Hi
Me and my band were going to build a practice room in the back yard of one of our houses. I have a basic plan (see below). We need it to be near sound proof so the neighbors don’t complain. They will be about 25ft from the structure. My questions are-
1) How much sheet rock should go on each wall and ceiling to make an effective sound barer for my situation?
2) Will a concrete floor be good floor to not transmit sound?
3) For good acoustics how should I make ceiling? How high? Flat or V shaped or angled?
If you see any problems with my basic design let me know. We can get help constructing it from the bassist father how is retied from construction. So he be able to make should make shure we are constructing it right. We will build the structure from scratch and it will not be touching the house. Any help will me greatly appreciated.
Thanks
questions about building a practice room
-
tonavigate
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:48 pm
- Location: SF bay area
- Contact:
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
The good new is, you won't need to waste that much usable floor space to get good isolation. You WILL need to stay away from inside dimensions that are evenly divisible by each other, unless you like crappy sounding rooms that boom and make you want to quit playing -
We would need a general idea of budget, and accessibility by heavy equipment (backhoes, dump trucks, concrete trucks, concrete pumps, etc - Also, you would need to take whatever plans that come of this and have a local engineer's approval, etc - none of us are architects, but there are certain methods of building that we know WORK for sound proofing, acoustics, etc -
In your area, for example, earthquake construction would be a good thing, right? There is at least one method I know of that would work well in that regard, that's also very good for sound proofing.
So, budget, accessibility, and we can get started... Steve
We would need a general idea of budget, and accessibility by heavy equipment (backhoes, dump trucks, concrete trucks, concrete pumps, etc - Also, you would need to take whatever plans that come of this and have a local engineer's approval, etc - none of us are architects, but there are certain methods of building that we know WORK for sound proofing, acoustics, etc -
In your area, for example, earthquake construction would be a good thing, right? There is at least one method I know of that would work well in that regard, that's also very good for sound proofing.
So, budget, accessibility, and we can get started... Steve
-
dymaxian
- Senior Member
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:21 am
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
practice room design
Hey there!
If you have a local construction veteran there helping you, I'd guess that a) you guys have some advice on how much this will cost, and b) you have help with local construction concerns, like the earthquake-proof-ness Steve mentioned.
The concrete floor will be fine with a free-standing building. If it was attached to your house, or some other building, then a continuous concrete floor would help transmit sound, but with this you'll be fine.
Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd offer these 3 suggestions to you...
First, Ethan Winer has a web page with a lot of acoustic advice on it, but in particular he has a handy little chart that shows some length x width x height ratios for a room. We use these so that bass freq's don't build up evenly between the 3 parallel surfaces. Speaking of parallel surfaces, try to make 2 of the walls off-kilter so that you don't have any. If you're planning on having a 1'6 space between the outer and inner walls, you have the space to afford to do this.
Anyway, have a look at this:
http://www.recording.org/users/acoustics/#symmetry
If it doesn't take you to the spot in this page, click on the Table of Contents to the right, where it says Room Sizes and Shapes.
At the same time, I wouldn't get TOO hung up on this... The closer you are to one of the 'ideal' ratios, the less your room will boom at particular notes. You're not asking if you should build a perfect cube, so you're ahead of the game there.
Just as an example, if I run your 25' length against the 3rd set of ratios, the best average width would be just over 17', and the height would be around 10'. And these are average sizes, too - if you kick your walls out-of-parallel that'll make a huge difference, too.
While you're there, read the rest of Ethan's page. Good stuff.
Second, if your budget permits it, build the outer wall out of concrete block or the ICF that Steve suggested to me. Again, this depends on the cost. If you end up using a studwall on the outside, just make sure that the outside is sheathed heavily (exterior drywall or plywood, and make it as heavy as you can afford...) The more weight you can put on that outside wall, the better.
Third, the way I'd construct that inner wall would be to build the frame as it lies on the ground, put the drywall on the back side of it (which will face the outer wall) and THEN tip it into place- this is John Sayer's inside-out wall construction. If you leave enough space between this and the outer wall (it doesn't have to be 18 inches, tho) you'll have plenty of sound isolation, and then you'll have the studs on the inside facing you... All you'd need to do is put rigid fiberboard across the inside face of the studs, and each stud-space becomes a bass-trap. There's plenty of threads here about acoustic treatment, but considering this is a rehearsal studio, I'd recommend to soak up as much sound as you can here- not just high freq's, but as much of the spectrum as you can. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it'd help your ears out while you're playing; if the drums don't seem as loud from the room reflections, you won't have to crank your amps up. Of course, you may need to play LOUDER to compensate, so the board veterans might disagree. If they do, listen to them.
Anyway, this may not be the best way to build a recording or mixing room, but if you're just after a good practice space, this should treat you well.
Good luck!
Kase
www.minemusic.net
If you have a local construction veteran there helping you, I'd guess that a) you guys have some advice on how much this will cost, and b) you have help with local construction concerns, like the earthquake-proof-ness Steve mentioned.
The concrete floor will be fine with a free-standing building. If it was attached to your house, or some other building, then a continuous concrete floor would help transmit sound, but with this you'll be fine.
Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd offer these 3 suggestions to you...
First, Ethan Winer has a web page with a lot of acoustic advice on it, but in particular he has a handy little chart that shows some length x width x height ratios for a room. We use these so that bass freq's don't build up evenly between the 3 parallel surfaces. Speaking of parallel surfaces, try to make 2 of the walls off-kilter so that you don't have any. If you're planning on having a 1'6 space between the outer and inner walls, you have the space to afford to do this.
Anyway, have a look at this:
http://www.recording.org/users/acoustics/#symmetry
If it doesn't take you to the spot in this page, click on the Table of Contents to the right, where it says Room Sizes and Shapes.
At the same time, I wouldn't get TOO hung up on this... The closer you are to one of the 'ideal' ratios, the less your room will boom at particular notes. You're not asking if you should build a perfect cube, so you're ahead of the game there.
Just as an example, if I run your 25' length against the 3rd set of ratios, the best average width would be just over 17', and the height would be around 10'. And these are average sizes, too - if you kick your walls out-of-parallel that'll make a huge difference, too.
While you're there, read the rest of Ethan's page. Good stuff.
Second, if your budget permits it, build the outer wall out of concrete block or the ICF that Steve suggested to me. Again, this depends on the cost. If you end up using a studwall on the outside, just make sure that the outside is sheathed heavily (exterior drywall or plywood, and make it as heavy as you can afford...) The more weight you can put on that outside wall, the better.
Third, the way I'd construct that inner wall would be to build the frame as it lies on the ground, put the drywall on the back side of it (which will face the outer wall) and THEN tip it into place- this is John Sayer's inside-out wall construction. If you leave enough space between this and the outer wall (it doesn't have to be 18 inches, tho) you'll have plenty of sound isolation, and then you'll have the studs on the inside facing you... All you'd need to do is put rigid fiberboard across the inside face of the studs, and each stud-space becomes a bass-trap. There's plenty of threads here about acoustic treatment, but considering this is a rehearsal studio, I'd recommend to soak up as much sound as you can here- not just high freq's, but as much of the spectrum as you can. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it'd help your ears out while you're playing; if the drums don't seem as loud from the room reflections, you won't have to crank your amps up. Of course, you may need to play LOUDER to compensate, so the board veterans might disagree. If they do, listen to them.
Anyway, this may not be the best way to build a recording or mixing room, but if you're just after a good practice space, this should treat you well.
Good luck!
Kase
www.minemusic.net
-
tonavigate
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:48 pm
- Location: SF bay area
- Contact:
Actually a concrete floor might be out of are budget. We are going to have a discussion about it this weekend but I would say are budget will be around $1500-2000. We where going to first build the out side wall testing it and see if that will be quiet enough for the neighbors. If not we will build a second wall. No need doing work we do not have to. It dos not need to be perfect just enough so the neighbors can live with it. Sounds like 25’ by 17 with 10 foot ceiling would be a good idea. I will get back with more after the weekend with more thanks for your help.
-
dymaxian
- Senior Member
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:21 am
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Keep in mind that "add-on" sound-proofing is the worst way to spend your money - you're much better off figuring your budget and then doing the best you can afford, all in one shot. Otherwise, you can actually REDUCE the isolation as you add materials.
Soon as you get a better idea of budget (and what construction is allowed in earthquake country) let us know... Steve
Soon as you get a better idea of budget (and what construction is allowed in earthquake country) let us know... Steve