New Studio design in Sunland Park NM (outside El Paso TX)

[SignorMars]

After years of lurking on this board, reading the books (Gervais, Everest, and Newell) and working on building a business that justifies the expense, I'm finally going to make the leap and build out a studio. My business is probably 50% tracking, 45% mixing, 5% mastering on average, so priorities are a (relatively) large live room, comfortable and accurate control room, and comfortable hospitality rooms (lounge(s), kitchenette, etc). I have been operating out of a rental house, but that arrangement is coming to an end this month, mostly because the business has outgrown the space. Timeline for completion is the completely unhelpful "as soon as possible," since I have a waiting list of bands/artists patiently awaiting the opening of the new location. I do have a contractor (we had previously attempted to rent a different space, but the landlord rented it out from under us without informing us... literally walked in and found someone else had already started building out THEIR business, even though we had been given keys!)

I have a lease on a space in Sunland Park, NM, which is about 1 mile over the state line into New Mexico from El Paso, TX (where I live... I can actually see the space from my house!) and about 1.5 miles from Mexico. It's a somewhat isolated warehouse strip center. Outer walls are cinderblock, dividing walls between the spaces are 1 hour firewalls (1 layer 5/8" drywall both sides, 2x4s I believe 16" oc, though I haven't confirmed that yet, insulation in the cavity). Ceiling clearance to the rafters is 16', the actual ceiling slopes from 21' at the front of the building to 19' at the back. Composition/built up roof, if I remember correctly. It's somewhat beefier than standard as the previous roof was removed by a windstorm a year or two ago! Floor/foundation is concrete slab on grade. There is already a front office area and a restroom, as well as a set of stairs that lead up to a loft like space on top of the office. There is a rollup overhead door to the rear of where the CR will probably go, so that will have to be boxed in. On one side is a warehouse where a mechanic stores cars, the other is a very low traffic office. We will be tracking full bands (mostly rock, though we get some jazz, folk, country, etc from time to time), so I'm hoping for 50-60 dB of TL. Planning on room within a room with two layers 5/8" drywall on each side. Stud walls will be wood, 2x4, 16" oc, with 1" gap between the stud walls (giving a resonant frequency in the 20s, as per the MAM spreadsheet that gets passed around here). Three phase electric already installed in the space. There is an existing evaporative cooler, which will be used to cool the non-recording spaces. Mini splits will be installed in the live and control rooms and fresh air will come via a fan tied into the evap system (with silencer boxes on each run to help maintain the isolation).

Budget is approx $15,000, with the knowledge that we may have to push that up closer to $20,000. I am of the mindset that I'd rather spend a little more upfront than have to deal with problems down the line, but, at the same time, I can't afford to put $150,000 into a build, nor would that be financially reasonable for the size of the recording market here. I (and my business partners and some willing volunteers) will do some of the work to keep costs down, but I also have a contractor to handle the big tasks that either require experts or would take us weeks to months to do ourselves. That budget is for the build out itself. Equipment is already taken care of, and I am planning on the treatment to be a separate expenditure. If we can get all of it for the amount, that's great, but since I anticipate the treatment side being an ongoing process, I am not including it in the construction budget for now.

As I said before, I have researched studio acoustics and construction obsessively for at least a decade, meaning I'm pretty sure I know just enough to really screw it up! "Just enough knowledge to know I don't know anything" to quote a song... I'm hoping to build the control room as a rectangle with dimensions matching Sepmeyer's second ratio, and the live room as an assymetrical block, and then to treat both of them as necessary, using Room EQ Wizard readings. I also want 2 (maaaybe 3) iso booths. This is where one of the first questions come up! I haven't worked at a studio with actual booths in quite awhile... My house space had a spare bedroom and laundry room, and the big studio I work at (used to be full time, now "as needed") doesn't have regular iso booths in 2 of the 3 tracking rooms. One has a side and back room that are like small tracking rooms, the other has a house next door that has been gutted and is used as both iso booths and a live echo chamber. That being the case, I honestly don't know how much importance I should put on sight lines from the CR to the ISOs. I typically use the ISOs for amps, not people, but there may be occasions where I need to tuck a vocalist away for live tracking, so I know I need to keep good sight lines for everyone in the live room and booths, but I rarely put vocalists into the booth for vocal tracking, so I don't know how much priority I should put on sight lines to the CR. With that in mind, there are two places I see Iso booths working in my draft layout: Either to the right of the live room, in the alcove above the hallway and kitchenette, or against the back wall. I want the place to be freelance friendly, as I already have a handful of competent engineers asking to rent time, but at the same time, there's not a ton of competition for freelance-friendly studios here, unless the band can pony up the day rate at the big studio I mentioned earlier, and it's not cheap (and doesn't have iso booths in 2 of 3 studios, anyways!). Which location for the iso booths makes the most sense? Is there an arrangement I'm missing? Am I overthinking this?

Non-studio space: The office will be cleaned up, repainted, etc, and become the primary lounge. Paint, curtains, couches, mood lighting... The bathroom will remain a bathroom. Again, cleaned up, redecorated. The spot where you can see the shop sink is where we will put in a kitchenette. Sink, some cabinets, and a fridge. Microwave, coffee maker, etc. The "loft" space upstairs will be closed in and turned into a bunk room/private lounge. There's already a water heater and appropriate water and drain lines up there, so we should be able to put in a shower for out of towners who need a place to stay (no more bands crashing at my house, yay!). All of this is of course somewhat secondary to the recording spaces, and I anticipate doing the majority of this work (besides the plumbing) myself with my business partner and willing volunteers.

As I mentioned before, the partition walls to the other spaces are standard 1 hour firewalls, with 5/8" drywall on both sides. The owner/landlord has given me permission to remove the drywall on my side, but expressed concern that the adjoining office might have electrical and/or plumbing in those walls (the electric in my space is run on the surface of the wall with conduit). Am I right to assume that it's worth the logistic hassle to remove the drywall in order to avoid the three leaf effect, or can I/should I just compensate by beefing up my walls?

Doors/windows: I want a window from the CR to the LR. I've worked both with and without and I heavily prefer with. I plan on building it (and sizing the glass) as per Rod's book. I don't remember offhand what size that makes the glass, but I have it written somewhere in my piles of notes. Actual size of the window will depend on the prices I can get locally and where the rest of the budget falls. Big as we can afford, without getting ridiculous about it. Windows for the Iso booths would be nice, too, but depend on final layout and budget. Like I said, I don't usually put people in the booths, just amps. As for doors, I am still working on combing through all the threads about doors, and need to consult the accessibility requirements for NM, as far as spacing between doors, or the amount of force required to open them, should I go with single superdoors.

I feel like I am forgetting about a hundred other questions, which I'm sure I'll remember later, so I'm sure this post will be edited soon.

[Soundman2020]

Hi there "SignoMars", and Welcome to the madhouse... errrr I mean forum!

Timeline for completion is the completely unhelpful "as soon as possible," since I have a waiting list of bands/artists patiently awaiting the opening of the new location.

I'm sure you already realize this, but when it comes to properly designing a complete facility such as the one you are talking about "as soon as possible" is a good few months down the line, realistically.

literally walked in and found someone else had already started building out THEIR business, even though we had been given keys!

Wow! That's a bit steep! I'll bet you had a few words to say to the landlord about that! Must have been quite frustrating, and a big shock, to say the least.

Ceiling clearance to the rafters is 16', the actual ceiling slopes from 21' at the front of the building to 19' at the back.

Excellent! That's very nice. Gives you a very nice high ceiling, and plenty of place to have the HVAC ducts and silencers up there. I'm liking this.

Floor/foundation is concrete slab on grade.

Couldn't be better.

There is a rollup overhead door to the rear of where the CR will probably go, so that will have to be boxed in.

Yup. Smart move.

On one side is a warehouse where a mechanic stores cars,

Does he also work on them in there? In other words, might you suddenly find loud roaring engines, power tools, and other workshop type noises, that could potentially trash your recording sessions?

so I'm hoping for 50-60 dB of TL.

A reasonable and do-able target. There should be no problem with achieving that.

lanning on room within a room with two layers 5/8" drywall on each side. Stud walls will be wood, 2x4, 16" oc, with 1" gap between the stud walls (giving a resonant frequency in the 20s,

Probably a bit higher than that... for two layers of 5/8 over an 8" air gap, you'd get between 28 and 39 Hz, depending on the damping (insulation) inside the cavity. Assuming you do it well, you'd get good isolation above about 55 Hz, and total Tl would be in the region of 56 dB.

There is an existing evaporative cooler, which will be used to cool the non-recording spaces. Mini splits will be installed in the live and control rooms and fresh air will come via a fan tied into the evap system (with silencer boxes on each run to help maintain the isolation).

Sounds like a good plan.

Budget is approx $15,000, with the knowledge that we may have to push that up closer to $20,000.

To be honest, that's very much on the tight side. You didn't say what the total dimensions are, but from the numbers on your diagram it looks like you have around 1,400 ft2 there. 20k divided by 1400 gives you only around US$ 14 per square foot. That isn't realistic for what you say you want to do. 60 dB of isolation and a high quality mixing/mastering suite is a fairly serious undertaking, and I doubt that you'll be able to do it on a shoestring budget. I would seriously re-think that.

The cost of doing the drywall just for the ceilings along is going to be around US$ 2,500, plus another US$ 6,500 for the walls. And that is JUST the dry-walling itself! Without considering the stud framing, insulation caulk, backer rod, mud, tape, and all the rest of it. I very much doubt you'd be able to get basic structure in place for less than 15 k, minimum, then you'd need a whole lot more for doors, windows, HVAC, electrical, and most of all acoustics.

Don't take it as Gospel truth, but at a very rough estimate, I'd say you'd need about 50 k to do this right. (I'm assuming you already have all the gear you need... if you need gear too, add in many more dollars).

Sorry yo just dump the sad truth on you like a ton of bricks, but a 15k budget just isn't realistic for this type of facility. That would be about right for a single-room studio in a basement, but a 1400 square foot commercial facility is a different story entirely.

Equipment is already taken care of,

Whew! I was hoping you'd say that.

and I am planning on the treatment to be a separate expenditure. If we can get all of it for the amount, that's great, but since I anticipate the treatment side being an ongoing process, I am not including it in the construction budget for now.

It should all go together, really. The facility won't be usable as a studio until it is treated, and the basic treatment needs to happen at the same time as the construction... it's hard to separate those. Especially in the case of the control room, which you say needs to be good enough for mastering.

I'm hoping to build the control room as a rectangle with dimensions matching Sepmeyer's second ratio,

You could do that, yes, but if you are going to all this trouble, and you want a room that can be used to master in, I'd suggest going for an RFZ design. Since you have the opportunity to make it the best it can be, you'd be silly not to... RFZ gives you so many benefits, that it really makes sense.

and the live room as an assymetrical block,

Live rooms do not have to be asymmetric. They can be if you want, but it's a myth that you must angle walls to have a usable live room. Not one of the live rooms in Abbey Road is asymmetric, for example...

That being the case, I honestly don't know how much importance I should put on sight lines from the CR to the ISOs.

Personally, I think good sight lines between all rooms are critical. When I'm designing a facility, I usually spend lots of time trying to make that happen as best as possible, so everyone has a clear view of everyone else. Musicians tend to play a lot tighter, and sessions run more smoothly, when all involved can see each other.

but I rarely put vocalists into the booth for vocal tracking,

Will you be using this studio only for your own projects? Or might you also want to rent it out to other engineers and producers that record in different ways? If it will only ever be you at the desk, then fine, but if you want to have the option of having other people run the session, they will likely do things differently from what you do, and they might very well expect to have people in every booth, with clear views all around...

I want the place to be freelance friendly, as I already have a handful of competent engineers asking to rent time,

That answers my question above: So I can answer yours: Make absolutely certain that you have crystal clear sight lines all around, or you won't have too many freelancers coming back for a second session... especially if you have serious competition around town. If there are several other established studios around, the ONLY two ways you can get noticed is to have a substantially better studio, or be substantially cheaper. If you are aiming for "cheaper", then you are already on the wrong track by setting your goals so high, so I'm assuming that you are aiming to get noticed and pull in business by having a better studio. So things like sight-tlines, RFZ, and clean acoustics are critical.

Which location for the iso booths makes the most sense?

The one that provides the best sight lines, easiest and fastest load-in / load-out, clearest traffic paths with least interruption, and best acoustics. Those are the main factors that I take into account when designing places like yours.

The owner/landlord has given me permission to remove the drywall on my side, but expressed concern that the adjoining office might have electrical and/or plumbing in those walls

Very probable! That will be an issue.

Am I right to assume that it's worth the logistic hassle to remove the drywall in order to avoid the three leaf effect, or can I/should I just compensate by beefing up my walls?

Toss up.... but unless you already know what you are getting into by pulling off the drywall, it might be better to forget about that and go for 3-leaf, compensating with more mass on the middle leaf and larger air gaps.

I don't remember offhand what size that makes the glass,

No less than then same surface density as the leaf it is in. If the leaf is 2 x 5/8, the glass in each leaf will be at least 7/16" laminated glass, with acoustic PVB.

Actual size of the window will depend on the prices I can get locally and where the rest of the budget falls.

Wrong approach! Sorry to be so "in your face", but that's not the right way to size your windows. At least, not if you want a successful studio. The right size for your glass is the size that gets you the best sight lines for the least acoustic impact. Period. That's the only sane way to determine window size. If you end up with tiny windows that provides lousy slight lines, and people can't see each other, then say good bye to those freelancers being repeat customers... It would be very shortsighted to kill your future revenue stream by trying to save a few bucks up front on the glass.

I feel like I am forgetting about a hundred other questions, which I'm sure I'll remember later, so I'm sure this post will be edited soon.

Questions is what we are here for! but please don't edit your initial post to add new questions to it: Rather, add new posts to your thread with those questions, each time they come to mind.



- Stuart -

[SignorMars]

Hi there "SignoMars", and Welcome to the madhouse... errrr I mean forum!

Thanks! Very excited to be reading my own design thread, after years of reading others!

I'm sure you already realize this, but when it comes to properly designing a complete facility such as the one you are talking about "as soon as possible" is a good few months down the line, realistically.

Yep. I know we are looking at months, not weeks, and we have warned our clients of this. I've also read enough build threads to know that a timeline of months instead of years is something to be thankful for. Part of what kept me from responding for a few days is trying to get a few more sessions in before we have to move out of our current spot at the end of the month!

literally walked in and found someone else had already started building out THEIR business, even though we had been given keys!

Wow! That's a bit steep! I'll bet you had a few words to say to the landlord about that! Must have been quite frustrating, and a big shock, to say the least.

He stopped answering/returning my calls, emails, texts, etc... so the choice words I had for him were never directly delivered. Said quite a few about him though!! Upside is that this new space is better. Higher ceilings, more usable layout, and more up to code. Only sad thing is the old spot had a bomb shelter in the basement that we were going to turn into a reverb chamber. Oh well!

On one side is a warehouse where a mechanic stores cars,

Does he also work on them in there? In other words, might you suddenly find loud roaring engines, power tools, and other workshop type noises, that could potentially trash your recording sessions?

Nope. He has a shop at the other end of the complex where he does the work. This warehouse is just for parking cars.

Budget is approx $15,000, with the knowledge that we may have to push that up closer to $20,000.

To be honest, that's very much on the tight side. You didn't say what the total dimensions are, but from the numbers on your diagram it looks like you have around 1,400 ft2 there. 20k divided by 1400 gives you only around US$ 14 per square foot. That isn't realistic for what you say you want to do. 60 dB of isolation and a high quality mixing/mastering suite is a fairly serious undertaking, and I doubt that you'll be able to do it on a shoestring budget. I would seriously re-think that.


The cost of doing the drywall just for the ceilings along is going to be around US$ 2,500, plus another US$ 6,500 for the walls. And that is JUST the dry-walling itself! Without considering the stud framing, insulation caulk, backer rod, mud, tape, and all the rest of it. I very much doubt you'd be able to get basic structure in place for less than 15 k, minimum, then you'd need a whole lot more for doors, windows, HVAC, electrical, and most of all acoustics.

Don't take it as Gospel truth, but at a very rough estimate, I'd say you'd need about 50 k to do this right. (I'm assuming you already have all the gear you need... if you need gear too, add in many more dollars).

Sorry yo just dump the sad truth on you like a ton of bricks, but a 15k budget just isn't realistic for this type of facility. That would be about right for a single-room studio in a basement, but a 1400 square foot commercial facility is a different story entirely.

Yeah... I was expecting an answer all those lines. We want to do it right, since that's been a big part of our success in this market so far. There are a lot of studios with a "that's good enough" or kludged together sort of approach and attitude, and we try to be professional and thorough and go the full distance to make things great, instead of good enough. So, we are pulling together a little more cash, figuring out ways to reduce the overall cost, etc... We want to do it the right way!

Equipment is already taken care of,

Whew! I was hoping you'd say that.

Yes, thank goodness. We have a 28 channel Neotek Elan (I have a simple, but accurate, mockup of it for Sketchup that I'm using while working on the CR design), an MCI JH24 2" machine, Orion32 for PT in and out, small outboard collection, decent mic closet, and a collection of instruments, so we have as close to "enough" gear as any of us ever get. We will never stop expanding the collection, I'm sure, but we don't need to budget for any major gear purchases yet.

and I am planning on the treatment to be a separate expenditure. If we can get all of it for the amount, that's great, but since I anticipate the treatment side being an ongoing process, I am not including it in the construction budget for now.

It should all go together, really. The facility won't be usable as a studio until it is treated, and the basic treatment needs to happen at the same time as the construction... it's hard to separate those. Especially in the case of the control room, which you say needs to be good enough for mastering.

Good point. I'll adjust the plan accordingly.

I'm hoping to build the control room as a rectangle with dimensions matching Sepmeyer's second ratio,

You could do that, yes, but if you are going to all this trouble, and you want a room that can be used to master in, I'd suggest going for an RFZ design. Since you have the opportunity to make it the best it can be, you'd be silly not to... RFZ gives you so many benefits, that it really makes sense.

Again, we want to do it right, so that sounds like a plan. I'll need you guys to hold my hand on getting it right, but I know I can count on that!

and the live room as an assymetrical block,

Live rooms do not have to be asymmetric. They can be if you want, but it's a myth that you must angle walls to have a usable live room. Not one of the live rooms in Abbey Road is asymmetric, for example...

I know. The asymmetry is more about trying to use as much of the available space as possible, not any misguided acoustic philosophy.

Personally, I think good sight lines between all rooms are critical. When I'm designing a facility, I usually spend lots of time trying to make that happen as best as possible, so everyone has a clear view of everyone else. Musicians tend to play a lot tighter, and sessions run more smoothly, when all involved can see each other.

Will do. Thanks!

Toss up.... but unless you already know what you are getting into by pulling off the drywall, it might be better to forget about that and go for 3-leaf, compensating with more mass on the middle leaf and larger air gaps.

Sounds good. So if leaf 1 is the live room wall, leaf 2 is the firewall on our side of the space, and leaf 3 is the firewall on their side, we would add extra mass to leaf 2, correct? Is adding 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (for a total of 3 layers on leaf 2) overkill? Or just about right? How much increase do you think is advisable for the air gap? Are we looking at 1-2" more, or would it need to be a more significant increase. Is there an equation that can give me some rough numbers for TL and resonance of a MAMAM system?

]No less than then same surface density as the leaf it is in. If the leaf is 2 x 5/8, the glass in each leaf will be at least 7/16" laminated glass, with acoustic PVB.

Thanks!

Wrong approach! Sorry to be so "in your face", but that's not the right way to size your windows. At least, not if you want a successful studio. The right size for your glass is the size that gets you the best sight lines for the least acoustic impact. Period. That's the only sane way to determine window size. If you end up with tiny windows that provides lousy slight lines, and people can't see each other, then say good bye to those freelancers being repeat customers... It would be very shortsighted to kill your future revenue stream by trying to save a few bucks up front on the glass.

Noted. I will work out the sight lines and then figure out window size from there.

Questions is what we are here for! but please don't edit your initial post to add new questions to it: Rather, add new posts to your thread with those questions, each time they come to mind.

Thanks! I really appreciate the help.