Need speaker type/brand suggestions

[camistan]

I plan to have a finished room approximately 18ft long, 12 feet wide (at it's widest points...walls are splayed) and 7 ft 9in in height. I will also have helmholtz resonators on the splayed walls, corner bass traps in the rear, a bass trap with hangers on the center rear wall to span about 6-7ft. and a cloud from the speakers to the mix position. I included an edited design I previously made below.

I play my music "fairly" loud. I don't want a system that will distort when I go from 85 db to maybe 100db. I want to be able to hear crisp cymbals but yet not have a "twangy" midrange. The music played will be more in the modern jazz-hip hop-R & B venue.

I would consider a system with a sub, provided the soffit-mounted speakers could handle that volume range and not distort.

I've been a "JBL" man most of my life. I am considering the JBL LSR 6332 speakers (12" woofer). Seems like they have a nice set up to "tune" them to your room. I looked at some of the Genelic stuff but that's hitting up there in price. My price range could NOT exceed $2000.00...er, that's for "2" speakers too!

Another thing is the baffle size. I believe you're suppose to have the baffle size about 4 times the width of your woofer. That would make the baffle REALLY wide. (see this post)

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1955

My preliminary design may have 36-40" for baffle width (My problem will be the width needed to the left and right of the woofer...the width I'd need above and below the woofer would be ok). With the acoustic treatments mentioned above for my particular control room (see above)what could possibly be done for the best speaker performance with a baffle width this size? Or, according to the post, is it possible the acoustics I have planned would be sufficient? (Right now I can't complete my final design until I'm sure about this issue)

I found this post but it had no response...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1337

According to JBL, the listening distance for the speakers I'm looking at is 6-10ft.

Anyway, I'm open to different speaker brands etc. I just need suggestions on what's good for my particular needs.

One other question I had was if I did have a sub, because it's a mobile unit would the wall and ceiling treatments I described above still have the same effect on the low frequency waves due to the fact that the sub sits on the floor? What's the theory behind subs on the floor and how they project their low frequency sound waves?

[knightfly]

Found what I was referring to -

http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_Sizing.pdf

If you look on page 3, about halfway down, just below the simple formula - this is basically a mini-discussion on soffits for all intents and purposes - if you re-arrange that formula and divide 4560 by the lower Fo of your speakers, it will give you a TOTAL baffle width in inches - I did a few for reference

30 hZ = 152"
35 hZ = 130"
40 hZ = 114"
45 hZ = 101"
50 hZ = 91"
55 hZ = 83"
60 hZ = 76"

So you can see that if you had some 15" bass drivers and wanted proper soffits they'd need to be about 5-6 feet each side of the speaker for true 2 pi operation. Kinda makes ya wonder if offcenter in the middle of the ceiling would be a good spot for the sub, huh??!? At least the baffle would be big enough... Steve

As Thomas pointed out in the other linked thread, some heavier absorption near the angles between walls and baffles would help lessen the effects of too-narrow baffles...

[knightfly]

Stan, is that drawing to scale? seems like if you put speakers in those angled sections your mix position's gonna be really far back - also, are you planning on surround mixes at all? If so, you'll likely be using more absorption and that would make narrower baffles a bit less of a concern... Steve

[camistan]

Hey Steve
Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes, it is er, "somewhat" to scale...

To make a long story short I'm taking in the info about the baffle size and adding extra insulation to come up with a better front room design...(If that's possible). I believe putting in extra insulation etc. will be ok BUT...

The next problem I ran into was trying to create an equal triangle between my speakers and the listening position. The room simply isn't that wide. Right now, it seems the widest I could get my speakers (from center woofer to center woofer) MAY be 6-7ft. Due to my door location for the Vocal booth, I have to leave room to enter/exit it which will restrict the width the front wall/soffits could be. Also, I wanted to still mount my Near Fields on stands behind my console. The smaller the distance between my speakers means the closer the console will be to the soffit speakers (If I want to have an "equal" triangle). If that's the case, then my Near Fields will almost be right in front of the soffited speakers.

It's kinda like this...I've got the data to put into the computer, now I have to take it and find a medium between what would give me the BEST performance of my room/equipment, and what design/setup I would personally like to see in my studio. There are some things I'd LIKE to do, but for various restrictions, I CAN'T do.

I plan on putting an exact scale pic up in a thread soon, but I've got some "loose ends" to tie up before hand. (Loose ends meaning having my final plan for design and construction done for critiquing by the moderators and people on this site)

I do have a question though...
What is the theory behind the equal "triangle"? I would assume it's so there's equal distance between all locations to cause the sound to arrive at an equal time to the listener. Is that it or exactly what's behind doing it this way? What are the ramifications for being slightly OFF from having an "equal" triangle? And, oh yes...at present I don't plan on having a surround system.

Thanx!

[knightfly]

It's more critical to have an Isosceles triangle than an equilateral one; if not, it's easlily possible that higher frequencies present in both channels will cancel out at the listening position. It's also a reality that due to psychoacoustic phenomena a difference in distance between your ears and the two speakers can cause one channel to seem LOUDER than the other, when in reality it's just closer.

Our ears give us positional information based partly on which sound happens first, and the brain is VERY critical on this - a difference of a fraction of an inch can cause us to think a sound comes from only one speaker, at least at higher frequencies.

The actual ANGLE the speakers are at relative to the mix position isn't AS critical, although it will (if exaggerated TOO much) cause more of a "hole" in the phantom center channel that happens with good stereo imaging. It's possible to widen the angle out to as much as 90 degrees, although it makes the sweet spot smaller and may cause some loss of center information.

If you want both mains and nearfields to be usable at the same time, you can raise the mains a bit, aim them downward slightly to compensate for off-axis, and place your nearfields at a slightly WIDER isosceles triangle to get them out of the direct path of the mains. You still will probably get some diffraction effects from the corners of the nearfields, although less if their cabinets are radiused instead of sharp-edged... Steve

[ismails]

If any person is thinking about purchasing any of this guys speakers is raising prices.

[Soundman2020]

If any person is thinking about purchasing any of this guys speakers is raising prices.

What does that even mean, and why are you replying to a thread that has been dead for nearly eight years? Maybe you could re-phrase that comment, to make it more intelligible. Also, please check the rules for posting on the forum. You are violating them.

- Stuart -

[maria14]

You can see that if you had some 15" bass drivers and wanted proper soffits they'd need to be about 5-6 feet each side of the speaker for true 2 pi operation. Kinda makes ya wonder if offcenter in the middle of the ceiling would be a good spot for the sub, huh??!? At least the baffle would be big enough... Steve I plan on putting an exact scale pic up in a thread soon, but I've got some "loose ends" to tie up before hand. (Loose ends meaning having my final plan for design and construction done for critiquing by the moderators and people on this site)


------------------


[PLAGIARISM SPAMMER NOW BANNED AND BLOCKED - MODERATOR]