Wall Plates & cable advise

[hally]

Hi everyone
I am just about to put my order in for all my cable, wall plates, connectors etc, and thought I should post my plan here just to be sure its ok.

The studio consists of CR, Main Live Room, Drum Room and ISO Vocal booth, the 3d model below will give u an idea



Ok, the audio and data cabling plan so far plus a few questions at the end

Main Live Room Wall Plates





I propose to have 2 wall plates in the Main Live Room as the room is in an L shape. I will be running, from the Control room, 8 channels of XLR multicore to each plate making a total of 16 mic returns to CR from the Main Live Room. The Multicore i am looking @ buying is "Mogami W2932 8ch Snake Cable". I am also considering the cheaper option of the "Gepco 8ch 24AWG Snake Cable". I will be using Neutrik NC3FD-L-1 Panel Mount D Series Female XLRs

Question
Is there a major difference between these 2 types of snake, Mogami vs Gepco and am i cutting corners by going for the cheaper snake and are these connectors ok?

For the headphone returns I plan on using the same type of Gepco snake and Redco Panel Mount TRS Panel Mount Female TRS, Silver Body/GOLD Contacts, Fits D series Cutouts
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1291

Question
Does this sound ok for headphone returns?

INS 1 and 2 will allow me to plug my guitar into the wall plate in the CR and then from the plate in live room into the amp... I plan to use http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=247 type of connector...

Question
Could i use the Redco Panel Mount TRS Panel Mount Female TRS and only solder it for unbalanced instrument cable and am I right in thinking unbalanced instrument cable is right for this application, any recommendations on which cable?

The last panel connector is the GTR 1 + 2, the idea being that the guitar/ bass head is in the CR and from the plate in live room lead connects to Marchall cab.

Question
What type of jack connector should I use in the wall plate?
What type of speaker cable to use to connect CR plate to Live Room plate?
And finally, the lead running from live room plate to the speaker cabinate ( say marchall 12 x 12), is this just a standard instrument lead?


The above questions kinda covers all the other wall plate questions I think I have...

Please feel free to point out any problems you see with my plan and if any additional info is just ask

Warm regards
hally

[wmtunate]

Question
Is there a major difference between these 2 types of snake, Mogami vs Gepco and am i cutting corners by going for the cheaper snake and are these connectors ok?

Those connectors are good. I've used tons of Gepco and Mogami in my day-job, and would have no problems recommending the Gepco over the Mogami for a permanent install.

Question
Does this sound ok for headphone returns?

Yep, that should be fine.

Question
Could i use the Redco Panel Mount TRS Panel Mount Female TRS and only solder it for unbalanced instrument cable and am I right in thinking unbalanced instrument cable is right for this application, any recommendations on which cable?

Yes, solder them unbalanced (tie the ring and sleeve connections together on your jack). I'd use Redco's house brand of instrument cable (TGS-HD) in this situation. Canare GS-4 is good as well, but with a smaller center conductor. With the Redco and Canare, make sure you strip back the black covering from the clear center insulator. it's slightly conductive, and if it's touching the center copper, you can get signal loss.
See this photo:

How long are these instrument runs going to be? I think you might get some signal loss, especially with passive-pickup instruments. You may need some active buffer boxes to drive that much cable.

Question
What type of jack connector should I use in the wall plate?
What type of speaker cable to use to connect CR plate to Live Room plate?
And finally, the lead running from live room plate to the speaker cabinate ( say marchall 12 x 12), is this just a standard instrument lead?

TS connectors would be fine. I'd probably use the enclosed Neutriks because they're stronger and less likely to short across the terminals, especially since these will be high-wattage amplified signals. Run these speaker-level cables away from the mic and line level twisted pairs. You'll want to use two conductor speaker cable for this application, and keep the lengths as short as possible.
Again, I'd use Redco's house-brand 12AWG cable. You'll also need to use this (or similar) cable from the Live Room plate to the speaker cabinet. Definitely do not use a standard instrument lead. Any cable between the amp head and the speaker cabinet needs to be two-conductor speaker cable, preferably at least 14AWG, but it really depends on wattage. 400W bass heads would definitely need 12AWG.

[hally]

Thanks wmtunate for your detailed reply

How long are these instrument runs going to be? I think you might get some signal loss, especially with passive-pickup instruments. You may need some active buffer boxes to drive that much cable.

The maximum instrument run will be 30', if the 30' feet is too long and will introduce signal loss I can confine the instrument runs only to the Drum Room which is approx 10'.
When you refer to active buffer boxes are you talking about DI boxes?

I'd probably use the enclosed Neutriks

Do you have a link to this type of connector?

Run these speaker-level cables away from the mic and line level twisted pairs.

Would it be a good idea to have these speaker connectors on there own small wall plate or is it sufficient that at the back of the wall plate this type of speaker cable is sent in a different direction and away from mic and line level twisted pairs and only comes near the latter at the back of the live room wall plate, hope that makes sence...

I have a few other questions if u have the time and patience

1. Ethernet/ Cat 5, apart from sending a broadband internet signal all around the studio, what other purpose would Cat 5 serve in the studio envirnoment? Wat about cat 6, any info, whats it used for?

2. USB & Firewire, should I consider installing a couple of these in each of the wall plates, what purpose would they serve in the studio envirnoment?

3. Midi Connectors, I am considering installing a few midi connectors between live rooms and CR. Will this type of connector fit D series XLR hole...
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=311
if not are these the type including adaptor i will need
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=312
I have never soldered midi before, is it difficult and how would i achieve midi thru (i don't even know if i'd need midi thru)

4. Finally, are there any other types of cable I should be considering installing with a view to the future?

Thanks in advance
hally

[wmtunate]

The maximum instrument run will be 30', if the 30' feet is too long and will introduce signal loss I can confine the instrument runs only to the Drum Room which is approx 10'.
When you refer to active buffer boxes are you talking about DI boxes?

30' will probably be fine. Depends on the guitar.
I'm thinking of something like this: http://www.axess-electronics.com/sc/BS2 ... 16133.html
There are a bunch of manufacturers with similar boxes.

Do you have a link to this type of connector?

It's the same one you linked to above. Doesn't necessarily need to be Neutrik. That Redco branded clone is fine.

Would it be a good idea to have these speaker connectors on there own small wall plate or is it sufficient that at the back of the wall plate this type of speaker cable is sent in a different direction and away from mic and line level twisted pairs and only comes near the latter at the back of the live room wall plate, hope that makes sence...

I'd just keep them on the same plate and try to maximize the distance between the cables. Theoretically, there shouldn't be any problem running them near balanced twisted pairs. The problem would be with proximity to unbalanced signals. A few inches of distance should suffice.

1. Ethernet/ Cat 5, apart from sending a broadband internet signal all around the studio, what other purpose would Cat 5 serve in the studio envirnoment? Wat about cat 6, any info, whats it used for?

I don't know about Cat6. I'm going to be using Cat5 in conjunction with some Balun boxes to send low-priority audio and video around my studio. http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_avd_2w_av_balun.html
I'll also be using it for sending USB over longer distances. There are a number of remote Headphone Mixer systems that use Cat5 to send audio as well. Cat5 is so cheap and useful that I wouldn't consider wiring a studio without it.

2. USB & Firewire, should I consider installing a couple of these in each of the wall plates, what purpose would they serve in the studio envirnoment?

Some MIDI controllers or other modules use USB and/or Firewire, so it might be useful to have those connections linked between rooms. Be aware that the Firewire spec is only good for cable runs up to 4.5m, though you can get signal boosters and active cables to extend that. I'm not sure what USB spec says about cable lengths.

3. Midi Connectors, I am considering installing a few midi connectors between live rooms and CR. Will this type of connector fit D series XLR hole...
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=311
if not are these the type including adaptor i will need
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=312
I have never soldered midi before, is it difficult and how would i achieve midi thru (i don't even know if i'd need midi thru)

I wasn't planning on putting MIDI connectors in my rooms, because you can send MIDI data over USB or Cat5 pretty easily using some external boxes. Or, you could rig up some DIN to XLR adapters and send MIDI over your twisted pair mic cables, up to about 15m. Only three pins are used on a standard MIDI connector, so it's just a matter of wiring some adapter cables or boxes. There may actually be some commercial adapters for that purpose.

4. Finally, are there any other types of cable I should be considering installing with a view to the future?

The only one I can think of that you haven't mentioned is 75ohm coax for video, though video can be sent over Cat5 with the balun boxes. I'd probably add at least two Cat5 ports to each of your panels. You can get jacks that fit D-series holes.

[ROCKINROG]

For guitar cable runs I'd use Canare GS-6. The Mic/Line runs I'd run Canare L-4E4-AT. I believe Gepco has a similar multicore for much cheaper that would do as well. Definitely run CAT 6 cables as they can be used for Furman headphone systems, KVM extenders,other Gefen extenders for computer peripherals as well as basic internet or network connections. Neutrik also makes the RJ-45 D Series jacks for panels.

Cheers, Roger R Cunningham
Wired Audio & Video Installations

[hally]

thanks again wmtunate and ROCKINROG for the info, I think I have enough to get started with my order of cable and connectors

ROCKINROG, quick question, is cat 6 cable easy enough to connect to these RJ-45 D Series connectors, is it a soldering job or screw down or feedthru?

thanks again
hally

[John Sayers]

Cheers, Roger R Cunningham
Wired Audio & Video Installations

anyone with my ex wife's maiden name is welcome here

welcome to the site Roger.

[ROCKINROG]

Ya Hally the Neutrik RJ-45 connectors are like any other in the industry they are IDC (punch down) with a foldover strain relief for the cable itself. I don't think there's a company in the world that can top connector design and manufacturing like the Swiss. :>)
http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/dataconnec ... group.aspx

Another tidbit of info...don't believe all the hype over Mogami. It's great cable but it's really not worth that much of a premium price/performance. I had a tech friend actually do test analysis on Mogami,Belden,Delco,Gepco and Canare. The Canare came out on top and the Delco was the worst. (of course we already knew about how bad Delco is)

Thanks John. I love this site for various DIY stuff. I've been registered on the site for awhile. I was doing alot of acoustical info searching at one time. Just the other day I started organising links so now it's one of my main tabs. So you say EX-wife? I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing? ;>)

[lilith_envy]

I can believe any one on this site would be running guitar cable longer than 10ft! expecially permanently in a studio environment
Have you heard of DI's (direct injection) boxes? Run all audio signal balanced. No compromise

[John Sayers]

I can believe any one on this site would be running guitar cable longer than 10ft! expecially permanently in a studio environment
Have you heard of DI's (direct injection) boxes? Run all audio signal balanced. No compromise

[hally]

Thanks lilith, never thought of that, makes perfect sence

regards hally

[ROCKINROG]

I can believe any one on this site would be running guitar cable longer than 10ft! expecially permanently in a studio environment
Have you heard of DI's (direct injection) boxes? Run all audio signal balanced. No compromise

I've been doing this for years in every studio I've built and it works like a charm with Canare GS-6. I always put in both guitar and speaker lines from the control room rack panels to the bulkhead panels on the floor. It leaves your options open for the guitarist, depending on whether he/she wants the guitar in the control or the guitar and amp head. Were not talking about 300' runs where you'd get high frequency roll-off, more like 50'-70'. Direct boxes are fine if you're using it for a dry guitar (for plugin processing) or a bass guitar directly to the console or A/D converter inputs for your DAW along with a mic'd cabinet.