A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Plans and things, layout, style, where do I put my near-fields etc.

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Lexinator
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A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

Okay, deep breath...

Some idiot just offered me more for one of my "hand-built" Harley's than anyone in criminal possession of rational sense could possibly turn down...

So, I'm gonna do something I was gonna do a long time ago, and build myself a studio, right here in my house. Well, okay... not exactly "in" my house, but right next to it.

Here's where is gets complicated. Right next to my house are (4) shipping containers (all welded together, and insulated with 9"-12" of spray-in foam insulation) buried under four feet of soil.


The guy I bought the property from was gonna use it as a temperature-stabilized warehouse.

When I got it, it had (10) old cars pushed into it. I sold three of them, to build the Harley I just sold. So, HE actually paid for all of this! I love it when a plan comes together!

"The Cave" is cut into a hillside, that is really just a berm created by piling dirt on top of the containers. It's structurally sound, I had it checked out by engineers. There's a ton of rigid insulation and then almost 6" of steel-reinforced (rebar) concrete sprayed over the top of it...
ManCave1sm.jpg
There are several skylights (okay, about 12) built into the warehouse, that are basically just concrete boxes 5+ feet tall, capped with regular "venting" 4' x 4' skylights. These extend up thru the earth roof.[/color]

The vents are motorized, and "mech operated." You can set them to open or close with a thermostat.
ManCave2sm.jpg
One long side of the box is exposed, with an overhang of about four feet, to provide some shade. In the center, are two big truck doors, that I'll tear out, and replace with an "airlock door" and windows...

The rough measurements are: 32' x 40' x 9'6"

The inside measurements are: 30'6" x 38'6" x 9' with a slab floor that is 12" of steel-reinforced concrete. (He was gonna drive tractors over it.)

It's completely open inside. He used beams, the existing container steel framing, and enough welding rod to build the Eiffel Tower to build one big open space.

Don't get me wrong, I've been in lots of studios, but nothing like this "space." And frankly, as a guitarist, I haven't been as attentive as I should have been, to "the technical bits..." That's what techs, geeks, and ponytails are for, god love 'em...

It's got its puzzles. The inside of the box is solid foam insulation. I mean... solid... in some places a foot thick. Massive skylights all over the place. NO HVAC and just a "wee bit" of power. Except for the bounce off the floors, it's a dead zone.

And then there is actually coming up with the layout. It's only about 1300 square feet.

But I'm thinking with some help, it could be fab.

I'm thinking a control room, an Equipment Room, a nice studio "space," a podcast booth, an ISO booth, and a Piano room (for a Boston GP195 Grand Piano), some kind of "production lounge," and a small bathroom.

It'll be used for writing and producing scores, doing some podcasting and interviews, and other assorted projects, primarily by myself and a few drunken hooligans who call themselves "a guild of guitarists and musical miscreants."

I figure I need to allow for space for no more than about 8-10 musicians at any given time.

What I want to do is build a place where "new talent" can go to record, without suffering the slings and arrows of the "ponytails." As a guitarist, I've had a good run, and it's time to give something back.

I'll do some rough sketches (remember I'm a guitarist, and not an architect or engineer) and then I'm gonna ask for your help and suggestions.

I have about $50-70 grand to spend on the actual building.

I gotta be careful, because at my age, it ain't likely that I'll meet any rich widows (my wife wouldn't like it), and I ain't gonna come into any money from relatives. Heck, I probably won't even get Social Security, cuz' it'll be broke by then!

Some follow-up thoughts for "Man Cave Audio:"

I've thought about doing this for a while now. But, like everybody else, I had to justify the expense. Selling that ride just put me over the top, and with the economy going straight to "you-know-where..." I figure it's "now or never."

I've got a SSL AWS 900+ that's been sitting in a crate for a few years now. Don't ask. I won't tell... Upgrading it to SE won't be that hard.

I've got a Studer A-800 MkIII, and a pair of Akai DPS24's. All trade-outs, both "talent" and "stuff."

I've got enough computers and tools to fill a small bunker, so that's no problem either.

I'm really handy in the workshop, so custom enclosures and "boxes" will be pretty straight-forward.

About the studio;

Not only would it enhance my ability to work at "home," I could open it up to the locals, and take in a intern or two, to help the "educational learning curve."

The hardest part about getting behind that big desk... is getting behind a big desk, in a REAL environment. I know that the schools have cool stuff, but the feeling that "you have to make money or die" just isn't there. It's just not the same.

I already have a bunkhouse, so I can put up several people at a time, to work and record. But, those people better be "olfactory challenged," because frankly, musicians can be a rather smelly lot...

I'm thinking that once it's started going up, I'll bring in an intern or two for the summer, who "lives in..." every year. Maybe even a resident musician or two...

I suppose it makes sense to begin this studio build, by trying to define the spaces needed, both by use, and approximate size.

A Podcasting booth is just a room with a mic and a desk with a tele-prompter, so that's a no brainer - we're talking about a cubicle sized room, that looks into the control room. It'd also double as a "commercial vocals" (as in radio and TV commercials) and "voice-over" booth.

Again, it'd be used enough to dedicate a space to it.

The ISO booth for vocals or a guitar or two... How big is enough? Figure three or four guys (or gals) in there at once, maximum.

But I need a room for professional drum kits, and a grand piano. Anybody got any suggestions about how big those two spaces should be?

The piano gets used daily. The drum kit, almost as often. So, I'd like to make 'em warm and cozy! ;-)

The ISO booth for vocals... How big is enough? Figure three or four guys (or gals) in there at once, maximum.

I figure once I carve out these places, I'll know what I have left, for the "main room..."

I have access to as much gear as I need, so that'll come later. What I can't get "because I'm an old 'used to be famous' guy," I'll buy out of a "war chest" that has about $40,000 in it, to date.

I've seen the kind of things you guys can do, and frankly, I want a piece of it. Your talent would make anybody proud!

(How's that for gratuitous praise and the piling on of "butt-kissing and brown-nosin'?")

I need help with this! You have any suggestions? Comments? Sarcasm?

(Remember, I'm old. No "anatomical impossibilities," huh?)

Help an old guy learn new tricks. It's good karma!

And keep this on the "low-low..." Huh? If my wife finds out about it, she'll wanna buy (gasp!) shoes!

Sorry for the lack of "metrics..." and I apologize for the lengthy post...

And... as a footnote, I want to figure out what I want to do, before I go sign a contract to a designer. If I do this right, some brilliant "tech type" here may just end up getting a check from me, for helping figure this mess out!

Lexx
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Soundman2020 »

Say, Lexx! Hi and welcome! And I vote that your space be officially dubbed the most unusual empty shell ever heard of on this forum! :) I'm not 100% sure, but I don't recall any other space that tops "four shipping containers welded together deep underground with motorized chimney vents and foot thick solid foam insulation on the walls and ten old cars plus a recently sold Harley inside"! Most of us get to build in highly original places like "basement" or "garage" or "bedroom", but your mundane and rather common space is something else!

Anyway, what I'd suggest you do to get started is to read the "Don't even think about posting here unless you read this" post, which you can find right here (click here). You already included a lot of that stuff, but there's one key item that I know yo missed :)

I'd also suggest that you download a program called SketchUp from Google, and spend a little while learning how to use it. It's not very intuitive, and takes a while to get your brain around it, but it is really useful for modeling your studio in 3D. We all use it here, so it makes it easy to interchange files and ideas and even bits of studio, as well as to check for stupid mistakes in design that could lead to disaster in construction. So just make a 3D model of your empty space in SketchUp, and most it here for folks to offer their suggestions.

If you haven't already done so, then you'll probably want to get yourself copies of the two most-recommended books around here. Once is just referred to as "Rod's book", but the full title is "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", and you can get it at Amazon, or many other places. http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-St ... 580&sr=8-1 The other book is "Master Handbook of Acoustics", by F. Alton Everest: Also available at Amazon, et. al. Between them, those two books cover the subject really, really well. (The author of the first book, Rod Gervais, is a regular poster here on this forum.)

So once again, welcome, and you can bet that I'll be following your build, with great interest, since it is just such a damn unusual space!


- Stuart -
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by xSpace »

It reads like you are more in need of some life in this room then isolation. Earth mostly all the way around you should have that covered. I wonder how the square skylights are interacting with the damped interior. The parallel boundaries in them, with so many, must be creating a noticeable effect. Good thing is, opened up, you have manageable bass trapping ;)

Got pix?
Lexinator
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

Soundman2020 wrote:Say, Lexx! Hi and welcome! And I vote that your space be officially dubbed the most unusual empty shell ever heard of on this forum! :) ... Anyway, what I'd suggest you do to get started is to read the "Don't even think about posting here unless you read this" post, which you can find right here (click here). You already included a lot of that stuff, but there's one key item that I know yo missed :)
Thanks for the welcome, Stuart;

I forgot something? I read that damned thing three times to make sure I complied. Argh! What did I forget?

I guess now would be a bad time to tell you that there are actually three of these "caverns" scattered throughout the property? I'm just using the closest one to the house. The guy who built them was into organics, and stored huge bags of palm husks in them... TONs of palm husks... They use them in some homeopathic cancer med's, I'm told. Ironically, he died of cancer... Not gonna laugh, but sheesh... talk about irony! I bought the property from his relatives, for "a song..."

I've thought about converting one of the other ones to a "guest house."

I've recorded in a cave that was converted to a recording studio, in the Islands... It's one of the places where I got the idea to try this.

I've already ordered the books in question. I'd thought to get a jump on this, by putting it out there for people to ridicule. I'm always open to people's opinions, so... here I is! ;-)

I'll take a crack at SketchUp. I've heard of it, but I've been using Autocad off and on, and I never really picked it up and played with it. The scribbles I posted were done on (gasp!) PCPaint. I'll see what I can do.

Again, I'm open to suggestions, as long as they're rational. I mean, what are the odds of that happening? After all, I'm asking "musicians" for advise! LOL!

Lexx
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Soundman2020 »

Again, I'm open to suggestions, as long as they're rational. I mean, what are the odds of that happening? After all, I'm asking "musicians" for advise! LOL!
All musicians! Except for me.... I'm just a plain old sound engineer. Of course, that doesn't mean you'll get any more rational suggestions out of me that from a musician... :)

One question: What's underneath? Your drawing shows some kind of foundations: Are those containers sitting on a slab of some sort? Is the slab on grade? Just curious, more than anything. I doubt it makes a big difference acoustically.

One thing I can DEFINITELY say about your situation: isolation from the outside world is probably not going to be an issue! You already seem to have more of that than you could possibly need. So it's basically down to layout, internal isolation, and treatment. Cool!

My first thought is maybe you don't need to rip off those nice big doors on the outside: they might work just fine as your outer leaf doors. That and the "skylight-chimney" things are about the only part of your outer leaf that you'll have to worry about. The rest is all in place.

How about some posting pics of what you have? And the Harley too?


- Stuart -
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

xSpace wrote:It reads like you are more in need of some life in this room then isolation. Earth mostly all the way around you should have that covered. I wonder how the square skylights are interacting with the damped interior. The parallel boundaries in them, with so many, must be creating a noticeable effect. Good thing is, opened up, you have manageable bass trapping ;)
Hi xSpace,

I thought for a minute there you were telling me that I needed to "get" a life... LOL!

I haven't taken a Sound Meter into the cave yet. And, I'm curious to see what we'll have to do with the skylights. Believe it or not, they provide a LOT of light and that is something I'd love to capitalize on, if we can find a way to peacefully coexist with them. The only place that isn't insulated with "foam" is the truck doors, and they actually have insulation built into them. The guy that built it wasn't taking any chances, evidently.

More later, I gotta go read that FAQ again, to figure out what I left out! :-)

Lexx
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by xSpace »

Well, Stuart is a stickler for detail and pedantic...it can be an overwhelming combo :)

Mostly it is sound levels that you are missing, everything else is good.

It takes time for these things, and we have it :)

But it would be interesting to know what level of sound the existing build can stop.

(my younger brother has the same qualities...)


Brien
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

Soundman2020 wrote:
One question: What's underneath? Your drawing shows some kind of foundations: Are those containers sitting on a slab of some sort? Is the slab on grade? Just curious, more than anything. I doubt it makes a big difference acoustically.

My first thought is maybe you don't need to rip off those nice big doors on the outside: they might work just fine as your outer leaf doors. That and the "skylight-chimney" things are about the only part of your outer leaf that you'll have to worry about. The rest is all in place.

How about some posting pics of what you have? And the Harley too?
- Stuart -
Hi Stuart;

The containers sit on an insulated and reinforced concrete "footed" slab. The slab has a foot of foam under it. The guy who built the place cut the flooring out off the containers, and secured them to the slab, to form the shell. They're actually embedded in the concrete. He had big rubber mats on top of the slab, interlocking tiles like you'd find in a gym, or a warehouse. I have no idea where he got them.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, how can I use those truck doors as "outer leaf doors?" They're HUGE. Wouldn't it be smarter to just build an airlock? Or am I missing something?

I'll take some pics of the warehouse when it stops raining. As for the bike, well... I wouldn't want to make you cry, but... LOL!
Carnivore1sm.jpg
It was one of three built. The other two are with collectors... 600+ pounds of NOX screamin', handlebar flappin' fun... Can you say... YEE F'in HAW!!!? I knew you could...
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by jlemon »

Lexinator wrote:As for the bike, well... I wouldn't want to make you cry, but... LOL!
As I am a life long biker-only easy rider freak, I'm crying my ass off... :cry:

Lucky US folks... :cry:

Oh, and good luck with your build, friend! You came to the right place... :thu:

John
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

jlemon wrote:
Lexinator wrote:As for the bike, well... I wouldn't want to make you cry, but... LOL!
As I am a life long biker-only easy rider freak, I'm crying my ass off... :cry:

Lucky US folks... :cry:

Oh, and good luck with your build, friend! You came to the right place... :thu:

John
Hi John,

I still look at it's spot in the shop, and hang my head, but I couldn't turn down the cash... Opportunities like that don't often repeat themselves. So, now I get a new adventure... "Adventures in Hi-End Audio." And I'm sure it'll have me flapping from the handlebars in no time... At least I won't get "roadrash..." :mrgreen:

Lexx
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Soundman2020 »

Man, that is one mean looking machine! It just screams "power!" and "speed"!!!!

You could probably actually tow a couple of your containers with that thing! WoW!
The containers sit on an insulated and reinforced concrete "footed" slab. The slab has a foot of foam under it. The guy who built the place cut the flooring out off the containers, and secured them to the slab, to form the shell. They're actually embedded in the concrete.
Once again! WOW! He went to a lot of trouble to build that place by the sounds of it. And it really does seem like it has the makings of a great studio. Concrete floor on foam on grade, steel and earth all around, etc.
At the risk of sounding ignorant, how can I use those truck doors as "outer leaf doors?" They're HUGE. Wouldn't it be smarter to just build an airlock? Or am I missing something?
Well, it's just an idea, but if they are so massive and big, they will probably be great isolators, if you can just figure out a way to get them to seal tight when you close them. Assuming that they are the kind of door I'm thinking of, of course! Basically something like the normal door on a container, only bigger?

I'm not sure if you are up to speed on the concept of "leaves" yet, but basically the best way to get good acoustic isolation is to have two and only two "leaves" between you and the outside world, never one or three or more. A "leaf" is just a chunk of mass on one side of a wall. It might be made up of several layers of drywall, or bricks, or concrete blocks, or lead plate, or whatever. In your case, your "outer leaf" is the container walls, floor and ceiling, plus the dirt on the other side of them. Except on the fourth side, where the doors are. So seeing that you have a massive outer leaf already around five sides of your room, then those doors might be useful as part of the leaf on the sixth side. Assuming that you can get them to seal well, or course.

All if your actual rooms are built inside of this outer "leaf". In other words, each room has its own "inner leaf". The inner leaf is usually built with a stud frame and several layers of drywall on only one side of the studs (either "inside" the stud frame, or "outside" the stud frame, in which case the room is said to be built "inside out".). The inner leaf includes the walls AND the ceiling. Some folks forget about the ceiling, that there needs to be a separate ceiling for each room, and each ceiling is supported only by the walls of that specific room, with absolutely no connections to anything else. Every now and then you'll come across a thread like that, where someone forgot that the ceiling is not the roof, which is a big mistake.

So the basic concept is mass in your outer leaf, mass in your inner leaf, and in between your inner leaf and outer leaf you have an air gap filled with mineral wool, fiberglass, or some similar for of open-cell insulation. The "air-plus-insulation" acts as an acoustical spring between your two leaves of mass, so you'll often see the entire structure referred to here as "MAM" (for "Mass-Air-Mass"), or more correctly as "MSM" (for "Mass-spring-Mass").

Now comes the trick part: It would seem logical and intuitive that if two leaves of mass are good, then three leaves must be better, and four would be fantastic. In fact, that isn't true at all. The exact opposite is true, for the low end of the spectrum (where drums and bass guitars live, and also rumbling Harleys....). Adding a third leaf will actually make for worse isolation at the low end, all other factors being equal. It helps the high end, yes, but messes up the low end. And adding a fourth layer makes the low end even worse, all other factors being equal.

So a three-leaf wall will give you worse isolation than a two-leaf wall of the same mass, thickness, etc. Not intuitive, but welcome to the wonderful world of acoustics! Lots of things are not intuitive here.

Sorry if you already knew all that stuff, but I thought I'd mention it again, just in case.

So that's my rather long-winded way of saying that it might be possible to use your massive truck doors as the outer-leaf doors, and just build your airlock inside that, with the inner-leaf doors leading to the rooms.

Now, maybe that is impractical for whatever reason, but my line of thinking was that if you have massive doors in good condition already, then why take them off, throw them away, and build another massive door in their place? Why not try to use them as part of the solution?


- Stuart -
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

Hi Stuart,

Trying to wrap my head around SketchUp, while my baby son tries to climb the entertainment center. I suspect he thinks he's David Lee Roth! :shock:
Soundman2020 wrote:
Man, that is one mean looking machine! It just screams "power!" and "speed"!!!! You could probably actually tow a couple of your containers with that thing! WoW!
It was "rather powerful." In nitrous mode, I hit 197 mph once, on a newly paved piece of freeway out in the Cali desert, after a Vegas run. I ran it out for a few miles and then just backed off slowly, so my leathers could drain... It started to shake like an earthquake in LA... Oh wait... that was me! :o
The containers sit on an insulated and reinforced concrete "footed" slab. The slab has a foot of foam under it. The guy who built the place cut the flooring out off the containers, and secured them to the slab, to form the shell. They're actually embedded in the concrete.
... He went to a lot of trouble to build that place by the sounds of it. And it really does seem like it has the makings of a great studio. Concrete floor on foam on grade, steel and earth all around, etc.
His relatives said he was "obsessive/compulsive." I inherited his "weight stand" which he built out of angle iron, and it weighed more than the free weights he had piled on it. I'd have gotten into better shape trying to benchpress the bench!
At the risk of sounding ignorant, how can I use those truck doors as "outer leaf doors?" They're HUGE. Wouldn't it be smarter to just build an airlock? Or am I missing something?
Well, it's just an idea, but if they are so massive and big, they will probably be great isolators, if you can just figure out a way to get them to seal tight when you close them. Assuming that they are the kind of door I'm thinking of, of course! Basically something like the normal door on a container, only bigger?
Nope. Nothing of the kind. They are actually rolling truck doors, that slide back and forth on a track to open and close. They measure about 9' high, by 10' wide... each... Even insulated and weatherstripped, they're as leaky as a blond groupies head... We might be able to reuse them, as building material, but "as built," no way.

(My apologies to any "blond groupies" lurking out there... Don't blame me, it's YOUR stereotype!) :lol:
I'm not sure if you are up to speed on the concept of "leaves" yet, but basically the best way to get good acoustic isolation is to have two and only two "leaves" between you and the outside world, never one or three or more.
I'm trying to wrap my head around that, as we speak. Allowance for that "inner leaf" will give me rough dimensions to build into, right? And I should be considering the inside/out wall system, as well, right?

And remember that I'm (first and foremost) a musician. Check that... I'm a guitarist. No sense giving real "musicians" a bad name... :lol: Stuart, I appreciate the detail that you've gifted me with. Truly. I came here to learn, and then... to do. Anything you can teach me, will assist me in creating a successful studio space!

I've already printed it out and added it to my "try and absorb this, you senile old b@st@rd..." file.

I suppose the blessing is the earth berm. The curse is the skylights, and their "channels.

My goal here was to try and actually define the space, into the portions required to actually be a successful "house." I know that in the end, I''ll need a designer to tell me I'm an idiot and then lead me to water... But hopefully, I'll have most of it nailed down, to cut down the production costs, and enable myself to spend money on building, and not excessive thinking... Does that make sense?
Every now and then you'll come across a thread like that, where someone forgot that the ceiling is not the roof, which is a big mistake.
Yeah, I learned about that in college. I did too go to college! It's where the cute girls hung out! I just didn't go to class... often. So... Stop it! Where was I? Oh yeah...

"A table is actually a chair if you sit on it..." But "Your door is ajar..." still doesn't make sense to me. I mean... my door is a door, right? Hmmm... I'm confused!

Okay, basically, we're just talking about "rooms in rooms, isolated by air gaps." Right? Sounds logical. No pun intended.

I'm still thinking this through, and starting to think that the gear I want to use may also help to define the spaces. Any thoughts to that one?

And I haven't forgotten about the photos, I'll take some, when the weather clears. It's been pouring for two days now. I'm gonna start wishing that was an ark, if it doesn't stop soon...

Thanks for the help, Stuart! Really, man... I appreciate it. I'll stick with SketchUp, and try to get better drawings done.
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Lexinator »

More "Man Cave Audio" gyrations;

I've been going thru paper work and engineering reports, and I've come across some stuff that might be interesting.

It appears that the sprayed-foam insulation that was used to coat the inside of the building was of the open cell variety.

Why?

Because it was cheaper, and the guy who built the building knew that he already had 4 feet of soil, 6 inches of concrete, and 6-8" of rigid poly foam outside the building. The idea of foaming the inside of the building was to cut down on the noise levels created. He was gonna have people working in there, and he was also using heavy equipment. Voila, open cell wins! But, he also sprayed a fire-retardant over the open cell foam. According to the notes and receipts, two coats.

Does this fire-retardant coating negate the effects of the open cell foam to absorb sound?

Hmmm... I wonder. Anybody know?

I figure that my soil is about R.25 per inch (I asked a local engineer), and I've got 48" inches of it, minimum depth. There's R12. I've got 6" (at least) of rigid polyisocyanurate foam on the roof. There's R42 and change. Then, there's 6" of steel reinforced concrete, with it's R value of about 1.2. So... three... carry the five... minus the square root of the diameter of my butt... I have an R value of R55+, before we get to the open cell foam... which has an R value of about R38 (R3.5 x 9"). Which means that I have a shell with about R88 insulation value with about R86 (7.04 x 12 inches of foam + 1.5 for the 12" of concrete according to the docs I'm reading) in the floor...

So, we won't freeze, or drown evidently... as there is waterproof membrane sprayed on both sides of the concrete walls.

There's an "achieved STC (Sound Transmission Class) rating of 80+" on some paperwork here, taken by an engineer who spec'd the "foam interior."

I called a guy tonight, and who works in the "commercial sound industry" (he's an install tech) and after inspecting all the paperwork, he said I should open a movie theater in there.

Now, you know as much as I do. And frankly, if that's true, I feel sorry for you! 'Cuz right about now, I'm feeling as dumb as a rock compared to you guys!

Lexx
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by xSpace »

What are your thoughts on hvac? Maybe just air in general :)
Soundman2020
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Re: A Harley Fueled "Man Cave Audio" Studio Build! HELP!!!

Post by Soundman2020 »

I'd have gotten into better shape trying to benchpress the bench!
That one got a good chuckle out of me! :lol: I get the picture.... And I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself, so I can kind of appreciate what he did.
They are actually rolling truck doors, that slide back and forth on a track to open and close. They measure about 9' high, by 10' wide... each... Even insulated and weatherstripped, they're as leaky as a blond groupies head...
That leaky, ehhhh? Ahhhh! OK. So scrap that idea! Yup, it looks like you'll be building yourself a new outer-leaf wall in place of those doors. Any plans on how to do that? Concrete? Brick? Stud wall with siding? Order another container and cut the sides off, then weld them in place? :)

Seriously, maybe sand-filled concrete block would be quick and easy, and in keeping with the rest of the construction. Some kind of large, heavy and very solid door. It needs to be large, because you'll be dragging equipment and instruments in and out through it all the time. So make it big enough to fit the larges instrument you might ever want in your room. Grand piano, maybe?
I suppose the blessing is the earth berm. The curse is the skylights, and their "channels".
Yep, and yep.! The earth is great, the skylights not so great: The domes are plexiglass or something similar, I guess? If so, not much good acoustically. Real glass would be better. Laminate glass would be fantastic. Any chance the obsessive-compulsive previous owner put really thick laminate glass in the skylights? Probably not.

What are the "channels" made of, and how long are they?
Allowance for that "inner leaf" will give me rough dimensions to build into, right? And I should be considering the inside/out wall system, as well, right?
The inner leaf is your final dimensions of your room! It doesn't give you "space to build into": it IS your build. All that goes inside your inner leaf is the equipment and you. When your inner leaf is complete, then your room structure is complete, and only needs treatment. The hard surface on your inner-leaf walls is the acoustic surface of your room, and you'll use that when you start calculating your room ratio and geometry.

Inside-out construction is useful if you have really tight space and need to maximize every last inch. It also reduces construction cost slightly, as you can use the framing structure as part of your acoustic treatment of the room, whereas if you built a normal wall you'd have to make frames, stands or additional support structures for your treatment. Inside-out has advantages, and also disadvantages. One disadvantage: It is harder to build, and harder to seal tightly.
My goal here was to try and actually define the space, into the portions required to actually be a successful "house." I know that in the end, I''ll need a designer to tell me I'm an idiot and then lead me to water...
Well, you've come to the right place, then! This place is full of world-class designers! (and also folks like me, who aren't experts or designers at all, and are just muddling along, still learning this stuff as we go).

You might even want to consider hiring one of those designers, like John or Rod, to actually design your place for you, if it gets to be too complex for you to design yourself. That would be money well spent. Or you could post your rough outline of what you are thinking, and let the rest of us maybe try to help you whip it into shape.
But hopefully, I'll have most of it nailed down, to cut down the production costs, and enable myself to spend money on building, and not excessive thinking... Does that make sense?
Sounds like a plan to me! That's more or less what I'm doing here too: thinking out loud about my design, listening very carefully to the comments from others, reading through the numerous build threads here, and adjusting my design. Rinse. Repeat. This place is a treasure trove of solid, sound advice and information about building and treating your studio. There are many places on the internet that claim to offer such advice, but very few that actually do. This is one of them. Some still waffle about egg crates on the walls and carpet on the ceiling! :shock:
Okay, basically, we're just talking about "rooms in rooms, isolated by air gaps." Right?
Yup, that's basically it! You got it.
I'm still thinking this through, and starting to think that the gear I want to use may also help to define the spaces. Any thoughts to that one?
Absolutely. I don't think I've actually heard any designer say it (as far as I recall), but to me it seems logical to build your control room around your speakers, since they are the things that produce all the sound, and "sound" is what it is all about. So my "philosophy" is to start with your speakers, and build the control room around them, to give them the best possible chance of sounding good. Do you already have your speakers, or at least have you decided which ones you want?

In the case of your live room, I think I'd design that around the type of instruments / genre that you plan to record.

That's my US$ 0.02.


- Stuart -
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