Acoustic for Rehearsal room and demo studio all in one

[sira]

Hello, I'm Dino from Solin, Croatia, this is my first post, and I hope I have not violated some forum rules.
I consider this forum a treasury of knowledge and I can say that I've learned a lot from reading.
My knowledge of English is not very good, but I hope you can still understand, read and study the forum for some time now, and I hope I have put together questions well.

I wish that we can use the room for band rehearsal as well as demo studio, for live recording on 16 channels,

Room measures 5.66m x 5.38m, heighht is 2.53m
We will make laminate flooring, concrete walls were coated with styrofoam 2 cm because we had problems with water condensation until we improved ventilation.

I would also make a "passing" vocal booth,
third room, leaving as small as a warehouse,
it is a small concrete cube that measures 2.10m x 1.70m x 2.53m

On the draft concrete walls are shown as "bricks" (it is 30cm thick concrete) this "panel" wall is essentially only a 2 cm thick wooden partition (a red wall in the photographs),
Ventilation tubes are drown in red cubes.



there are also two panoramic photos to see the current look of the room.





The room is in an atomic shelter two floors below the ground and we have no problems with the neighbors, only with the sound of the room


My idea was to set panels of 20 cm of stone wool in all vertical corners,
in the air gap to the walls in the corner would put old-fashioned carpets,
what we have down there (you can see them in the photos)

Which is the best wool on our markets (Croatia, Europe), how much I've managed to do, Rockwool "steprock" or "frontrock".

I'm thinking of sliding down the ceiling to close these ventilation pipes
which pass through a room with stone wool 10 cm,
and use the same ventilation pipes as bearings
for the remaining flat part of the ceiling (about 10 cm away from the ceiling) with a wool of 5 cm,
the wool would not be closed in knauf, but would work the wooden frames that would close the fabric,
so the entire ceiling in the wool, the next 10 cm wool slopes, the middle 5 cm.





If I'm wrong, you'd like to fix me before I get into spending money and work.
I'm thinking of sliding down the ceiling to close these ventilation pipes
which pass through a room with stone wool 10 cm,
and use the same ventilation pipes as bearings
for the remaining flat part of the ceiling (about 10 cm away from the ceiling) with a wool of 5 cm,
the wool would not be closed in knauf, but would work the wooden frames that would close the fabric,
so the entire ceiling in the wool, the next 10 cm wool slopes, the middle 5 cm.

If I'm wrong, you'd love to fix me before I get into wear and work

Budget is about 1000 USD (Rockwool steprock in Croatia is about 7,5 USD for 1m2) wood for grill is about 0,75 USD for 1 meter lenghth.


calculation of room modes:

Room Length : 5.66 meter
Room Width : 5,36 meter
Room Height : 2.53 meter

=== Axial ===
Axial Length
30,06Hz Hz
60,12Hz Hz
90,19Hz Hz
120,25Hz Hz
150,31Hz Hz
180,37Hz Hz
210,43Hz Hz
240,49Hz Hz
270,56Hz Hz

Axial Width
31,74Hz Hz
63,49Hz Hz
95,23Hz Hz
126,98Hz Hz
158,72Hz Hz
190,47Hz Hz
222,21Hz Hz
253,96Hz Hz
285,70Hz Hz

Axial Height
67,25Hz Hz
134,51Hz Hz
201,76Hz Hz
269,01Hz Hz
336,26Hz Hz
403,52Hz Hz
470,77Hz Hz
538,02Hz Hz
605,28Hz Hz


=== Tangential ===
Tangential Length & Width
43,72Hz Hz
70,25Hz Hz
99,87Hz Hz
130,49Hz Hz
67,99Hz Hz
87,44Hz Hz
112,62Hz Hz
140,49Hz Hz
95,61Hz Hz
110,29Hz Hz
131,16Hz Hz
155,75Hz Hz
124,37Hz Hz
135,98Hz Hz
153,39Hz Hz
174,88Hz Hz

Tangential Length & Height
73,67Hz Hz
137,82Hz Hz
203,99Hz Hz
270,69Hz Hz
90,21Hz Hz
147,33Hz Hz
210,53Hz Hz
275,65Hz Hz
112,50Hz Hz
161,94Hz Hz
221,00Hz Hz
283,73Hz Hz
137,78Hz Hz
180,42Hz Hz
234,87Hz Hz
294,66Hz Hz

Tangential Width & Height
74,37Hz Hz
138,20Hz Hz
204,24Hz Hz
270,88Hz Hz
92,49Hz Hz
148,74Hz Hz
211,51Hz Hz
276,40Hz Hz
116,59Hz Hz
164,81Hz Hz
223,11Hz Hz
285,37Hz Hz
143,69Hz Hz
184,97Hz Hz
238,39Hz Hz
297,47Hz Hz


=== Oblique ===
80,21Hz Hz
141,43Hz Hz
97,25Hz Hz
95,63Hz Hz
110,31Hz Hz
150,71Hz Hz
151,74Hz Hz
160,43Hz Hz

[Soundman2020]

Hi Sira, and Welcome!

My knowledge of English is not very good, but I hope you can still understand, read and study the forum for some time now, and I hope I have put together questions well.

Your English is more than fine! Perfectly intelligible.

concrete walls were coated with styrofoam 2 cm because we had problems with water condensation

Styrofoam is fine for thermal insulation, but it is no use for acoustics. You can leave it in place if it is doing what you wanted it to do, and just add acoustic treatment in front of it. But if you already solved the condensation problem in a different way, and you can remove the styrofoam now, then that would give you an extra 2cm for treatment!

The room is in an atomic shelter two floors below the ground and we have no problems with the neighbors,

Wow! I think this is the first time on the forum for an "Atomic Bomb Proof Studio"! Cool!

in the air gap to the walls in the corner would put old-fashioned carpets,

Carpet is pretty useless in a studio. It does the opposite of what you need, acoustically. Carpet absorbs the highs very well, the mids randomly and unpredictable, and the lows not at all. In reality, you need the opposite: You need treatment that adsorbs the LOWS very well, the mids in a controlled and subdued manner, and the highs very little. If you have a lot of carpet in a room, it will sound dull, boomy, "heavy", and unpleasant.

Which is the best wool on our markets (Croatia, Europe), how much I've managed to do, Rockwool "steprock" or "frontrock".

I'm not familiar with the "steprock" or "frontrock" products, but Rockwool makes many insulation products. If you can get there "rockwool safe and sound" product, that will probably work fine. The other option would be to use fiberglass insulation instead. Can you get Owens Corning brand products in your country? If so, look for their "OC-703" product, or their "SAB Batts in Bags" product.

I'm thinking of sliding down the ceiling to close these ventilation pipes

Then how will you ventilate the room? You do need ventilation....

You seem to be planning on treating the ceiling mainly, but we don't yet know what the problems are in your room. Also, yo mentioned that you want to use the room for rehearsal and tracking, but I do see a desk and speaker set up as though you were planning to do mixing in there as well... so it's not really clear what you want to do here, or what the current issues are. I guess it sounds pretty bad in there, which is why you came to the forum, but we'd need to know HOW bad, and in what way it sounds bad. It would be good if you could do an acoustic analysis in there, using REW, so we can see what the problems are, then help you decide on how to fix them.


- Stuart -

[sira]

Thanks for answering

Hi Sira, and Welcome!
Styrofoam is fine for thermal insulation, but it is no use for acoustics. You can leave it in place if it is doing what you wanted it to do, and just add acoustic treatment in front of it. But if you already solved the condensation problem in a different way, and you can remove the styrofoam now, then that would give you an extra 2cm for treatment!

I will leave it on walls, mostly because in the summer there is a great temperature difference, especially when we use ventilation and embed a new, warm air into the shelter and after that, untreated walls are moistened by water condensation.

Wow! I think this is the first time on the forum for an "Atomic Bomb Proof Studio"! Cool!

This is common in the larger cities of the former Yugoslavia. It was the only socialist state outside the "Iron curtain", we had a rock scene, we were open for west and east, fo example, our biggest bands recorded their albums in London in 70-ies, but we also had that socialist approach to the war
If you want, I can photograph double doors at the entrance, both of masive iron, water tanks, filter ventilation machines ...
Many bands today use these spaces for rehearsal, in this shelter there is two bands, we are small band but we have contract with croatian Major label "Croatia Records", and one album, other band is "TBF", they are stars in Croatia and ex Yugoslavia, you can see the plan of whole shelter here:

Carpet is pretty useless in a studio. It does the opposite of what you need, acoustically. Carpet absorbs the highs very well, the mids randomly and unpredictable, and the lows not at all. In reality, you need the opposite: You need treatment that adsorbs the LOWS very well, the mids in a controlled and subdued manner, and the highs very little. If you have a lot of carpet in a room, it will sound dull, boomy, "heavy", and unpleasant.

Yes, we have that kind of sound, boomy, heavy and unpleasant

I'm not familiar with the "steprock" or "frontrock" products, but Rockwool makes many insulation products. If you can get there "rockwool safe and sound" product, that will probably work fine. The other option would be to use fiberglass insulation instead. Can you get Owens Corning brand products in your country? If so, look for their "OC-703" product, or their "SAB Batts in Bags" product.

No, we have only Rockwool and Knauff products. "Steprock" and "frontrock" are products of "Rockwool", "steprock" is wool for floors, and "frontrock" is wool for outside walls, steprock is heavyer, but I can't find specifications for Gas Flow Resistivity

Then how will you ventilate the room? You do need ventilation....

would close the pipes, not the holes for air intake in the pipes

You seem to be planning on treating the ceiling mainly, but we don't yet know what the problems are in your room. Also, yo mentioned that you want to use the room for rehearsal and tracking, but I do see a desk and speaker set up as though you were planning to do mixing in there as well... so it's not really clear what you want to do here, or what the current issues are. I guess it sounds pretty bad in there, which is why you came to the forum, but we'd need to know HOW bad, and in what way it sounds bad. It would be good if you could do an acoustic analysis in there, using REW, so we can see what the problems are, then help you decide on how to fix them.


- Stuart -

The main goal is to make a Free reflection zone on my sweet spot, for tracking and mixing, but also to make the rehearsal sessions more enjoyable, I do not intend to do the "real" studio because I do not have enough money, and I know the acoustics of the control rooms and the playing rooms require different treatments, I'm trying to make the best compromise.

I have to find good measure mic, only mic with omni capsule that I have is "Oktava MK-12", but i suppose the measurements with this microphone would not be credible.

Thanks.
Dino


Thanks, Dino

[SoundproofingPr]

Speak to these champs - used them for advice and product, self fitted and it was awesome.

[SPAM LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR - "CHAMPION" SPAMMER BANNED ONE DAY LATER, AFTER POSTING YET MORE SPAM]

[Soundman2020]

Speak to these champs - used them for advice and product, self fitted and it was awesome.

[SPAM LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

It might be a little expensive to ship from Australia to Croatia . . .

You also seem to be completely forgetting about the rather large issue of DESIGNING the acoustics to solve the serious issues mentioned by the OP... Buying a bunch of questionable stuff is one thing, but getting the design right in order to know WHAT to buy and WHERE to put it, is a very different thing... which you did not even mention! I wonder why?

self fitted and it was awesome.

What's "awesome" here, is the bare-faced audacious lies! In this thread, you claim to have "spoken to the" people at the company (whose spam link I deleted), "asked them for advice" (your words, my emphasis), then you say you "fitted" the products yourself.... yet in your OTHER post (the one that got you banned...), you claim to be the owner and manager of that same company, and offer advice on "soundproofing"! (whatever that may be....). So what's the truth here? Are you just a guy who called the company and bought products? Or are you really the company itself? All of it? Or just the Chief Spammer? Are you a customer of that spamming company, or are you the owner?

Either way, its really pathetic. Rightfully banned. (I was even considering leaving your spam link in there, so people could find your company, and identify it's business ethics (or lack thereof!) before deciding whether or not to do business...)

Strangely enough, the company name isn't even listed in the Australian Business Register, nor the Australian Securities & Investments Commission, so it isn't a publicly traded or privately owned business.... Hmmmmm ... so what type of business is it?

non-registered-business-australia.jpg

non-registered-business-australia-2b.jpg

- Stuart -

[sira]

Speak to these champs - used them for advice and product, self fitted and it was awesome.

[SPAM LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

It might be a little expensive to ship from Australia to Croatia . . .

- Stuart -

Nooo, it's very close and not expensive...
Oh wait, Australia, not Austria