Treatment For Tracking/Mixing Room

MakoBlink · Post by **MakoBlink** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:08 am

I have a 12x19 room that i record and mix in. What im having trouble deciding on is how i should treat it. I have a few questions

1).I had a friend try the mirror trick for me to see where i should place my panels of 703. It turned out that the monitors only showed up in 1 spot on each side wall. On the ceiling, and the back wall. Is this going to be enough? I thought it would show up more on the side walls.. And does the front wall need to be treated?

2). I know i should set up a Reflection free zone for the monitors... But should I Mount panels of 703 all across the room?

My main concern is the drum sound. I don't want it to sound too dead!

3). If 703 is mounted directly to the wall will it still be effective? I know it should be an inch or so away from it. Should i try my hardest to do this?

4). When setting up those foam bass traps, How many should go in each corner? 1? I know i definately need bass traps because my monitors are bass heavy and the room isnt helping.

Sorry if i sound like a big noob i just dont want to make any mistakes.
thanks for all of your help in advance
-shawn

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:33 am

Shawn, I moved this to the Acoustics forum, easier to remember where it is since room treatment (other than possibly BUILDING room treatments) is better handled here -

I'll check back to make sure you don't get lost here

Steve

dymaxian · Post by **dymaxian** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:04 am

Greetings! I'm basically in the same boat- I have one room to use, and rather than dice it up I treated it to be multi-use.

1).I had a friend try the mirror trick for me to see where i should place my panels of 703. It turned out that the monitors only showed up in 1 spot on each side wall. On the ceiling, and the back wall. Is this going to be enough? I thought it would show up more on the side walls.. And does the front wall need to be treated?

The monitors will only have 1st reflections at one point on each wall/ceiling/floor face. And yes, at those points you should put something absorptive.

Most people here will agree that a reflective floor and absorptive ceiling sound best. Especially when recording drums. Having the reflections off the floor coming back up to the overhead mics makes the drums sound big, but the reflections off of the ceiling- depending on how high or low it is- can smear the sound; the ceiling is a lot closer to the mics than the floor. Obviously, the drummer will probably want a rug or something to set up his pedals on, but if you can keep it small and just under the pedals themselves, everything else will be fine on a hard floor.

2). I know i should set up a Reflection free zone for the monitors... But should I Mount panels of 703 all across the room?

Are your speakers built into the front wall? Or are they stand-mounted? RFZ design, to my understanding, is mostly for built-in speaker systems. Stand-mounted speakers get a lot of low-freq sound going out the back and into the front wall, but almost all the highs are coming out the front and into a free field (unless they're right up against the walls, which they shouldn't be). RFZ is concerned mostly with mid- and high-freqs.

John has all kinds of RFZ design ideas on the site. If you use stand-mounted speakers, I'd recommend treating the front wall to absorb lows, but reflect at least most of the mids and highs. My room has 703 spaced away from the wall, with wood slats over it. The lows from the speakers get caught up in the 703, but the trap doesn't deaden the room very much.

3). If 703 is mounted directly to the wall will it still be effective? I know it should be an inch or so away from it. Should i try my hardest to do this?

Spacing it off of the wall will make the 703 absorb deeper frequencies, but flat against the wall it'll absorb mids and highs just fine. My advice would be to space it away from the walls in every spot you can- highs and mids are easy to control, but getting the lows under control takes more work.

What I did to space 703 on 2 of my walls was this; at each stud I put a vertical 2x2, and the side facing away from the mix position I put a 1x6, turned sideways so it stuck out into the room 6". I put 703 between them at this angle, covered it with fabric and then put wood slats over the top. I didn't space the slats to make these spaces into helmholz resonators- but the slats form a saw-tooth pattern that keeps the parallel walls from creating flutter echoes. It absorbs into the low-mids pretty nicely.

4). When setting up those foam bass traps, How many should go in each corner? 1? I know i definately need bass traps because my monitors are bass heavy and the room isnt helping.

Depends on the foam bass trap. Have you already purchased these? If not, you'll probably get much more bang-for-the-buck by just putting 703 across the corners. This will space the 703 off the walls in a nearly-optimal position.

If you have the traps already, they'll probably have advice on placement. However you end up treating the corners, don't forget about the ceiling/wall corners...

Don't worry about sounding like a n00b. We all start out there sometime. At least you're out looking for help.

Kase
www.minemusic.net

MakoBlink · Post by **MakoBlink** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:17 am

Are your speakers built into the front wall? Or are they stand-mounted?

My speakers are stand mounted.

I'd recommend treating the front wall to absorb lows, but reflect at least most of the mids and highs

What do you treat the front walls with? Bass traps or just 703? And can 703 work well as a bass trap as opposed to 705?

but reflect at least most of the mids and highs
How could i reflect the mids and highs?

The lows from the speakers get caught up in the 703, but the trap doesn't deaden the room very much.

I Definately want my room to be somewhat dead.. There is a nasty echo in it, and i can always just add reverb. is this a bad idea?

Lastly when you do set up 703 across a corner? Where do you put it? Closer to the ceiling or closer to the floor? In The middle?

thanks!

dymaxian · Post by **dymaxian** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:21 am

My speakers are stand mounted.

That's ok. I use Mackies, so I'm kinda stuck with stand-mounts too. Just keep them more than a foot from the walls, and you should be ok. But creating a true RFZ around them will be complicated. It also won't be all that necessary... like I mentioned before, the highs and mids come out the front of the speakers, so if you put low freq absorption on the front wall, and design the side walls so that they don't reflect sound right back at you, you'll be in good shape.

What do you treat the front walls with? Bass traps or just 703? And can 703 work well as a bass trap as opposed to 705? How could i reflect the mids and highs?

I'd use either panel traps per Ethan Winer's design or 4" 703 spaced away from the wall. If you can afford the space on the front wall, and can build a 12" deep absorber there, do it. But for the front wall, I'd cover the 703 with fabric and then put wood slats over the top of it- maybe 1x4 with a 1/2" space between them. The mids and highs will bounce off of the wood, but the lows would go right between them to get soaked up by the 703.

I'd guess that putting panel traps along the wall would be your best bet. It'd take up the least space. And they'll reflect the mids and highs for you.

I Definately want my room to be somewhat dead.. There is a nasty echo in it, and i can always just add reverb. is this a bad idea?

In your original post, you mentioned that you did NOT want the room to be dead. I'd think for tracking drums you'd want some natural reverb in the room; the goal is just to turn the nasty echo into a pleasant echo. Using a reverb effect later will work, but having your own room's sound will put a signature on your recordings that can't really be duplicated.

Lastly when you do set up 703 across a corner? Where do you put it? Closer to the ceiling or closer to the floor? In The middle?

Floor to ceiling. Its not that they won't be effective if you don't cover the entire corner, but having the entire corner treated will do much more good. I'd think it'd look goofy to have only part of the corner treated...

Good luck!

Kase
www.minemusic.net

MakoBlink · Post by **MakoBlink** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:15 am

so if you put low freq absorption on the front wall, and design the side walls so that they don't reflect sound right back at you, you'll be in good shape.

So do i put some 703 one on top of the other from floor to ceiling in both corners? and put some 703 scattered around both side walls to stop reflections and i should be good?

Will bass traps be enough for the front wall? Or should i put 703 scattered across that too?

I'd cover the 703 with fabric and then put wood slats over the top of it- maybe 1x4 with a 1/2" space between them. The mids and highs will bounce off of the wood, but the lows would go right between them to get soaked up by the 703.

Do you have a picture of what this will look like? Because this just confuses me :-/. How do i make a 1x4 with a 1/2" space between the panel and the 1x4?

And.. Can i stack up 4 1" 703's to do this? or is it better off getting actual 4" 703 or even 705 because i heard that is better.