Hello there from Toronto, Canada.
I just signed a lease on 1000 sf in a commercial warehouse. I have outgrown my basement in both gear and projects. This is not to be a commercial space so much as a place for me to continue all my projects to a better standard. This will be my first foray into real construction. I have a contractor sharing the space with me, so labour is free but, I am getting resistance on big jobs unless there are very sound reasons behind them.
Toronto is both extremely cold in the winter & very hot and humid in the summer. I would say -10 in the winter would be average to + 30 average in the summer. So, both Heat & A/C will be required year round.
The space I just acquired is essentially a rectangle from which I hope to carve a control room, iso booth and live room. The problem at the moment is how to negotiate the HVAC. I have include a sketch up doc of how I best see using the space. I have not included the A/C as it's not an issue yet.
Currently there are no walls and the furnace is in one corner with the heating duct running right down the middle of the room for the entire length of the room. The duct is about 3' diameter and is not insulated or treated in anyway. It is suspended about 4 feet down from the ceiling which is about 15' high.
I wanted to approach the costs of the space in phases and phase one is framing/insulation/drywall/plaster & painting.
I am trying to figure out the best way to deal with the open heating duct without getting into permits & huge expenses as it's xmas and money is tight....rent is also being paid though!
My questions is this: let's imagine for a second that the room is rectangular. It won't be in the end but for a linear image let's say it's rectangular. If the furnace is in one corner with the heating duct running the entire length of the rectangle are there any advantages of moving it to one side of the room instead of leaving it in the middle?
I am trying above all to retain as much ceiling height as I can, so putting in a ceiling beneath the duct isn't on the table. Building a box with treatment, putting in duct isolation boxes is, but is moving it away from the center of the room important? In my sketch I have moved it but, I wonder now how necessary.
Thanks,
C
HVAC QUERY
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Soundman2020
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Re: HVAC QUERY
Hi there "pseudio". Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! 
That said, you seem to be approaching this project entirely backwards! With a thousand square feet, overall ceiling height of 15 feet, and a small section where the HVAC duct is at 8 feet, I just do not see any problem at all. Simply design the facility such that the HVAC duct does not interfere with the rooms! If you can move it and you need to, then do so: the cost of doing that will be minuscule, compared to the cost of building a thousand square foot studio with three rooms, so it simply is not an issue. If you can't move it, for whatever reason, then design around it.
"Air Conditioning" is what the last two letters of "HVAC" stand for: "Heating - Ventilation - Air Conditioning". They are not separate things: they are all one system, made up of several parts. If you have not designed the "AC" part of your "HVAC" system, then you don't have an HVAC system!
If budget is tight, it might be better to build just one room initially (along with the outer-leaf, of course: that goes without saying), then build the other rooms later, as more funds become available.
And which room are we talking about? You mentioned three of them; one control room, one iso booth, and one live room. So which of those three do you want us to image as a rectangle?
Also why will it not be a rectangle in the end? You do know that it is a myth that rooms cannot be rectangular, right? That one continues to circulate on the internet endlessly, but it is absolutely not true. For some reason, people seem to still be buying into the garbage that you have to, must, always, every time, splay the walls of a rooms to make it "good". Wrong. A room CAN be a rectangle if you want it to be. Or it can be another shape if you prefer. The shape should be chosen in the design process, based on the goals and initial parameters. For example, if the control room is going to be based on the RFZ principle, or a related one such as NER, MR, CID, etc., then it won't be a rectangle on the inside, but it might still be on the outside. And the Live Room and Iso Booth can be any shape that makes sense acoustically and also practically. About the only shapes that you never want to use are one where all three dimensions are the same (a perfect cube), or one where any two dimensions are equal or multiples of each other. Or one that has a curved concave wall. Apart from that, there really aren't any shapes that are necessarily always bad, or necessarily always perfect. There are only shapes, sizes and dimensions that are less "good" or more "good". And it turns out that a simple rectangle where the lengths of the sides are not mathematically related, is a very good shape!
And of course, that's leaving aside the question of why it is not possible to build any ceilings under the duct! You WILL have to do that at some point... There's no question about that...
In any event, all in all I'd suggest that you should take a big step back here, and stop trying to deal with the details before you even start designing. The HVAC details will fall into place at the usual point in the design process. That's when you will decide if the duct can stay where it is right now, or if it needs to be moved. There's no point in doing things before the time comes: very often in the studio design process, you end up moving things for a reason, then move them back for a different reason, then move them to another place for yet another reason... it's a process of juggling dozens of different parameters, and trying to come up with the optimum relationship, give then restraints. Studio design is all about compromise: deciding which things are more important, and therefore get priority, which are less important but still necessary, and which are "nice to have but it won't kill me if I can't". That's part of why it takes so long. As you work through it, you invariably come across things that require you to re-do things you already completed. Which is why it is so desperately important to do it all in the digital model first, to make sure it is right! It's a lot cheaper to move a digital wall over a few inches, than it is to move a real one!
- Stuart -
That said, you seem to be approaching this project entirely backwards! With a thousand square feet, overall ceiling height of 15 feet, and a small section where the HVAC duct is at 8 feet, I just do not see any problem at all. Simply design the facility such that the HVAC duct does not interfere with the rooms! If you can move it and you need to, then do so: the cost of doing that will be minuscule, compared to the cost of building a thousand square foot studio with three rooms, so it simply is not an issue. If you can't move it, for whatever reason, then design around it.
I'm not sure that I understand: "HVAC" and "A/C" are the exact same thing! How can you be showing the HVAC system without showing the Air Conditioning system? That's like saying "Here's a drawing og my car, but I didn't show the vehicle in it"...The problem at the moment is how to negotiate the HVAC. ... I have not included the A/C as it's not an issue yet.
"Air Conditioning" is what the last two letters of "HVAC" stand for: "Heating - Ventilation - Air Conditioning". They are not separate things: they are all one system, made up of several parts. If you have not designed the "AC" part of your "HVAC" system, then you don't have an HVAC system!
If the duct absolutely cannot be moved, then I would consider arranging the facility with a central passage down the middle under the duct, and the rooms off to either side. Either that, or arrange the rooms such that the ones that can be built with all or part of the inner-leaf ceiling lower than 10 feet, are under the duct. There are many ways of skinning a cat, as the saying goes. That's what studio designers are for: to look at all the issues, goals, parameters, limitations, etc. and come up with the best solution. These are the types of situation we run into all the time.... the heating duct running right down the middle of the room for the entire length of the room. The duct is about 3' diameter and is not insulated or treated in anyway. It is suspended about 4 feet down from the ceiling which is about 15' high.
That would be a mistake. Phase one should be design, which will likely take about a year if you want to do it yourself, or a couple of months if you want to hire a designer to do it for you. Once the design is finished, in full details, then you can start building. it might also be possible to start with some of the building before that, while the design process continues. Phase one in any studio build is design. And it is far, far more complex than most first-time studio builders imagine. Take a look at a few of the successful build threads here on the forum, and you will see that this is the way it always turns out, inevitably. Many, many people come here thinking they can design the place in a week, and start building by next Sunday. Those who are smart very soon realize that they were very badly wrong about that. Those who don't realize it, and insist on building next Sunday, either never complete the place, or end up with a truly lousy studio. The majority figure it out fast, and then hunker down to learn all about the basics of acoustics (that takes about three to five months, realistically), the basics of studio construction, which is very different from normal house, office, or shop construction (and takes another two or three months to learn), then they get into the actual design process itself, which takes about two to three months (and double that for a first-time designer). Many forum members do go through that entire process, and end up building great studios. Some realize that the design task is too big for them, or it will take them too long to learn, and decide to hire a studio designer to do it for them. And some just give up, once they realize how much effort (and cost) is involved in designing and building a studio.I wanted to approach the costs of the space in phases and phase one is framing/insulation/drywall/plaster & painting.
Permits are a fact of life. In the majority of places, you cannot build anything without some type of permit. The fact that rent is being paid is irrelevant: Moving the ducts (if it turns out to be necessary) would only take a couple of days, if done by a competent HVAC contractor. And rent is going to be paid for many, many months before you can have a fully operational studio.I am trying to figure out the best way to deal with the open heating duct without getting into permits & huge expenses as it's xmas and money is tight....rent is also being paid though!
If budget is tight, it might be better to build just one room initially (along with the outer-leaf, of course: that goes without saying), then build the other rooms later, as more funds become available.
Then what's the point of imaging it like that?My questions is this: let's imagine for a second that the room is rectangular. It won't be in the end
And which room are we talking about? You mentioned three of them; one control room, one iso booth, and one live room. So which of those three do you want us to image as a rectangle? Also why will it not be a rectangle in the end? You do know that it is a myth that rooms cannot be rectangular, right? That one continues to circulate on the internet endlessly, but it is absolutely not true. For some reason, people seem to still be buying into the garbage that you have to, must, always, every time, splay the walls of a rooms to make it "good". Wrong. A room CAN be a rectangle if you want it to be. Or it can be another shape if you prefer. The shape should be chosen in the design process, based on the goals and initial parameters. For example, if the control room is going to be based on the RFZ principle, or a related one such as NER, MR, CID, etc., then it won't be a rectangle on the inside, but it might still be on the outside. And the Live Room and Iso Booth can be any shape that makes sense acoustically and also practically. About the only shapes that you never want to use are one where all three dimensions are the same (a perfect cube), or one where any two dimensions are equal or multiples of each other. Or one that has a curved concave wall. Apart from that, there really aren't any shapes that are necessarily always bad, or necessarily always perfect. There are only shapes, sizes and dimensions that are less "good" or more "good". And it turns out that a simple rectangle where the lengths of the sides are not mathematically related, is a very good shape!
Where will the AHU be? Will you also be using an HRV/ERV? What is the maximum static pressure that the fans can handle? Where will the silencer boxes be? Would moving the duct in crease or decrease the static pressure? Would it then be beyond tha capability of the ducts to handle? What flow rate do you need? What flow velocity are you shooting for? What is the maximum sensible heat load and latent heat load that you need to handle in summer? Etc. Etc. There are about a million such questions that you need to know the answers to, before you can decide if it makes sense to move the duct or not. There are many, many factors that you need to consider, and all of those will come up in the design phase, so it isn't necessary to be worrying about those now. First you should be worrying about defining the purpose of each room, the amount of isolation that you need (in decibels), construction techniques, shapes, sizes, sight-lines, access paths, and such-like, in order to get the basic concept for your studio to a point where you actually can design something.If the furnace is in one corner with the heating duct running the entire length of the rectangle are there any advantages of moving it to one side of the room instead of leaving it in the middle?
If you cannot build any ceilings under the duct, then you only have two options: design the facility such that only non-isolated areas are under the duct (eg, passage), or move the duct to some place that does not matter. But you won't be able to take that decision until you know what the rooms are going to look like, where they will be, how they are going to interact, etc.I am trying above all to retain as much ceiling height as I can, so putting in a ceiling beneath the duct isn't on the table.
And of course, that's leaving aside the question of why it is not possible to build any ceilings under the duct! You WILL have to do that at some point... There's no question about that...
But your SketchUp does not appear to be to scale, since it shows the ceiling at 12' (while you said it was 15'), and it also shows some very strangely positioned triangular shaped "walls": Are those walls already there? Of so, they will have to come out, as they make no sense at all for a studio. You might be able to re-use the materials, especially the sliding glass doors if they are acoustically rated. Your SketchUp file also shows an extra room at the far end of the facility, but you didn't mention that: what is that one for?In my sketch I have moved it
In any event, all in all I'd suggest that you should take a big step back here, and stop trying to deal with the details before you even start designing. The HVAC details will fall into place at the usual point in the design process. That's when you will decide if the duct can stay where it is right now, or if it needs to be moved. There's no point in doing things before the time comes: very often in the studio design process, you end up moving things for a reason, then move them back for a different reason, then move them to another place for yet another reason... it's a process of juggling dozens of different parameters, and trying to come up with the optimum relationship, give then restraints. Studio design is all about compromise: deciding which things are more important, and therefore get priority, which are less important but still necessary, and which are "nice to have but it won't kill me if I can't". That's part of why it takes so long. As you work through it, you invariably come across things that require you to re-do things you already completed. Which is why it is so desperately important to do it all in the digital model first, to make sure it is right! It's a lot cheaper to move a digital wall over a few inches, than it is to move a real one!
- Stuart -