Drum riser: poor man's floating floor? *DONE! WITH PHOTO!*

[AjD]

What's the thinking here regarding floating a drumset and/or a guitar amp (as a cheaper way to get some low-end isolation)?

I'm curious if anyone has tried the isolated riser approach with success, isolationwise. My studio temporarily resides in the walk-out lower level of my house. When a rock band is playing (loud drums, bass amps, etc.), you can still here the low-end freqs up on the second floor - where the kid's bedrooms are.

I'm thinking about building a drum riser with carpet-covered 6' x 6' MDF (5/8" thick) atop some of those Auralex PlatFoams. I'd also likely build a couple amp platforms as well (like those Auralex GRAMMAs). The goal would be to decouple the drums and amps from the room, and reduce the low freq transmission thru the house structure (a wood frame house with wood siding). I realize I'll still have flanking noise to deal with, but that doesn't seem to be as much as a prob. (I'm thinking this might also tighten up the mud a bit in my 23' x 22' tracking room.)

For those that don't know, PlatFoams are dense foam 'sleepers' sold by the ubiquitous Auralex. Quoting Auralex's site, "Sound transmitting to other parts of your home or studio can be significantly reduced, resulting in greater sound isolation [when using Platfoams]." There are a bunch of folks reporting decent results over on the vdrums discussion group as well (albeit with much less ambient volume).

More here in this PDF:

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_platfoam/pf.pdf

Anyway, those PlatFoams are expensive (about $20.00 per 4' sleeper). Isn't there some way to float a drum riser for cheaper? (Perhaps using several 703 panels laid on the floor, and/or stacked? Or neoprene nubs?)

Has anyone tried this? What's the general thinking on doing 'poor man's isolation' via 'mini floating floor' risers?

Best,
Aj
Michigan

[Deluks]

I was thinking along the same lines, this would be extremely useful for all these people who desire a floating floor, but don't have the expertise (or piles of cash) to do it.

There must be a one-size-fits-all drum riser solution, I know there are many factors to take into account, roomsize/drumkit size/weight of drummer etc. but one of the technical bods on here could probably design a solution that can be built by the average diy-er, that will work within certain parameters.

Anyone up to the challenge?

[AjD]

Bump (this question is starting to drift off the front page .)

[knightfly]

IF you're getting second floor bass, it's more likely that it's MOSTLY flanking - either way, a riser should help.

For cheaper, try floating two layers of 3/4" MDF on 4" Rockwool - cheaper than 703, same weight (2.5 to 3 PCF) - just put 2x4 foot pieces of rockwool down on the floor (if it's only 2", then criss-cross the second layer so joints do NOT line up) do a 6x6 or 6x8, even 8x8 - 6x8 is a good size for most kits.

rip one sheet lengthwise into two 2x8 pieces, place a full and a half sheet on the rockwool, spread liquid nailz beads around the perimeter and every two feet, then lay a full sheet over the half sheet (and half of the full sheet, and the other half sheet over the remainder. This keeps joints separate for more strength.

Use 1-1/2" deck screws and fasten together while adhesive is fresh.

Warning - this will likely create a resonance that's in the audible frequency range; if you're lucky, it will NOT be the same frequency as one of your tom toms, but NO GUARANTEE.

Anything heavier than this (or if your house is flimsy and you're NOT on the ground floor) and you should ASK FIRST. Death is reportedly quite FINAL... Steve

[AjD]

Belated thanks for the great, well-thought out reply Steve...

It's interesting, because I asked Auralex about decking material thickness (to use with their PlatFoam sleepers underneath). They suggested 1/2" or 5/8" thick MDF or plywood - but no thicker, as that would be too stiff.

Seemed a bit counterintuitive to me - perhaps the durometer of the PlatFoam is quite different then the rock wool you suggest. Also, I have a cheaper source for 703 than rock wool (upper Midwest USA). Would that work just as well? And finally, are deck screws necessary, assuming the - wouldn't they help to short circuit the isolation a bit?

As always, thanks much. You and John offer a great resource here.

Best,
Aj

[AjD]

Ok, well it's taken awhile, but I'm finally ready to build the Steve/Knightfly drum riser, as proposed earlier in this thread.

One last question for you Steve about your suggested design, just to make sure I'm understanding it... Is this the basic composition of the riser (from top to floor):

*DRUMSET ON TOP*
FIRST 3/4" MDF LAYER
SECOND 3/4" MDF LAYER (DECK SCREWED TO FIRST MDF LAYER ABOVE)
LIQUID NAILS
4" OF ROCKWOOL (OR 703)
*FLOOR*

Thanks much....

Adam

[AjD]

Just a bump to keep this from slipping off the page 1.

Actually, I'm just looking for a quick 'Yes, you got it right, go ahead and build it!' from anyone familiar with Steve's riser plan above.

Best,
Adam

[Dieter@be]

It seems a good plan to me
I am going to test the isolation improvement made by using a (for the moment very simple, cheap, temporarily) drum riser.
I have all the materials (including dB meter) ready
if all goes well, I can do the experiment tomorrow
more info here

[knightfly]

Yes, that's what I meant; I've not done exactly that though, so for a "test" I would just lay your two sheets of MDF on top of the rockwool, then lay two more sheets (at right angles) on top of that, then put the drums on top and play. No nails, no glue, no screws at this time - that way, if it makes no difference you can use the materials elsewhere (or not at all) -

Granted, using no fasteners will likely give you some "buzzes" within the room; don't worry about that, the point of the test is to see if flanking is your main problem or not, so the only listening should be in the "receiving" rooms (where you DON'T want the sound)

Then, if those rooms are noticeably quieter, you can re-do the riser for keeps using the methods you mentioned... Steve

[AjD]

Ok guys, thanks for the confirmation... I'm going to take Steve's advice and just "pile it all up" and see. For the bottom layer, I've got some extra 2" 705 panels, so I'll just use those. First I'll start with one layer of 2" - then see how well it decouples the kit from the room.

If that doesn't do the trick, I'll add another 2". We'll see.

And... if this works well on drums, I'm planning on going whole hog with decoupling - I'll be making a few little floating platforms for the amps as well!

I'm really gung ho about setting up the best "one room" recording environment I can (for the musicians). I want all the players in the band to be together when they record -to feel like they are merely having another rehearsal, yet have the recording tracks as separated as possible. (With some bleed of course.)

Best,
Adam

[Dieter@be]

Just to let you know "the experiment" is finished, with good/great results

(i posted the link above)

[Flaat]

You posts were great, Dieter@be.

Looking forward to hear of AjD's experiences aswell.

I may be getting v-drums in a couple of months, but still want to damper the sound downwards, as to not disturb anyone.

[wiznant]

I've been researching the forums and I have decided to purchase 96 square feet of 2" 703 rigid fiberglass to use as the base of my drum riser.

http://www.insulationworld.com/prod...p?idproduct=394

or I could get the same amount of mineral wool.

http://www.insulationworld.com/prod...p?idproduct=631

The rigid fiberglass will be on the floor with a couple sheets of plywood on top, then drums go on top of that. Does this seem like a good idea?

The mineral wool is cheaper so I wanna get that, but I am not familier with it. If the mineral wool is just as good as the 703 please let me know because I will purchase that.

Thanks,
Allan Franklin

[Dieter@be]

here you will find some nice information about 703 etc (iirc it says mineral wool = rock wool= rigid fiberglass, but it sure doesnt look the same on your pictures)

besides that, i think your links should be http://www.insulationworld.com/prodView ... roduct=394
and
http://www.insulationworld.com/prodView ... roduct=631

[knightfly]

Allan, the mineral wool is just as good for acoustics; it's cheaper to make, that's why it costs less. Other than price, it's pretty much a direct replacement for rigid fiberglass, meaning same weight same result... Steve