Calver Studio... Build from scratch

[SamCalver]

Hello!
My name is Sam Calver, I'am a singer/songwriter from the UK and I am building a one room studio to mix write and record in.

I will be recording/writing all styles of music from Rock to HipHop to pop and EDM. I won't be recording Live drums.
I don't have exact decibel readings yet unfortunately, but I hope to reduce the sound outside the building to the best possible.
I won't be blasting music all day long, i mix at a fairly low volume so that I can work for longer periods but obviously I like to turn it up every now and then. (Im sorry I'm sure you're reading this like that still leaves us with no indication exactly how loud it will be)

I have researched more in the past few months than I did my whole 5 years at high school and I have to say... I am still struggling!
I had a plan in mind and then have read so many conflicting articles, don't have angles ceilings.... have a rectangle control room.... don't have a rectangle control room.

I have read the rules and I hope I comply with them... Please bare with me I am trying to draw up a sketch on Sketch up but currently looks more like Ketchup! (I have attached pics of the inside) I have just included the room isolation ideas first before the interior acoustic designs.
If I need to purchase a design I totally will, but thought I would let you know where I am at first

So.... The Room!
I have rented an office/building on a business industrial estate...

- It is free standing and 3 meters to the closest neighbour.
- It is two rooms sized 5.5m X 4m X 2.5m separated by an interior stud wall filled with insulation and 1 layer of
plasterboard each side. Connected with a door.
- I can only convert 1 of the rooms.
- The floor is built on a concrete base but not entirely certain of the construction.
- The Ceiling a pitched roof but with a timber framed ceiling put in with insulation and plasterboard.
- The building is a timber framed stud with Wooden weather boarding on the outside and plasterboard on the inside. (With insulation in the cavity)
- Each width has a double glazed door and window leading to the outside.


My Plan...
- To build a room within a room

WALLS
- Attach another layer or plasterboard to the existing outer wall followed by a stud frame containing insulation.
- Then, a 10Inch gap followed by another stud containing 100mm thick insulation
- Then, resilliant bars (unsure if totally necessary) followed by 1 layer of plasterboard, 1 layer of soundblok then finished with 1 layer of plasterboard.

FLOOR (Having read some articles do I even need a floor?!)
- 2X4 rested on rubber Uboats spaced 16"
- cavity filled with 100mm insulation
- then MDF / Chipboard followed by laminate floor
- SoundBlok in between mdf and chipboard??

CEILING
- Build a new stud ceiling suspended on top of the wall studs (all separated with neoprene soundblok)
- Filled with insulation
- finished with 2 layers of plasterboard with sounblok in between

DOOR
- Double door using existing door and new door on internal room frame.
- Standard solid door, with added mdf/ply/soundblok/mdf
- double seal around the edge
- magnetic closing
- Existing door (does that need beefing up too?)

AIRCON
- Need bit of help here...
- Am i best to go direct outside or through the adjoining room?

PROBLEMS
- Will i even be able to stand up in the room after this?? lol
- Will I need to board up the external door and windows?
- How can I do this without creating a 3-Leaf?


Thanks in advance for you're help and time, again I'm a total rookie so please bare with me.

All the best,

Sam

[Soundman2020]

Hi Sam, and Welcome!

(Im sorry I'm sure you're reading this like that still leaves us with no indication exactly how loud it will be)

I have researched more in the past few months than I did my whole 5 years at high school and I have to say... I am still struggling!

Only a couple of months? Well, that would explain it then! I've been at it for years, and I'm still confused!!

I had a plan in mind and then have read so many conflicting articles, don't have angles ceilings.... have a rectangle control room.... don't have a rectangle control room.

It really depends on what you are trying to do. There are valid reasons for those points of view, and valid reasons for the contrary points of view. Studio design is all about trading off on thing for another, because it is impossible to have a studio that is perfect in every way. You have to decide what your priorities are, and make the necessary choices. Your priorities might be different from someone else's priorities.

- The floor is built on a concrete base but not entirely certain of the construction.

I understand that to mean that there is concrete down there somewhere, but you can't see it because there is some other type of flooring on top? Is that it?

- Each width has a double glazed door and window leading to the outside.

That might be a problem. It might create a 3-leaf situation, but it all depends on what your levels really are...

weather boarding on the outside and plasterboard on the inside ... My Plan...- To build a room within a room

You already have a coupled two-leaf wall. Anything you build inside if that is going to create a 3-leaf system, which might or might not be a problem, depending on your levels, spectrum, and goals. Can you take off the interior drywall from the existing room?

- Attach another layer or plasterboard to the existing outer wall followed by a stud frame containing insulation.

Why do you want that frame there? What purpose does it serve? It is not needed.

- Then, a 10Inch gap followed by another stud containing 100mm thick insulation

It seems you have a need for very high levels of isolation? Or is there another reason for the very large gap?

- Then, resilliant bars (unsure if totally necessary)...

The Resilient Channel is not needed. Your inner-frame is already decoupled, so there is no need to decouple it again.

followed by 1 layer of plasterboard, 1 layer of soundblok then finished with 1 layer of plasterboard.

You really DO need very, very high levels of isolation!

FLOOR (Having read some articles do I even need a floor?!)
- 2X4 rested on rubber Uboats spaced 16"
- cavity filled with 100mm insulation
- then MDF / Chipboard followed by laminate floor
- SoundBlok in between mdf and chipboard??

Here's your answer to that:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/ ... n-mistakes

- Build a new stud ceiling suspended on top of the wall studs

Correct!

(all separated with neoprene soundblok)

Why? And what is "neoprene soundblok"? I know what neoprene is, and I know what soundbloc is, but I don't recall having heard about "neoprene soundblok". Do you have a link to that?

- Filled with insulation

Correct!

- finished with 2 layers of plasterboard with sounblok in between

That's sort of like saying "I'll have two glasses of water, with a glass of water in between"... Soundbloc is a type of plasterboard. It just has a slightly higher density core than ordinary plasterboard.

- Double door using existing door and new door on internal room frame.

Is the existing door solid core, hollow core, or foam core?

- Standard solid door, with added mdf/ply/soundblok/mdf
- double seal around the edge
- magnetic closing

Correct!

- Existing door (does that need beefing up too?)

That depends on how much isolation you need.... (There's a reason why we ask for actual SPL measurements and objective numbers when defining your isolation...)

AIRCON
- Need bit of help here...
- Am i best to go direct outside or through the adjoining room?

I'm not sure about regulations in the UK, but in most places you are not permitted to vent one habitable room into another habitable room. In other words, you cannot take your "fresh" air supply from a room whose are is not "fresh"! Nor can you send your stale air into another room. You better check your local building code to find out what the situation is where you live. But even if it is allowed, I would still not recommend doing that.

- How can I do this without creating a 3-Leaf?

The only way is take off one of the leaves! That normally means removing the drywall from the inside of the room where you will be building your new room, so you get back to having just one leaf. Then you build your new room as one leaf.

- Stuart

[SamCalver]

Hi Stuart thanks for you're reply, Happy New Year!

It really depends on what you are trying to do. There are valid reasons for those points of view, and valid reasons for the contrary points of view. Studio design is all about trading off on thing for another, because it is impossible to have a studio that is perfect in every way. You have to decide what your priorities are, and make the necessary choices. Your priorities might be different from someone else's priorities.

Ok gotcha, well I'm aiming to create a control room that I can produce and write in. Maybe if theres enough room a small vocal booth would be great but not sure if there will be enough space?

I understand that to mean that there is concrete down there somewhere, but you can't see it because there is some other type of flooring on top? Is that it?

Correct. Its carpet at the minute on chipboard flooring, under that I have no idea.

That might be a problem. It might create a 3-leaf situation, but it all depends on what your levels really are...

I've ordered a sound level meter so I will have some readings of how loud I will be, but I will be mixing and writing so it will vary from quiet to loud.

You already have a coupled two-leaf wall. Anything you build inside if that is going to create a 3-leaf system, which might or might not be a problem, depending on your levels, spectrum, and goals. Can you take off the interior drywall from the existing room?

Unfortunately I can't remove the drywall from the existing walls Im a little confused as to how the current wall is already a double leaf though? Its only 1 stud filled with insulation with wood on one side and plasterboard on the other?

Why do you want that frame there? What purpose does it serve? It is not needed.

My thinking for this was so that the internal walls of the cavity between the external wall and my interior room wall would both be made up of insulation? Like the double wall assembly in the picture below? Is there a better solution? Possible the other option attached with the plasterboard on the inside?

It seems you have a need for very high levels of isolation? Or is there another reason for the very large gap?

I was just trying to get the best possible isolation, is this a little over the top then? I need to be as quiet as possible and inaudible from the outside. Is this possible?

You really DO need very, very high levels of isolation!

Sorry this is my bad, when i say soundbloc I mean a vinyl mass loaded barrier. Not the dense plasterboard type, I was going to use that though for all plasterboard?

Why? And what is "neoprene soundblok"? I know what neoprene is, and I know what soundbloc is, but I don't recall having heard about "neoprene soundblok". Do you have a link to that?

Sorry again this is the vinyl mass barrier

That's sort of like saying "I'll have two glasses of water, with a glass of water in between"... Soundbloc is a type of plasterboard. It just has a slightly higher density core than ordinary plasterboard.

So with this i meant sandwiching vinyl mass between two layers of plasterboard.... again, a little OTT?

Is the existing door solid core, hollow core, or foam core?

Its a hollow core

The only way is take off one of the leaves! That normally means removing the drywall from the inside of the room where you will be building your new room, so you get back to having just one leaf. Then you build your new room as one leaf.

If i were to board the window up with mdf, fill the cavity with insulation and acoustically seal, would this be creating another leaf? Or be part of the existing leaf?

also, on the internal walls once the plasterboard has been screwed into position I've noticed people fill the joins and the screw heads with what looks like plaster? Just wondered what this is? I know you use the acoustic sealant around the edges but wasn't sure exactly what had been used? Please see IMG_7704.JPG


Thanks again Stuart, you guys are life savers!

Sam

[SamCalver]

Any ideas guys? Have I forgotten any information regarding the outer construction?
I get the keys this week to the premises so really keen to get the plans sorted
Just need to decide the best option for blocking up the windows and doors and also if there is a way of not making the room 3 leaf? I can't remove the current plasterboard unfortunately

[Soundman2020]

I'm aiming to create a control room that I can produce and write in. Maybe if theres enough room a small vocal booth would be great but not sure if there will be enough space?

Great! So CR is the priority, and booth "if it fits". That's a good goal.

There MIGHT be enough room for that, but it would help to have an accurate diagram of the room, with dimensions, locations of doors, windows, pillars, possible problems, etc. Do that in SketchUp. Then we can take a closer look in 3D.

Correct. Its carpet at the minute on chipboard flooring, under that I have no idea.

When will you be able to tear that up and get a good look? You can probably gain an inch or two of headroom there, once all that is out. Are you CERTAIN there's a slab down there? No other rooms below you? No crawl space, basement, etc?

I've ordered a sound level meter so I will have some readings of how loud I will be, but I will be mixing and writing so it will vary from quiet to loud

OK, but you also need to go the other way: How loud is it around you, outside? Ambient noise can be an issue too. Eg, roads, railway, aircraft flying overhear, loud industry close by, thunder, rain, wind, sirens, loud neighbors, dogs, lawnmowers, etc... You need to measure outside too, at several times of the day and night, to get an idea of what you will be dealing with in terms of keeping the outside noise from getting in.

Im a little confused as to how the current wall is already a double leaf though? Its only 1 stud filled with insulation with wood on one side and plasterboard on the other?

I think you answered your own question! "wood on one side" (that's your first leaf), "plasterboard on the other" (that's your second leaf) "only 1 stud" (that's why it is a "coupled two-leaf system").

That will act as a single-leaf for some frequencies, but a two-leaf for others. So adding another leaf next to it will create a 3-leaf system.

My thinking for this was so that the internal walls of the cavity between the external wall and my interior room wall would both be made up of insulation?

Yes, but you don't need to build an entire frame for that: just use semi-rigid insulation, and impaling clips:

impaling-clips-2.jpg

impaling-clip-4.jpg

Even nails poking out the "wrong" way through a couple of furring strip on the wall, would do the job (albeit dangerously!).

I was just trying to get the best possible isolation, is this a little over the top then? I need to be as quiet as possible and inaudible from the outside. Is this possible?

The point here is that you need to measure your levels with the meter! Then based on that, you need to determine the number one most important absolutely critical most basic number for your entire studio: "How many decibels of isolation do I need?": Once you have that number settled, then everything else flows into place. With that, you'll be able to decide on the mate rails you need, the techniques you need, the budget you need, the thickness of the walls, etc. Without knowing that number, it is all just guess work, which isn't a good way of building anything.

Sorry this is my bad, when i say soundbloc I mean a vinyl mass loaded barrier. Not the dense plasterboard type, I was going to use that though for all plasterboard?

That sutff is commonly known as "mass loaded vinyl" or just plan MLV. It does have its uses in acoustics, but it is really, REALLY expensive! And sound waves can't read the price tag, so they won't be any more impressed by that than the would be by any other mass. What gets their attention, is mass. Plain and simple. The equations for isolation only have a place for you to insert the number of kilograms per square meter, no place at all for the price tag, or what the mass is made of. As far as sound waves are concerned, 50 kg/m2 of concrete works exactly the same as 50kg/m2 of titanium, or 50kg/m2 of plywood. Those would all be different thickness, yes, but the isolation would still be same.

In other words: You do not need MLV in your walls. Calculate how much mass you need to get the isolation you want, then buy the least expensive material that will get the job done.

So with this i meant sandwiching vinyl mass between two layers of plasterboard.... again, a little OTT?

There's no doubt that it will work, yes! MLV is heavy. Very heavy. But a sheet of lead 1/16" thick would also do the same, at about thre times the price. And so would a sheet of MDF, at about one third the price...

Its a hollow core

No use: That's a resonant drum, waiting to bite you with unknown damage to your isolation, and unknown transmission of sound in both directions at certain frequencies... Change it for a solid core.

If i were to board the window up with mdf, fill the cavity with insulation and acoustically seal, would this be creating another leaf? Or be part of the existing leaf?

That would be another leaf.

Any time you have a massive surface separated from another massive surface by an air gap, you have a leaf. If there is insulation in the air gap, then you have a damped resonant system, but it is still a resonant system. Also, the cavity does not have to be sealed in order for the leaf to act as a leaf: it is more efficient like that, yes, but just placing a large sheet of anything suitable in clos proximity to another large sheet, creates a resonant system.

However, that actually is the correct way to plug your window! Seal up the glass and frame to make it all air-tight, put some desiccant inside to prevent condensation on the glass from trapped moisture, fill the cavity with suitable insulation, then add a couple of layers of MDF, OSB, drywall, plywood, or whatever, until you get to the correct mass.

on the internal walls once the plasterboard has been screwed into position I've noticed people fill the joins and the screw heads with what looks like plaster?

Commonly referred to as "mud and tape". The tape is often an open weave synthetic tape, or something that looks like paper packing tape, but special meant for this application. The "mud" is a special joint compound, also meant for this purpose. That does help to complete the surface density shell around the room, and also to seal all possible air gaps and cracks. Another way of doing it is with backer rod and acoustic caulk. As long as you get perfect hermetic seals all around, and maintain the same surface density all around, that's the goals. Both of those are critical. A tiny crack where air can get through will trash your isolation. A weal part in the wall where the density is much lower than the rest of the room will also trash your isolation.

I get the keys this week to the premises so really keen to get the plans sorted

Great! Take more photos, take accurate measurements, and do your SketchUp model.

and also if there is a way of not making the room 3 leaf? I can't remove the current plasterboard unfortunately

It looks like you are stuck with that, unfortunately, but all is not lost: you can compensate for that, with more mass on the "middle" leaf, and larger air gaps.


- Stuart -

[SamCalver]

Hi Stuart hope you're well mate?
Ok so I have finally finished a 3D model on Sketch up! Its taken a while but I'm pretty certain everything is to scale... https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fz2418ijl0sh ... 1.skp?dl=0

I have some good news! I managed to pull some of the carpet back today and it turns out the guy was wrong, there is no chipboard its a solid concrete base! Wahoo! Not sure how deep it is exactly though.

OK, but you also need to go the other way: How loud is it around you, outside? Ambient noise can be an issue too. Eg, roads, railway, aircraft flying overhear, loud industry close by, thunder, rain, wind, sirens, loud neighbors, dogs, lawnmowers, etc... You need to measure outside too, at several times of the day and night, to get an idea of what you will be dealing with in terms of keeping the outside noise from getting in.

Ok so I have taken some readings, thankfully the office units are in the countryside so there is no loud industry or roads. There are however other units close by, an accounting company and a few other businesses. I will definitely be the loudest so i really need to make sure I am inaudible from the outside.

Music Off inside 30.7db
Music off outside 34db
Inside the room : 83.60db
Outside facing speakers : 60.80db
Outside to the left of the studio : 47db
Outside behind the speaker : 52.30 db

I think you answered your own question! "wood on one side" (that's your first leaf), "plasterboard on the other" (that's your second leaf) "only 1 stud" (that's why it is a "coupled two-leaf system").

That will act as a single-leaf for some frequencies, but a two-leaf for others. So adding another leaf next to it will create a 3-leaf system.

Right ok I got it

The point here is that you need to measure your levels with the meter! Then based on that, you need to determine the number one most important absolutely critical most basic number for your entire studio: "How many decibels of isolation do I need?": Once you have that number settled, then everything else flows into place. With that, you'll be able to decide on the mate rails you need, the techniques you need, the budget you need, the thickness of the walls, etc. Without knowing that number, it is all just guess work, which isn't a good way of building anything.

I don't really have an exact number, I just need to be totally un audible otherwise ill get evicted :/ The guy nearly had a heart attack when i said I was opening a studio
I guess looking at the readings I would say I need i need a 25db reduction outside at the loudest point?

That sutff is commonly known as "mass loaded vinyl" or just plan MLV. It does have its uses in acoustics, but it is really, REALLY expensive! And sound waves can't read the price tag, so they won't be any more impressed by that than the would be by any other mass. What gets their attention, is mass. Plain and simple. The equations for isolation only have a place for you to insert the number of kilograms per square meter, no place at all for the price tag, or what the mass is made of. As far as sound waves are concerned, 50 kg/m2 of concrete works exactly the same as 50kg/m2 of titanium, or 50kg/m2 of plywood. Those would all be different thickness, yes, but the isolation would still be same.

In other words: You do not need MLV in your walls. Calculate how much mass you need to get the isolation you want, then buy the least expensive material that will get the job done.

Ok so hopefully from my readings and my design we will be able to see wether mdf layer is needed in the walls too? Or maybe the 2 layers of plasterboard is enough?

Commonly referred to as "mud and tape". The tape is often an open weave synthetic tape, or something that looks like paper packing tape, but special meant for this application. The "mud" is a special joint compound, also meant for this purpose. That does help to complete the surface density shell around the room, and also to seal all possible air gaps and cracks. Another way of doing it is with backer rod and acoustic caulk. As long as you get perfect hermetic seals all around, and maintain the same surface density all around, that's the goals. Both of those are critical. A tiny crack where air can get through will trash your isolation. A weal part in the wall where the density is much lower than the rest of the room will also trash your isolation.

Ah ok gotcha! Thanks!

Great! Take more photos, take accurate measurements, and do your SketchUp model.

Unfortunately I never managed to take more photos, but I've finally done my sketch up so please pull it apart for me

I have made the inner walls "Inside-out walls" to save space, I was planning on doing the same with the ceiling as its quite low and I didn't think I would have enough room for a ceiling cloud... What do you think?

Thanks again Stuart,

Sam

[SamCalver]

Got the keys to the place last week guys, itching to get started on the build any thoughts on this sketch?

All the best,
Sam

[Soundman2020]

Ok so I have finally finished a 3D model on Sketch up! Its taken a while but I'm pretty certain everything is to scale...

Great! So this is only going to be a control room? No iso booth, live room, or anything else?

Also, when you create an object in SketchUp, do make sure to select all that individual parts that make it up then do "Make component", or else you end up with a mass of interconnected faces and edges that you can't do much with. That's what you have for your outer leaf (although most of the internals seem to be OK).

I have some good news! I managed to pull some of the carpet back today and it turns out the guy was wrong, there is no chipboard its a solid concrete base!

That is good news. Now you know that the carpet can go and you'll be able to either use just the bare concrete, or put down something decent, such as laminate flooring.

Ok so I have taken some readings...

Excellent! So it seems you are getting roughly 30 to 35 dB of isolation from your existing walls, which is typical for normal house construction. Did you do all those measurements with "C" weighting and "slow" response?

I don't really have an exact number, I just need to be totally un audible otherwise ill get evicted :/

"Totally inaudible" is a pretty steep goal!

I guess looking at the readings I would say I need i need a 25db reduction outside at the loudest point?

That would be an ADDITIONAL 25 dB, above and beyond what you already have. So around 60 dB isolation is what you'll be shooting for? That's not "totally inaudible", but it is very decent isolation, and is probably do-able. 50-something is about what most people can achieve with a DIY project studio. 60 is on the cards, but a bit harder to do. Hopefully your budget is well padded...

Ok so hopefully from my readings and my design we will be able to see wether mdf layer is needed in the walls too? Or maybe the 2 layers of plasterboard is enough?

For 60 dB of isolation, I would go with a base layer of 3/4" plywood, MDF or OSB, then two layers of drywall with Green Glue in between, plus beefing up the existing walls, and leaving a large air gap between those and the new inner-leaf. Theoretically, that will get you where you want to go. However, to get a high level like you want, it isn't just about building great walls with lots of mass and a big air gap: in addition to that, it is also about very, very careful attention to detail in sealing absolutely everything totally air-tight, building with precision, tight tolerances, careful workmanship, etc. Your biggest issues will ge your doors and windows, and your HVAC and electrical systems. Doors have to open and close, so maintaining high quality hermetic seals and good mass consistency is critical here: You will need three independent layers of seal, all around the edges of the door (top, sides and bottom): one seal alone is not going to cut it, and neither is two. You will need heavy duty hinges, and your doors will have to be massive (heavy). Your HVAC is going to be another critical area: Ventilation basically implies that you have to chop huge holes in your perfect isolation walls, to get the air in and out, and that obviously trashes your isolation. The solution is to build silencer boxes at the penetration points, to allow the air to flow but block the sound. You will need to take very great care in designing and building your silencer boxes. They will be big, and heavy...

I have made the inner walls "Inside-out walls" to save space, I was planning on doing the same with the ceiling as its quite low and I didn't think I would have enough room for a ceiling cloud... What do you think?

I think I don't see any inner-leaf ceiling in your model!!! But yes, if your existing ceiling is low, then inside-out is usually a good plan to deal with that.

I noticed that your model is basically John's sample model from many years ago, modified to fit the space. That's OK, but there are ways you can improve on that in your space, and you also need to add a lot more detail to the model! John did not include any framing at all in his model, for example...

So you will need to add all of that, and in your SketchUp model you will need to actually assign the objects you have created to the layers you created! It doesn't happen automatically, which is why nothing happens when you turn on and off "furniture" "floor" "insulation" etc...

My suggestion would be to spend some time cleaning up the model like that, add all of the missing parts (such as the HVAC system for example!), then add the details. Those are the areas that take the longest when designing a studio. I sometimes spend a week just on the HVAC, and a day or two getting the doors right. It takes time to make sure that everything is in place and working correctly! You are obviously aiming for an RFZ style design here, but did you ray-trace to make sure you actually achiever that?

You are on the right track, but still have a long way to go until you can start building.

itching to get started on the build any thoughts on this sketch?

With a bit of luck, I figure you could be ready to start in about a month. That's based on looking at where you are in the model right now, and knowing where you need to be.


- Stuart -

[Soundman2020]

Hey Sam, it's been a bit more than a month: Just wondering how it's going with your place?

- Stuart -