Is it even possible?

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:38 am

Is it worth considering building a control room and/or mastering suite in a room with a 7 foot floor to ceiling height?....the other length by width dimensions are 16.5' X 12.0'.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:22 am

Sure why not.

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:16 am

.....well...I'm not sure why not....I guess most of the rooms I've seen have higher ceilings and figured there must be a reason for it...I believe I need to treat my current room with some bass traps but really wondered if it's worth the effort and expense because of the low ceiling height...I did read somewhere that a higher ceiling is preferred for tracking room(s) and I just assumed that applied to control rooms and/or mastering suites also. The same article suggested creating a "false" ceiling using acoustic ceiling tiles to achieve the effect of a higher ceiling (the theory being that less high frequency content would be reflected off the ceiling)....I did build such a structure and it did make a difference while recording live drums. Basically I'm just trying to evaluate whether constructing a studio in a basement has any real hope of acheiving professional quality recordings.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:00 am

Well there is the kicker.

A real pro can make magic in a dungeon.

So the choice is yours. Key word CHOICE.

I converted a room with an 8' ceiling to be my control room and then for the live room ended up dropping the ceiling to a height of 87" and i get a GREAT sound out of both.

Hope that helps you out

BTW 87" = 7'3"

Ethan Winer · Post by **Ethan Winer** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:06 am

Raw,

> I believe I need to treat my current room with some bass traps but really wondered if it's worth the effort and expense because of the low ceiling height <

In fact, the less optimum the room dimensions, the more you'll benefit from bass traps. Even the best designed room in the world needs some amount of bass trapping, and lesser rooms need it even more.

> I'm just trying to evaluate whether constructing a studio in a basement has any real hope of acheiving professional quality recordings. <

If you get EQ magazine, the current issue (September) shows the design for a complete studio meant to go in a basement or garage. This design assumes a ceiling eight feet high, but it can be scaled to give excellent results with lower ceilings.

--Ethan

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:29 am

thanks Giles & Ethan for your replies...

Giles:...if I understand your comment correctly then a decent acoustical environment is not necessary for a professional sound engineer to produce professional results.....then why do people go through the expense and effort to build world class studios for musicians and sound engineers to work in?

Ethan:...thanks for the tip on the Sep. issue of EQ...I will check that out. I've visited your site in the past and found it quite helpful. That's about the time I started seriously thinking about building the bass traps. ...and then I noticed John Sayers page about combined diffusor/bass traps....that really sounded like a good way to go.....anyway, the more I've read about designing and building a "good room" it became apparent that to convert my basement environs into such a room using the techniques found on your website and here would take quite a lot of $$ and would eat up what preciuos little space I have, so naturally I started to wonder if it would be worth the expense (see Giles reply above...

)....my main concern at the moment is the ability to hear and judge frequencies below say 500hz...currently I burn mixes and then play back on different sources to check the low end.....a time consuming process (although I've "learned" my monitors better as a result...).....seems more efficient to me to get it "right" the first time

...I do have clients that have been happy enough with my work to return so my present situation is not "unworkable"....just trying to get a handle on where and how to improve...

Ethan Winer · Post by **Ethan Winer** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:53 am

RT,

> currently I burn mixes and then play back on different sources to check the low end <

Your room is big enough to get good results. But you really do need bass traps if you ever hope to hear what you're doing while mixing.

--Ethan

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:19 am

thanks Ethan....that's encouraging!...is there a way to calculate which frequencies will be absorbed by a given thickness of wood and insulation used in a trap?....regarding Sayer's combination trap/diffusor design: if a bass trap is angled or rounded does it affect it's ability to trap bass frequencies?

Ethan Winer · Post by **Ethan Winer** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:54 am

Raw,

> is there a way to calculate which frequencies will be absorbed by a given thickness of wood and insulation used in a trap? <

Yes.

Oh, you want the formula?

I know it's in Everest's book, or you could just follow the plans on my site and know the traps will work:

www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

While you're at my site you can follow the link to my main Articles page and see other articles about this stuff. Likewise, there are even more such articles on my company's site, linked under my name below.

> regarding Sayer's combination trap/diffusor design <

I'll let John comment on that.

--Ethan

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:57 am

...thanks Ethan for keeping up with my questions!...I will study your site's information some more as I'm still confused on what would be best to do about low frequency absorbtion in my situation...I'm actually in a space that has only 3 actual walls (similar to the picture of your space where you have the panel traps mounted everywhere but my equipment is oriented differently)...one of my side walls would be the open space where I have a free standing movable wall (made of high frequency absorbtive material) taking up approximately half the length of the "room". I know that sounds confusing so I hope to post a drawing of my situation and maybe you could comment on where and how to place corner and/or panel traps effectively to tame the lows....I'm considering John's corner resonator units with your panel traps on the rear wall...thanks again for the reply!

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:39 am

rawtunes wrote:thanks Giles & Ethan for your replies...

Giles:...if I understand your comment correctly then a decent acoustical environment is not necessary for a professional sound engineer to produce professional results.....then why do people go through the expense and effort to build world class studios for musicians and sound engineers to work in?

that would be incorrect.

A Perfect environment is not needed for a good engineer to get good results would be a btter statement.

You can end up with a Decent environment based on your dimensions.

heck i used to use my Recording truck to mix in before I built my Studio and got great results.

And as Ethan said Bass Trapping will be the MAJOR thing for your size room

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:02 am

Your combination of room dimensions isn't all that bad - it would have a slight "hole" in response at around 40 hZ, but otherwise no worse for modal distribution than a lot of rooms.

Being a relatively small rooms it will still need bass traps for sure; also the usual first reflection points absorbed, preferably with either rigid fiberglass or rockwool... Steve

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:15 am

Hi giles.....thanks for your clarification on that!....I had a feeling I misunderstood what you said

knightfly:...glad to get your take on this also!....glad to hear the dimensions are not all that bad....that's encouraging!

I am grateful for everyone's help here....I'm gonna put up that drawing I spoke of and hopefully you all could give me some input on where to place the bass traps...will it do any good to place a trap in the "corners" where there is no adjoining wall?....and speaking of the traps themselves: if I follow Ethan's DIY panel trap plans and want to build them to "stand alone" (...or "hang alone") rather than built attached to the wall, what thickness of plywood would I use on the back of the trap so it would still be effective at the rated frequencies?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:34 am

I Posted for everyone's benefit

rawtunes · Post by **rawtunes** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:58 am

...thanks giles!