Newbie wants to build a mic/iso booth. Please help me.

[puppethead5]

Before I ask questions I would like to say a couple of things. Thankyou Spinsterwun (a member of homerecording.com) for directing me to this site. I would also like to thank the owner and mods. This is a well layed out site with a lot of info. Thanks for sharing ideas and tips.
Now on to the questions. I was wondering if someone here could help me out. My room is 8 feet high and 2 walls are 12 feet in length while the other two walls are 13 feet 6 inches in length. My walls are treated with foam and I get a nice sound from the room but I need a mic/iso booth for vocals. I want it to be 4 feet on each side and 7'6 feet high. I'm going to treat the inside of that with aurelex foam but I dont understand the building part.

1. Do I need "sound board", particle board (check spelling), fiberglass and sheetrock?

2.how high should the floor of the booth be from the ground? Meaning if I should make it so a person steps UP and IN how high should it be?

3.what type of screws/bolts/clamps do I need and where would I get the plastic for the window?

4.I like the sound I get from my treated room. Things translate well when I a-b test, I don't hear a lot of boomy bass and I don't hear a lot of reverb when I clap. Can I get a "better" sound by treating the walls with some kind of board (attaching the board to the wall) and attaching the aurelex foam to that board?

5.I just laid new carpet (40 ounce pad, etc etc etc) but should I treat the ceiling with sound absorbiton blankets?

6. The room is in a house and here are the specs:

The "north" wall is 13 ft 6 inches with a 5 ft 10 and a half inch window.

The "south" wall is 13 ft 6 inches with 2 30 inch doors that are seperated by a 39 inch space.

The "west" wall is 12 feet.

The "east" wall is 12 feet.


the walls and ceiling are comprised of sheetrock, insulation and wood.

I can get the wood,screws etc etc etc on discount (my pal works for a lumber yard) but I need to know what to get. If someone can direct me to building plans (I haven't found any on the net) or have info that might be useful feel free to link it, post it or say it.


Thanks in advance guys.


puppethead

ps keep in mind guys I'm a newbie and I don't understand a lot of this stuff. A lot of the plans I looked at seemed as if Einstein wrote them (thats a compliment of skill and talent to those who actually wrote them).

[knightfly]

Hey, PH, first welcome to the board - second, welcome to the list of people who want more info on vocal booths. I've been trying to find time to finish just such a plans project, and so far not being very successful.

Your list of questions is more than I have time for right now, as I'm in the 12-hour graveyard shift phase of my schedule. I'll be able to do more in a day or two, probably not before.

Briefly, don't build a 4 x 4 booth with 8 foot ceilings, ever. No room should have any two dimensions that are even multiples of each other, much less identical. all that does is to accent one or more specific frequencies and make the room harder to treat for decent sound.

For now, if you've not read through the "stickies" section please do - especially the one titled "complete section" - the principles outlined there apply to any isolation room.

I'll try to get back with more answers as soon as I can - to make sure I don't forget, post back here to "refresh" the thread so I don't miss it... Steve

[linus]

I hope you get a chance to develope plans for an iso booth.

I have found a rental space in Manhattan, 5 blocks from my apartment. It is a basement room in an old brownstone building. Well insulated from outside noise but there is a tenant above this space. I need to protect them from my noise (guitar amp 2x10" combo/and hopefully drumkit on rare occasion).

The room I am renting is a rectangle that is 21' long by 12.5' wide. The ceiling is 7.5' high. There is a small space (9' long, 5.5' wide, and 7.5' high) additional to one of the corners of the room. I would like to build an iso booth in that space.

I've been reading the sticky's and finding them quite helpful.

My lease starts April 1 so I have a few weeks to get my act together.

Thanks

[puppethead5]

Thanks for replying Knightfly. I've been reading the stickys section and the majority of it still seems like a foreign language. I have a willingness to learn so that should help me in the long run. How about I reduce my booth dimensions and go 3 and a half by 7 and a half or 4 by 7?

for this vocal/iso booth I plan on using 3/4 Gypsum board, 4/8 sheet rock, 2x4x8 (for the corners) and "liquid nail" to make everythign stick. From what I gather holes and nails are NOT good thats why I choose the liquid nail. What type of insulation or sound blankets should I use between the gypsum and sheetrock? Should I use anything at all? Basically I see it as:


1.Gypsum

2.Insulation/blankets

3.sheet rock

4.acoustic foam


Please bear with me as I am new to this. Most of what I said is probably idiocy but I need to be corrected and this is the place for seeking info.


Thanks.


puppet

[knightfly]

Linus, can you post a drawing of your space? That always helps when discussing things - sometimes an actual picture is necessary too - just please keep things down to 750 pixels wide (Paint lets you do this fairly easy)

Puppet, I'm not ignoring you, just on 12-hour graveyard shifts. Tonite is the last one, then I'll try to catch up on all the loose ends... Steve

[puppethead5]

^^^ Sir you're taking *your* time out to help *me*. I'm very thankful for that and see no need to rush you. I'm not becoming impatient I have to read for myself (like you suggested) and learn. I'm finally starting to understand mass, air, dissimalar materials and STC. As for materials I have the following now:


5 sheets of 3/4 particle board (4x8)

5 sheets of 1/2 sheet rock (4x8 and should have probably purchased the 5/8 boards)

5 sheets of sound deadening board

8 2x4x8 fr studs/posts

1 pack of r-13 insulation (covers 40 feet)

1 plexiglass



Here are the questions I need answering:

1.Nails or "Liquid Nail"? I know holes and nails are a no no but can I use nails and seal around the head of the nails?

2.Can I find a THICKER alternative to the plexiglass? It's very thin...VERY thin.

3.I could not find 3.5 and RC Should I stick with the r-13?

4.Should I keep the 2x4x8's or should I use metal studs?

4.What can I use to seal the door/hinges?

How I see it I'm going to use the particle board as my first layer. I'm going to connect my studs to the particle board, I'm going to place insulation between the studs and I'm going to use the sound deading board to cover the insulation. The sheet rock will be used to cover the sound deadening board and aurelex or sonex foam will be used to treat the sheet rock. Basically what i described is the outside going in. If I'm wrong please correct me.


puppet

[dymaxian]

Greetings! I've probably got some of the same questions in my mind as Steve does- and I'll back up his request for a drawing...

Biggest question is this- you're talking about how big your room is, and specs on the house, but I have no idea where exactly you want to put this booth! Are you going to steal some of your control room space?

There's a bunch of your questions I can answer, tho, so here goes.

1.Nails or "Liquid Nail"? I know holes and nails are a no no but can I use nails and seal around the head of the nails?

Nails are fine for the rough framing stuff. Once you get into hanging drywall you should be using screws anyway, so that problem solves itself. If you won't be taping/finishing the drywall joints, caulk the snot out of them.

2.Can I find a THICKER alternative to the plexiglass? It's very thin...VERY thin.

You can get plexi in pretty much any thickness you like. Regular glass might be better for you, but it'll probably be more costly, too.

3.I could not find 3.5 and RC Should I stick with the r-13?

I'm confused by this one. It sounds like you're talking about 3 different building materials.

4.What can I use to seal the door/hinges?

You can get weatherstripping stuff at any hardware store. There's lots of different systems for this, but the big thing is to make sure the door is hung properly. If you're buying a pre-hung door, this will be easy. If you're building your own door, find someone who knows how to hang the door to help you out. If your door is right, it'll be a breeze to seal. You'll probably need a closer of some sort, but those are easy too.

What you describe for the wall construction will work fine, but there are better alternatives. The particle board isn't bad, but drywall is heavier and will give you better isolation. If you're going to be putting insulation between the studs, you might as well put both layers of wall-board (particle board or drywall or both) on the outside of the studs, and let the insulation soak up some sound for you.

I wouldn't worry about building up the floor (I assume this would be to float that floor) at all- for vocals, you won't be dealing with the sound-pressure levels that would require that kind of isolation. If you have a full marshall stack in there, loud enough that the tubes are melting, thats one thing, but I know I sure can't sing that loud.

Good luck!

Kase
www.minemusic.net

[puppethead5]

Hey thanks for your reply/help dymaxian I appreciate it. I have included a drawing of my room in jpeg format. The X is where I would like to place the booth. Everything inside of the green square is in the room. I have synths and modules on both sides and my console is in front of the window. I have a futon in back of the console and two doors lead in/out of the room. I know I want to keep the room as semetrical as possible thats why It's set up that way. I *cant* remove the window so I figure the best thing to do was to place the desk in front of it. The window opens from the right so it would be impossible for me to put the booth on the right. If I did that I'd never be able to open the window.

I'm confused by this one. It sounds like you're talking about 3 different building materials.

Yes they are 3 different materials but I was led to believe that it would be better if I used 3.5 and RC instead of r-13 or r-19 insulation.

You can get weatherstripping stuff at any hardware store. There's lots of different systems for this, but the big thing is to make sure the door is hung properly. If you're buying a pre-hung door, this will be easy. If you're building your own door, find someone who knows how to hang the door to help you out. If your door is right, it'll be a breeze to seal. You'll probably need a closer of some sort, but those are easy too.

Whats a "closer"? I've never heard of that, but I did plan on using magnets to allow the door to close once inside. Either that or a latch of some sorts. Is that what you mean by closer?

What you describe for the wall construction will work fine, but there are better alternatives. The particle board isn't bad, but drywall is heavier and will give you better isolation. If you're going to be putting insulation between the studs, you might as well put both layers of wall-board (particle board or drywall or both) on the outside of the studs, and let the insulation soak up some sound for you.

Are you suggesting that I ditch the particle board and get 5 more sheets? So it would be better to use dry wall first, then the studs, then the insulation between the studs,then the sound deadening board to cover the studs and insulation and finally a second layer of dry wall? If I'm wrong correct me.

I wouldn't worry about building up the floor (I assume this would be to float that floor) at all- for vocals, you won't be dealing with the sound-pressure levels that would require that kind of isolation. If you have a full marshall stack in there, loud enough that the tubes are melting, thats one thing, but I know I sure can't sing that loud.

I don't know what you mean by float the floor. I've seen teh term used on this board But I've never saw an explanation. Does that term describe a room or booth that you step *UP* and then into? If thats not it please explain it to me. All I was going to do was create four walls and use the same materials to create my floor and ceiling. If thats NOT correct please correct me.


Thanks for your advice and help. Have a nice weekend

Puppet

[dymaxian]

Greetings again!

Ok, I know what you mean when you mention RC and r-13 and r-19... what's the 3.5 refer to?

A door closer is a hydraulic or spring mechanism over the top of the door that will slowly swing it shut unless you're holding it open. It'll provide a little bit of pressure on your weatherstripping or whatever. If you're using magnets, that'll work without the closer.

I can't think of too many reasons that particle board would do more for you than drywall. If you make one layer of 5/8" and one layer of 1/2", there will be a great enough difference in resonant freq's.

The floating floor is a method of building up and extra floor system that 'floats' on neoprene pads, keeping sound vibrations from travelling thru the floor and into the next room thru the structure. And if the rest of your floor is not floated, then yes, you'd have to step up to it. Somewhere in your original post I thought you had mentioned something about building up the floor, and this is what I thought you meant. But as I said, for a vocal booth I wouldn't worry about it. If you're just going to build the floor and ceiling the same as the rest of your studio, that'll work.

The placement is fine, but you should build something about the same size on the other side of the mixing desk- whether its another room or just a false wall. If you don't, your stereo image may suffer from an assymetrical room.

Kase
www.minemusic.net

[puppethead5]

Hey dymaxian. Thanks for not making fun of my fine and priceless artwork! It was the best I could do in 10 minutes.


If I'm not mistaking 3.5 refers to the weight of fiberglass OR fiberglass batts. You mentioned door closure and pressure on the stripping. Is pressure "good" in my case or a big no no? I returned the particle board and purchased 5 sheets of 5/8 sheet rock. Correct me if I'm wrong but I need to go 5/8 sheetrock-->2x4 studs-->insulation (strongly considering thermafiber), sound deadening board-->1/2 rock. Heres what I need to know:

1.Should I create a leaf by using 5/8 and 1/2 and connect my studs to that? If so do the studs need to be connected to the 1/2 side or 5/8 side?


2.I'm using 2x4 as studs (couldnt find metal) will thermafiber still "work" if I have to really compress it? I was told by a guy at home depot that r-39 was the heaviest they stocked. He told me that the more you compress it, the more the insulation looses its R-value. Is this true?


3. I was going to build a 3x7 room and the space between that corner wall and the window is just under four feet. Will I still be faced with a problem if i move the booth to the left side of the futon?


4. How do I get the cables inside of the room without drilling holes? Do I buy some type of box that has mic connections on both sides,cut out a space for it, caulk and seal around the area?


#4 is the question I need answered the most. Once again thanks for your time and help. It's appreciated.


puppet

[knightfly]

I'm still doing my best to make some time for this, and still failing miserably - before I get too deep into custom answers, I need to know just how much isolation you need for your booth - do you need to be able to keep the monitor speakers on while tracking vocals/guitars and still not have any "bleed through", or are you just trying to get room noise (computer, etc) out of your vocal recordings? I ask this because the higher isolation you need, the harder it is to accomplish.

Also, I gather from a couple of your questions that you think Liquid nailz is a REPLACEMENT for real nails? Unfortunately, that's not the case. You will still need real fasteners - the main purpose of construction adhesive is to filll gaps, strengthen connections, and eliminate rattles/squeaks.

I've not been able to find a combination of dimensions within your range that will give anything close to a smooth response in a booth, so it's likely you will need to put absorption on all walls and ceilings to deaden the entire booth. Then you would add electronic reverb back at mix time. Whoever is doing the vocal tracks would likely do better if you add some reverb to their headphone mix (but not record it yet) - most people get freaked out with a totally dry sound.

Acoustically, there is no good place to put a booth in that small a room without compromising your mixing quality - however, behind you (with absorbent on its outside walls) is better than in front, where it will unbalance your stereo imaging. That would leave the two front corners for corner broadband traps (rockwool or rigid fiberglas diagonally across the corners) - depending on where that door in the corner goes, it might be able to be left partially open which would help act as a bass trap while mixing.

Let me know how much isolation you really need, and whether you have a friend or two who have some building experience... Steve

[puppethead5]

@Night I know how it is when you're on a busy schedule and have little or no time. I'm patiently waiting and still reading. I did assume Liquid nailz was a replacement...that was before I read your reply. I don't need to keep the monitor speakers on while tracking. If I notice a problem after playing back I'll simply have the artist retrack it. I want an iso for four reasons. The first being most clients in my area are "visual" people. They see a mic booth and start drooling all over the place. The second reason is to make the client feel at ease. The third reason is to make the vocals seem more "dead" and not filled with a lot of air/room. I know mic placement techniques will help but the vocal tracks can use the isolation. Last but not least I need it for guitar cabs.


I want to maintain a balance but I want less sound going out. If something sneaks in thats no problem but my main concern is not letting the sound sneak out. I want the room dry/dead but not 100% dead. I was thinking about building a 3x4x7 booth. I cant get away with a 3x5x7. I can probably get away with a 3x 4 1/2 x7 but that might be pushing it. For some reason I always felt this iso room was going to be behind me. Btw the door in the middle of the drawing leads to the bathroom. How about I put the booth in the bathroom?


Yes I have two friends who are familiar with building. The first guy will help me find all the right screws, clamps etc etc etc. He managed a hardware store (Hardware Unlimited) for over 6 Years and gets paid for a lot of side jobs. The second guy is a carpenter but he lives an hour away from me. I've been saving a lot of info from this site so both of them can look over it. If you have any questions or advice/terms they would understand feel free to lay it on me.


Thanks for your time.



puppet

[knightfly]

Puppet, if you're still around after all this down time, how about an update? For one thing, I just re-read your early posts and caught the sound board thing - if you can return that, you'd be better off with more sheet rock. Sound board isn't all it's cracked up to be, and costs more for less mass.

If you can't return it, put it on the studs with sheet rock over it - it won't be as good as two layers of sheet rock, but it's better than only one layer.

Let me know what else you still need to discuss... Steve

[puppethead55]

Hey nightfly this is puppethead5. I had to make a new account because my password would no longer work and the site is no longer sending mail to my aol account. Is there anyway the mods or myself can rectify this situation?


Concerning the vocal/iso booth I have not started construction yet. I've been reading a sheetrock book and waiting for this site to come back online. I did however find thermafiber and the guy who sold it to me has been really helpful. I need a couple of specific questions answered knightfly. They shouldn't be hard for a person with your expertise.

1. What do I use to connect the microphones to the outside world? Meaning what type of "box" do I install/build into the booth? I want to run the mics to the "box" and run the box to pro-tools.

2. Will 2x4x8 work or should I use 4x4x8 posts?

3. Do I need corner beads, RC or both?

4. What would I need to seal around the door?

5. The best I can do as far as measurements are 3x4x7, 3 and 1/2 x4x7 and 1/2. Those are my only options which should I go for? I need to keep the sound IN and could really care less about outside noise.


I have 90 days to return the sound deadening board. I will purchase 5 sheets of 1/2 sheetrock and each leaf will consist of 5/8 and 1/2 sheets. I thought the sound deadening board would be good because of the different material. If you say to take it back it goes back.



Thanks for all the help!


Puppet

[knightfly]

Started to answer this last nite, and got nowhere looking for the parts - finally found this

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm ... r=xlr+male

These would be mounted in standard electrical boxes (preferably the ones called "old work" boxes) which should NOT be mounted to studs but only to the wallboard, and the outside box should be offset by at least one stud cavity (cavities all filled with fiberglass insulation) and all boxes caulked thoroughly with butyl or acoustic rated caulk. Of course, your wiring should be done between boxes BEFORE you caulk - just leave about 6" extra wire at each end, caulk around the wire and any other holes, then install the jack plates. Putting extra fiberglass insulation inside the boxes won't hurt.

2. 2x4's are fine -

3. Corner bead for inside and outside corners definitely - the RC would be a waste of time and money IMO, because your door will be the weakest link in sound isolation. If you were going to use double doors with expensive ($300 each) seal kits, then using RC or even double frames would be worth doing. For isolating vox and guitar cabinets I really think the door would limit any gains the RC would give.

4. The least expensive way to do a door that actually works is to buy a pre-hung, exterior door and install it with total seals around the door frame, caulked and stuffed with insulation before installing wallboard around the door. For seals, one way is to mount a "step over" sill at the bottom and use foam weatherstrip all around the door. This is a slight pain to step over all the time, but the alternative costs about $300 PLUS the cost of the door.

5. Either of those dimensions will work, neither is optimal so you'll need to use quite a bit of absorption in the booth. I'd not go any smaller than you have to. Air to the booth may be a problem you need to solve if you keep the door closed for more than maybe 20 minutes at a time.

I would definitely return the sound deadening board, and get enough sheet rock to do a layer of 1/2" and a layer of 5/8" on each side of the 2x4 frame. You'll also need enough high density 3.5" insulation to fill all the stud cavities, including the ceiling. 2x4's will span just over 7 feet when placed on 24" centers, so get enough of them to also do the ceiling framing.

How we doing so far?? Steve