Photo question - your help would be appreciated

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:27 am

Hi there,

I am planning to do my walls and ceilings exactly the same as this photo but I am unsure on a few things.

If some one could comment on my questions that would be great.

(1) What is put up first, the walls or the ceiling?

(2)There seem to be some coloured pads at the top of the wall where it joins the ceiling, what are these? are they neopreane pads?

(3)If they are rubber pads how do you seal this join when the walls are inside out like this

(4) Is it important that the ceiling is mounted seperatly? My plan was to mount the ceiling joists on top of the wall frames so it would not touch the original finished gib board ceiling at all. Would this present any problems. It seems an easier construction method than trying to join joists to the original ceiling?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. I real awful that I am doing heaps of asking and basically have nothing to offer in return because I am so new to this.

Thanks

JohnG

Post by **Aaronw** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:55 am

The sequence and construction methods will vary depending on how much isolation you need. How critical is isolation for you?

Scroll through the sticky's at the top of the forum. There are several diagrams, pictures, and ideas on which methods or techniques to use.

(1) What is put up first, the walls or the ceiling?

In my construction, I'm putting the walls up first. Decoupling them from the joists above and also sitting on a floating floor.

(4) Is it important that the ceiling is mounted seperatly? My plan was to mount the ceiling joists on top of the wall frames so it would not touch the original finished gib board ceiling at all. Would this present any problems. It seems an easier construction method than trying to join joists to the original ceiling?

What do you mean the original finished gyp board ceiling? Is this setup for a basement? you may be getting into a 3 leaf system here depending on the current/existing structure.

Aaron

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:03 am

Thanks Aaron,

I am looking for good isolation for drums, bass, gtars etc.

The existing room is a single story self standing compleated structure.

The existing ceiling in the room is gib board connected directly to the roof trusses. Imagine a small single level one room house. That's me.

Thanks

JohnG

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:42 am

In the photo - the ceiling goes up first.

The stuff at the top of the wall is interlocking playmat cut into strips. The top of the wall is not connected to the ceiling it is psuhed up and compresses the playmat with a heavy dose of caulk.

I have exactly the same construction as in the photo (with a single story free standing building with a concrete slab) - the sound isolation is incredible.

Here is a similar photo showing the wall going up

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:11 am

Thanks Andrew,

The thing I am stumped on is:

How did you / do you attach the new ceiling joists to the original gib board ceiling when you start construction with the ceiling?

I,m thinking that you just pull down the original gib board ceiling to expose the bottom of the roof trusses and then start the new ceiling from there but this seems a compleate waste when it is already up, sealed and plastered.

Thanks

JohnG

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:45 am

In the photo you attached - there is RC-1 channel attached to the joists and 2 layers of drywall connected to that.

I've never heard of gib board - can you explain what that is for me?

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:37 am

Hi Andrew,

Sorry, New Zealand term, Gib Board is plasterboard, Gib is the manufacturer here.

So what I am saying is that the roof is already pre finised with plasterboard attached to the ceiling joists. It is an existing room in my house already compleated.

I either have to rip down this plasterboard to expose the roof joists (which I do not want to do or some how attach new joists and new plasterboard to this existing plasterboard ceiling.

Thanks

Johng

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:34 pm

Is there a room above that you want to isolate the sound from or is it attic space above?

Personally I'd be loath to tear out the new ceiling just to add RC-1 and would be more tempted to add more layers of drywall.

How tall are your ceilings? If they are tall then you could probably add a new ceiling on top of the internal walls. In this case you would have to build the walls first and then span with new joists.

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:46 pm

Thanks Andrew,

No there,s nothing above the existing ceiling, just attic/roof space.

The room is 7foot high. I think I will just make the new walls slightly shorter, run a new 2x4 joist over the top, fill the cavity with insulation and then add two layers of drywall.

Do you think that should do the job?

JohnG

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:24 pm

The problem will be that if the existing ceiling is only 7 ft high then you are going to end up with a very low ceiling. John / Knightfly can comment much better than me - but I think given the ceiling height I would just add more layers of drywall to the existing ceiling.

Sen · Post by **Sen** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:06 pm

Hi John,
That indeed would be a very low ceiling. What would ripping the existing plaster off leave you with?? How much room between that and the roof? It could be worth it to ripp that down (trying to save some boards) lift it up higher (attaching it to some joists that you would attach to trusses or something like that ) and then putting the inner ceiling onto the joists that your current ceiling is attached to now... does thta make any sense?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:16 am

John, how long a span are you talking about for the new ceiling joists? 2x4's won't span a very long gap and still support themselves as well as a couple layers of gyp board, so you may run into a problem with even LESS headroom than you thought -

Can you detail your roof framing exactly, including center to center distances, size of framing pieces, length that's unsupported (span), and any other details you might think of? Then maybe we can figure out a plan that will work for you... Steve

JohnGardner · Post by **JohnGardner** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:42 am

Thanks Guys,

Firstly, I had a remeasure and the room/existing ceiling is actuallycloser to 8foot (2.4m) high, not 7foot. I stuffed up my initial metric to imperial conversion-sorry!!

The current roof trusses are made from 2x4 at 900mm apart. They currently are covered by a 12mm plasterboard which is the existing ceiling

My live room is going to be pretty small as the photo shows.

I have crudly drawen the way I was planning to run the new joists on top of my new live room walls. As you can see they only need to span about 3.0m(10foot) maximum so I was thinking maybe 2x4 would be OK.

It would be really nice if I could just add more plasterboard to the existing ceiling as it would mean I would have more height. but I need the isoloation as it's mainly going to be a drum room. (I was also planning to float the floor!!!)

Would adding two sheets of plasterboard (10mm and 13mm) do the trick? or do I need the insulatiuon as well? How about if I got up in the roof and added the insulation to the existing ceiling?

You help greatly appreciated.

JohnG

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:02 am

First, I'm getting kind of nervous hearing all the "add some layers" talk in this case - are you SURE your trusses are 900 mm (3 feet) apart? If so, and they are really trusses, they may be fine for what they were originally intended - but each layer of gypboard will add approximately 2 pounds per square foot to the weight the trusses will be required to support. If this building was not originally intended for extra ceiling layers, you may be getting into dangerous territory by adding weight it was NOT designed for. It's really hard to say in the case of trusses vs. straight un-supported spans of single boards, because each truss is designed for its application - things like lumber species and quality, spacing of chords, type of tie plates, all add up to the total performance of the truss and can't be predicted without having the original design specs available.

Normal spacing for framing members in most areas is either 16" or 24", sometimes 12" when necessary - spacings of 36" tell me the building was put up on a budget and may not be strong enough for your use without some re-design of the structure, possibly adding more framing between the existing.

Any possibility of posting some actual pictures taken in your attic, so I can see what's been done? That would certainly help here... Steve

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:31 am

Even with 8 feet I don't think you have nearly enough space to float the floor and add a new ceiling. The room might end up very isolated but it will be too small and the acoustics will suffer.

My input is that you will regret the extra expense of following your plan and end up hating the room. I think you can get some good isolation without doing any of that.