Help with Planning & Building of my Recording Studio

[Studio45]

Hi all,

My name is Francis and I'm from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

I'm new to this forum so please bare with me with all the newbie questions.

I build our custom home 5 years ago and had dedicated a room above our garage to build a recording studio into. The room is 26' x 28' and has 12-13' sloped ceilings with a 12/12 pitch (45degrees). I will make another post after this one and attach a few pictures to show the current status of the room.

My goal is to divide the room into 3. 1 x live room, 1 x local booth and 1 x control room.

Since this room is above my garage I'm not worried about the noise transfer going to the room below. You'll see in the pics below that the only thing connecting the studio to the house is the staircase and the two storage areas beside it.

My questions right now are more related to the noise proofing than the acoustics as I first want to make sure that while I'm playing in the studio I'm not bothering the rest of the house.

First thing I'd like to ask you all is since my entire studio is over my garage, do I really need a floating floor? (I'm sorry...I know...I read the README post after I posted lol. Strike 1?)

Regardless I'm planning on building a decent size floating stage (approx. 22' x 7.5') for the live room to put the drums on as well as guitar amps and such but wasn't thinking of floating the entire live room. The main idea is to run all my wiring in the stage to floor pockets. The stage would be sitting on Auralex U-Boat floaters and build with 2x8 studs insulated with R22 6" Roxull leaving 1-2" of air gap and then covered with 1 sheet of 3/4" plywood glued and a 2nd layer of 3/4" plywood sandwiched with Green Glue.

Second, same as above..do I really need to have a floating floor for my control room and vocal booth?

I will be building 2 walls to seperate the control & vocal booth from the live room. Wall facing the live room will be 2x6 insulated with WhisperClips, Resilient Channel and 2 x sheets of 5/8 drywall with glued with Green Glue and sealed with Green Glue. Interior wall facing control room will be 2x4 insulated with 2 x sheets of 5/8 drywall sealed and glued with green glue.

I'm debating using rubber strips to "float" my walls....again being above the garage I'm not sure if it's needed.

This is a very exciting time for me as I've been dreaming of doing this for a very long time.

I'd like to thank you all in advance for your patience, guidance, help and feedback.

Cheers,

Francis

[Studio45]

As mentioned in my first post, I've attached some pics of the room....as you can see not that much has been done. The room was sealed off with Enermax Acoustical panels...VS the typical vapor barrier.

[Soundman2020]

The room was sealed off with Enermax Acoustical panels...VS the typical vapor barrier.

???? Not sure I understand that! The vapor barrier always goes up against the WARMER leaf, never on the colder leaf. You live in Canada. It gets pretty cold there: your exterior wall will be extremely cold. If your vapor barrier is on the outer leaf, which is cold, then condensation will form on it...

Did you have that design checked by an inspector? Is it approved for your location? Does your local building code permit vapor barriers on outside walls?

The stage would be sitting on Auralex U-Boat floaters and build with 2x8 studs insulated with R22 6" Roxull leaving 1-2" of air gap and then covered with 1 sheet of 3/4" plywood glued and a 2nd layer of 3/4" plywood sandwiched with Green Glue. .... Second, same as above..do I really need to have a floating floor for my control room and vocal booth?

You might want to read this: ...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

I will be building 2 walls to seperate the control & vocal booth from the live room. Wall facing the live room will be 2x6 insulated with WhisperClips, Resilient Channel and 2 x sheets of 5/8 drywall with glued with Green Glue and sealed with Green Glue. Interior wall facing control room will be 2x4 insulated with 2 x sheets of 5/8 drywall sealed and glued with green glue.

It sounds like you are not understanding the concept of fully-decoupled 2-leaf MSM construction! Why do you want to decouple the wall, then also use WhisperClips to decouple it again, then also use RC to decouple it yet again??? Also, using RC on clips is not allowed. You use either RC, or you use clips plus hat channel. But you don't need any of those if your wall is already decoupled...

I'm debating using rubber strips to "float" my walls....again being above the garage I'm not sure if it's needed

See above thread on floating floors: The same applies here.


- Stuart -

[Studio45]

Hey thanks for taking the time to reply Soundman! Much appreciated!

To clarify a few things...

The enermax panels installed were indeed installed on the warm side and replaces the conventional plastic vapour barrier. Have a peek at the pictures I posted.

As for the floating stage idea...I read the sticky thread shortly after I posted and I may just pass on the U-Boats since it would likely be a waste of money. I still want to build the drum riser since I want to run all my snake cables under it and have a few stage boxes to keep things clean. I have a bunch of Roxull insulation left over from the house construction so I will likely use it between the joists...im sure that can't be bad??

Lastly for decoupling the walls for the control room and vocal booth...I think I didn't explain myself properly...the wall facing the live room would be insulated 2x6 construction then use clips with hat channel not RC...then 2 layers of 5/8"....inside wall of control room and vocal booth would be 2x4 insulated and have 2 layers of 5/8". Does that make more sense?

Thanks again for taking the time to help out and answering my newbie questions...it is much appreciated.

Cheers!

Francis

[Soundman2020]

The enermax panels installed were indeed installed on the warm side and replaces the conventional plastic vapour barrier.

Ahhh.. OK that's fine then. I though I was seeing the outer-leaf framing in those pics, not the inner-leaf framing. So your plan is just to put drywall directly on the studs and joists that are visible in your pics?

As for the floating stage idea...I read the sticky thread shortly after I posted and I may just pass on the U-Boats since it would likely be a waste of money. I still want to build the drum riser since I want to run all my snake cables under it and have a few stage boxes to keep things clean. I have a bunch of Roxull insulation left over from the house construction so I will likely use it between the joists...im sure that can't be bad??

That's fine too. I thought you were talking about trying to create an actual floating stage. But a Glenn-type drum riser is an excellent option, and does allow you to run your cables underneath, as long as you cut slots in the skirt to allow them through without touching the riser itself.

Lastly for decoupling the walls for the control room and vocal booth...I think I didn't explain myself properly...the wall facing the live room would be insulated 2x6 construction then use clips with hat channel not RC...then 2 layers of 5/8"....inside wall of control room and vocal booth would be 2x4 insulated and have 2 layers of 5/8". Does that make more sense?

Not really! Why do you need the 2x6 for one leaf and 2x4 for the other? There's no need to use 2x6. That would only be needed if you had a really heavy load to support above that wall, but that doesn't seem to be the case: the roof is already fully supported. That's basic just going to be a simple partition, so 2x4 would be fine for that.

It would be good if you do a diagram of your complete design, in SketchUp preferably, so we can see what you are planning. I have a feeling that there's something going on here that might not be right, but it's hard to figure out from just words! Pictures are worth thousands of words...


- Stuart -

[Studio45]

I've installed two layers 1x3" strapping @ 16" OC over the enermax (1 vertically and 1 horizontally) as I will be installing 3/4" wood paneling vertically to cover all of the ceilings.

You are correct...the roof is already fully supported. The reason why I want to build the leaf in a 2x6 is simply because I still have lots of that material laying around from the original house build. (studs and R22 Roxull insulation) I figured it couldn't hurt...and thought it could even potentially add a little better insulation compared to 2x4.

I have a construction plan being done in AutoCAD by my cousin and I should have it this week. I will post it as soon as I get it back from him.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help! I'm very excited to getting everything started.

Francis,

[Studio45]

Hi All!

As promised here's a draft of the floor plan for my studio build. Please note a few things that need to be corrected:

1) The Entrance Partition describes the wall construction starting with 1/2" gypsum but it is 2 layers of 5/8" sandwiched in GG.
2) All partitions show resilient channels whereas it is Hat Channel with GenieClips.
3) Plan indicates the stage as being built with 2x10 studs where is it likely to be 2x6 instead.

Note that this is a draft and am open to suggestions

For the stage, I'm wondering if I need to "float" it or not. The noise isolation is not a really a problem as under the studio is my garage and i don't really care if the noise can be heard in there. The only reason I'm considering the floating option is if it's going to help with the acoustics in any way. I'd like to use the same stage/platform to but the guitar and bass amps onto to help reduce noise transfer through the floor. I'm thinking a floating stage would help with that.

Let me know if something needs to be clarified

Cheers,

Francis,

[Studio45]

Hi all, here's an updated version of my plan that has the corrections mentioned in the original post. I've also included the staircase and two storage areas.

I've received my new ADP MX Air Handler and will be starting the duct work tomorrow night. I'll try and post pictures as progress is made.

Feedback or suggestions are welcomed

Cheers,

Francis

[Studio45]

a few updates...

The rough duct work has been installed and the air-handler is in place. Next will be to frame a few walls to hide the duct work and insulate as best possible. So far I'm thinking of building 2x4 stud wall and fill the cavities with R14 Roxull insulation then cover it with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.

More to come!

[Studio45]

Well it sure has been a while since I have posted any updates and/or progress on this studio build but better late than never I guess.

Main reason why there hasn’t been any progress is just life in general. I wasn’t able to do much progress over the last year but I’m getting back into it now. I’ve done a lot of reading and am getting more and more comfortable with this build but considering the room type I have to work with I do have a few questions. Note I’ve done plenty of research but wasn’t able to find anything specific to what I'm doing.

Now, while I do understand that a studio build above a garage with wooden floor isn’t ideal, the bottom line is that it’s my only option and it’s all I have to work with. From this point on I’m trying my best to do things right. That being said, the design plan I had shown in my previous posts has changed quite a bit. I will try and post an updated one as soon possible but before I do that I’d like to ask a few questions mostly regarding the way to proceed with my ceiling.

Looking at the first few pictures I posted, you’ll see the current state the room is in which is pretty much just sealed from the exterior. I could technically just put drywall over the furring strips you see in the pictures and call it a day. This would give me one big room to use (26’ x 28’) but that’s not what I’m ultimately after.

As per the original plan what I’m hoping to do is frame a few double wall partitions to separate each usable room (Control, Vocal Booth, and Live Room). Framing the wall is the easy part but what I’m unsure of is what do to about the ceilings.

Question #1: If I was to frame the double walls all the way up to the current existing ceiling this wouldn’t give me a true “room within a room” unless I actually framed an independent ceiling for each separate room correct?

Question #2: Is there any way I could use the existing ceiling for each of the separated room? Could I possibly just install RST clips with 2x 5/8” Drywall sandwiched with GG to my existing ceiling to decouple my ceiling within each separate room?

In the end, if framing independent ceilings for each room is the only way to go to make this functional I suppose that’s just what I’ll do but if there are other options I’d love to hear them out.

Again, thanks for any advice/feedback provided.

Frank,

[Soundman2020]

Question #1: If I was to frame the double walls all the way up to the current existing ceiling this wouldn’t give me a true “room within a room” unless I actually framed an independent ceiling for each separate room correct?

Correct.

Question #2: Is there any way I could use the existing ceiling for each of the separated room? Could I possibly just install RST clips with 2x 5/8” Drywall sandwiched with GG to my existing ceiling to decouple my ceiling within each separate room?

That is possible, yes, using clips and hat channel, but then how would you deal with the top edge of your walls? If there's no ceiling framing on the walls to provide structural integreity, then they'll just sort of be out there, flapping in the breeze... You could use sway braces to keep them properly supported and aligned, but that adds extra cost.

- Stuart -

[Studio45]

Wow! You are on point today! haha

First thanks for the really quick reply!!

That is possible, yes, using clips and hat channel, but then how would you deal with the top edge of your walls? If there's no ceiling framing on the walls to provide structural integreity, then they'll just sort of be out there, flapping in the breeze... You could use sway braces to keep them properly supported and aligned, but that adds extra cost.

For the top edge of my walls, I was thinking of using iso-sill a rubber isolation strip along with a iso-washer. Here's a link to the product
http://www.acoustiguard.com/products/so ... ation.html

I've attached a quick drawing of what I was thinking...sorry about the crap quality haha. the picture just shows the top of one wall and how I was thinking of securing it to the ceiling. I'd be using this fastening method at every 16" at the top of the wall to furring strips located at every 16" on my existing ceiling.

I can try and draw a more complete idea if needed...

let me know your thoughts....

Your help is much appreciated Stuart!! Thanks!

[Soundman2020]

For the top edge of my walls, I was thinking of using iso-sill a rubber isolation strip along with a iso-washer. Here's a link to the product

I'm aware of the product, and I do sometimes recommend it for isolating walls, but only when used as it is intended to be used: Under the sole plat, with the weight of the wall resting on it, causing the correct deflection in the resilient compound. I did not see anything on the manufacturer's website suggesting that it can be used in the manner you propose. How would you be able to apply the hundreds of kilograms of force to that, in order to produce the required deflection? Have you contacted the manufacturer to check that their product is approved by building code for the application you propose, and that it will work, acoustically, to isolate the wall top from the outer-leaf framing? If the manufacturer does not market it for that purpose, then it would probably not be a good idea to tempt fate.

- Stuart -

[Studio45]

I'm aware of the product, and I do sometimes recommend it for isolating walls, but only when used as it is intended to be used: Under the sole plat, with the weight of the wall resting on it, causing the correct deflection in the resilient compound. I did not see anything on the manufacturer's website suggesting that it can be used in the manner you propose. How would you be able to apply the hundreds of kilograms of force to that, in order to produce the required deflection? Have you contacted the manufacturer to check that their product is approved by building code for the application you propose, and that it will work, acoustically, to isolate the wall top from the outer-leaf framing? If the manufacturer does not market it for that purpose, then it would probably not be a good idea to tempt fate.

I did contact the manufacturer a while back and they had suggested I use this product for both the top and bottom plates, but fair enough, the way I'm thinking of using this product for the top plate isn't really the true intended use as advertised. I will try and get in touch with them again and see what they have to say about this method.

in terms of the hundreds of kilograms of force..having 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on the left side of my drawing for sure will apply some force...but might not be sufficient. :/

You did mention "sway braces"? Would you have an example of this product? I'd be okay with this extra cost since it's almost a must in my case. I'll start looking online for available products...I'm thinking that the company I deal with for everything else likely has something similar.

Again thanks for your prompt responses!

Cheers,

[Studio45]

Alright! So I have contacted the manufacturer and after explaining to them what I was trying to do, they have advised me to go with this isolation bracket for what I am trying to do. This will be a much better suited product for what I'm trying to do. My previous idea was good but as Stuart mentioned..not ideal. I will be placing an order for RST clips next week and will order these brackets for the two walls I planned on bracing on the existing ceiling.

http://www.acoustiguard.com/products/so ... brace.html