty of support left.
Architect/Engineer was a great help. The only jobs he does are small ones unlike everyone else I talked to.
derekdun101 Thanks your advice paid off by scouting a local contractor to get a good local architect.
He was cheaper then his quote costing me $800. I gave him a deposit. I will I get a set stamped plans that will get me my building permit.
It may seem I jumped on this, if you read through from above... I did. I went through my entire yellow pages without luck of finding anyone giving an indication they would take this job on. I stuggled with spending the money while he took final measurements and then I decided it was well worth it because it will get me well on my way to getting the project done.None of the inner structure will be in the design submitted for building permit. Not my favorite option but he had a previous bad experience designing a sound room, which did not get a permit. They had to re-submit plans without inner room and acoustics becuase the plans examiners just could not understand, so they did not approve.
He suggested and explained how to remove the concrete wall myself. He himself previously took out a concrete wall. Today,I'm committing myself to that job (will I change my mind?) and before I do it I'm going to complete research safety and technique.
The only thing left I have for the architect is to determine placement of my new south wall and whether or not to leave the last 9" of concrete wall to remove. I will start another thread in the Design Forum for that. South wall placement will make the room "L" shaped or rectangle. The 9" of wall will stick out of my north wall, 10" wide.
Once I start the thread I'll edit this one with a link to it.
And hear it is:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5580
Marc
As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.