Need some help with Control Room Treatment

How to use REW, What is a Bass Trap, a diffuser, the speed of sound, etc.

Moderators: Aaronw, sharward

mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

How you fellas doing..
Been lurking around the forum for some time now, and I have to say thanks for all the info that has helped me and some other dudes I know in building our studios..

I have a few questions concerning treatment for our control room..

Some room info..
Our studio is locating in the second floor on an office/store building in N. Miami Beach, FL. The units around us are just offices, and a cafeteria right down stairs. The unit itself is a store front with big glass windows and glass front door. The way the room will be set up is the vocal booth/live room with be all the way at the front with double wall construction for noise isolation if needed (local traffic very minor, barely non, just visitors to the area and a few homes around us like a block away or so)

The studio it self will have the vocal booth at the front of the unit, the windows will be completely covered by the walls that are/have been built and the control room will follow after.

The control room dimensions are 13' 4" LENGTH, 11' 2" WIDTH, 10' HEIGHT..

The actual construction is based on some of the posts/tips seen here.
-2x4 wall studs filled with a mix of rockwool and rigid, dense pink insulation (R-30)
-2x6 ceiling studs with rockwool and pink insulation
-2 layers of drywall, 3/4 & 5/8's all around the room including ceiling
-Backer rod and mud used to seal all the edges around the room
-Flooring will be all wood floor on concrete (floor is not floated, isolation in the unit is good, we are on the 2nd floor in the building, offices on either side of our unit that close earlier than when we open, as well as unit construction is all cement brick construction which before construction we tested playing music and we were running at really low levels before construction.)

A/C unit is behind the building in the 1st floor so no rumble from a/c unit
Very to little local traffic, specially at night.
No noisy neighbors at night.

Now the sizes of the rooms came from a previous owner that was building there previously, and the framing was already up, so we thought that the room sizes were perfect, so we built from that keeping the 10' high ceilings and the actual control room dimensions.

Based on some info regarding the modes and the size of the room, this is what I found using Bob Golds Room mode calculator..

Room Dimensions: Length=13.33 ft, Width=11.17 ft, Height=10 ft
Room Ratio: 1 : 1.11 : 1.33
R. Walker BBC 1996:
- 1.1w / h < l / h < ((4.5w / h) - 4): Fail
- l < 3h & w < 3h: Pass
- no integer multiple within 5%: Pass
Nearest Known Ratio:
- "2) L. W. Sepmeyer: 1965" 1 : 1.14 : 1.39
RT60 (IEC/AEC N 12-A standard): 214 ms
- ±50ms from 200Hz to 3.5kHz = 164 to 264ms
- ±100ms above 3.5kHz = 114 to 314ms
- <+300ms at 63hz = 514ms
- 300<RT60<600ms
RT60 (ITU/EBU Control Room Recommended): 187 ms
- ±50ms from 200Hz to 4kHz = 137 to 237ms
- <+300ms at 63hz = 487ms
- 200<RT60<400ms
Absorbtion to achieve ITU RT60: 389 sabins
Volume: 1488 ft^3
Surface Area Total: 784 ft^2
Surface Area Floor: 148 ft^2
Surface Area Ceiling+Floor: 296 ft^2
Surface Area Front Wall: 111 ft^2
Surface Area Front and Rear Wall: 222 ft^2
Surface Area Left Wall: 133 ft^2
Surface Area Left and Right Wall: 266 ft^2
Surface Area 4 Walls: 488 ft^2
Surface Area 4 Walls + floor: 636 ft^2
(sabins - front wall - carpet) / Left+Right+Rear wall: 34 %
(sabins - front wall) / Left+Right+Rear wall: 73 %
Schroeder Fc: 126hz
Frequency Regions:
- No modal boost: 1hz to 42hz
- Room Modes dominate: 42hz to 126hz
- Diffraction and Diffusion dominate: 126hz to 504hz
- Specular reflections and ray accoustics prevail: 504hz to 20000hz
Count (42.3-224hz) : Axials=12, Tangentials=47, Obliques=60
Count (42.3-100hz) : Axials=4, Tangentials=4, Obliques=1
Critical Distance (direct = reverberant field): 12.80ft


I'm :shock: after reading this cause this is confusing to me.. I know that in the control room, first reflections needed to be treated first as side walls and cloud around and above mixing position, but the confusion comes for the front and rear walls of the control room.

Our window is not exactly in the middle of the room per say, based that it was placed in the middle of the booth/live room (its smaller in width) so the front corners aren't the same size.

What advise do you guys give for such a room like this. I have attached a simple (really simple) floor plan design of the control room showing the location of the window between both rooms as well as the door and what our first reflection treatment will look like..

Also what other types of treatment such as bass traps in the corners or diffusion is needed in this type of room. I know diffusion is based on room size, so is recommended for this type of room and what do you guys recommend for the corners around the window and bass traps for the back room..

I've attached the drawings, sketchup file and a few pictures of the location at the moment..

Thanks guys for all your tips and advice, I appreciate them..
mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

LOL
Having some issues loading the studio pictures to the page, what do you guys recommend to load them, they are apparently too big.. Thanks once again..
Soundman2020
Site Admin
Posts: 11938
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Santiago, Chile
Contact:

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by Soundman2020 »

Hi there "mixed_by_k_engineer", and welcome to the forum! :)

It seems like you are OK on isolation, so this is mostly just issues with treatment?

How much of this is already built, and how much still to go? Photos of the current situation would be useful to understand better where you are right now. A SketchUp model of the way you plan the studio will be when finished, would also be useful. It's hard to get the full idea of what you guys are doing just from text descriptions and basic sketches.
-2x6 ceiling studs with rockwool and pink insulation
-2 layers of drywall, 3/4 & 5/8's all around the room including ceiling
Did you check that 2x6 joists can safely span those distances with that dead load, and good deflection? I have my doubts... :)
floor is not floated,
Excellent!
A/C unit is behind the building in the 1st floor so no rumble from a/c unit
Good, but what are your HVAC plans for the studio?
this is what I found using Bob Golds Room mode calculator..
Looks pretty good: the modal spread is nice, and the Bonello graph is smooth. Should be good!
but the confusion comes for the front and rear walls of the control room. ... Our window is not exactly in the middle of the room
Just checking here: the booth is at the FRONT of the room, correct?

How do you plan to set up your speakers? That's key to how you treat the front of the room.

And there is one key point here: room symmetry up front is critical. The room should be as symmetrical as you can possibly get it, at least as far back as the mix position.
Also what other types of treatment such as bass traps in the corners or diffusion is needed in this type of room.
It's a small room, so it will need lots of bass trapping. I would suggest the common approach used here a lot: superchunks in the rear corners, and maybe the front corners too, depending on design concept. I would not use diffusers in there, or at least not numeric sequence based diffusers (skylines, RPG, PRD, etc.), as the room is too small for that. You can't get enough distance between the diffusers and your ears for the lobing artifacts to smooth over. Also, as shown by Bob Gold's calculator, you need around 400 sqaure feet of perfect absorption in that room to get it within spec, and you only have 784 square feet of total wall, floor and ceiling surface area, so a large portion if your walls is going to be taken up by absorption, leaving little space for diffusers.
Having some issues loading the studio pictures to the page, what do you guys recommend to load them, they are apparently too big..
Re-size them to about 700 pixels wide, and you should be able to upload them easily. For really big non-image files, such as large SketchUp models, try using a file-sharing service such as Dropbox, then post the link here, so we can download them.

- Stuart -
mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

Thanks Soundman for the quick response.. Here's the skp file download link..
Will get back to you tomorrow on your questions and the actual studio pics..

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ebh0w8
mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

Soundman once again thanks for the fast response.. haven't had too much time off today to get to them questions but here we go lol..

-Did you check that 2x6 joists can safely span those distances with that dead load, and good deflection? I have my doubts...

Most of the room was already built as of framing and insulation when we got the place, so with the ceilling there is a beam running across front to back of the room and the 2x6's spanned to the sides of the room, also was checked code wise by the building management who knew that construction was going on..

-Good, but what are your HVAC plans for the studio?

The ducts have already already been run and silencers have been installed where the outlets are in the rooms.. the construction team when running the ducts used the hardware (dont know the right terms) with rubber grommets to isolate from any caused vibrations or unwanted noise from the ducts in case..

-Just checking here: the booth is at the FRONT of the room, correct?

-How do you plan to set up your speakers? That's key to how you treat the front of the room.


The booth is right in front.. and the speakers will be set right in front, center of the room. I know the window is off to the side a bit but the setup will be placed front middle of the room between the planned early reflection points..

Pics will be loaded up tonite.. thanks for all the advice and sorry for the long response time..
mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

And here are the pics.. finally....

VOCAL BOOTH FRONT LEFT CORNER (SORRY FOR THE SIDEWAYS PIC)
Image

BOOTH CLOUD/LIGHTING
Image

BOOTH FRONT FACING CONTROL ROOM
Image

VOCAL FRONT TO CONTROL ROOM (SIDEWAYS)
Image

VOCAL BOOTH REAR (ENTRANCE TO LOCAL)
Image

CONTROL ROOM FRONT WALL FACING BOOTH (NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE OF THE CORNER WALL SIZES)
Image

FULL FRONT OF CONTROL ROOM
Image

LEFT REAR CONTROL ROOM CORNER
Image

RIGHT REAR CONTROL ROOM CORNER
Image
mixed_by_k_engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by mixed_by_k_engineer »

Bump! :?
Still doing some research on them basstraps and trying to figure out what to do for the front end of the room around the window because of the offset of the window..
Will update if possible, hopeing for some help..
Thanks guys in advance..
Soundman2020
Site Admin
Posts: 11938
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Santiago, Chile
Contact:

Re: Need some help with Control Room Treatment

Post by Soundman2020 »

Most of the room was already built as of framing and insulation when we got the place, so with the ceilling there is a beam running across front to back of the room and the 2x6's spanned to the sides of the room, also was checked code wise by the building management who knew that construction was going on..
OK, that makes sense. As long as someone qualified did the math and signed on the dotted line to say that it is OK, then that's good.
The ducts have already already been run and silencers have been installed where the outlets are in the rooms.. the construction team when running the ducts used the hardware (dont know the right terms) with rubber grommets to isolate from any caused vibrations or unwanted noise from the ducts in case..
Good! Sounds like they did it correctly, with isolation mounts.
And here are the pics.. finally....
Looking good! :)

- Stuart -
Post Reply