You guys are the GREATEST - But Let's be Reasonable :)

[ENIGMACODE]

Hello to John & Everyone!

I've communicated before with John, and others on Home Recording Dot Com, and everyone has been really great in offering advice, and information in regard to 'Home-Built' Studios ........ where else can you get soooo much GOOD RESEARCHED DATA?!

After participating in so many discussions, I've come to realize that while there has been so much good advice, many times questions about specific issues lead the Home Builder on a never-ending, impossible quest to meet his meager accomplishment.

I suppose I should trust my own building skills, and proceed without further haste to build my simple 'all purpose recording recording room' ???

BUT

I would LOVE to first wrap up some inquisitive loose ends, and get the final blessing from the Big Guys out here ......... or am I asking for another punishment? kidding

Uploaded JPG Drawings:
My diagrams have not been drawn to the accuracy of some of John's - BUT hopefully they will do ......

I will start with this overview:
Please bear in mind that this construction project is for the purpose
of creating one 'all-purpose' irregularly shaped recording/rehearsal room to be built within the basement of a tiny 2-bedroom row home - IT'S ONLY A HOBBY .....
http://www.locationstudio.net/new.jpg
My main concern will be 'Reflection', and secondarily 'Isolation'
The following photos (in-progress) will hopefully give the raw diagrams a little more clarity:
http://locationstudio.net/angled-door.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/exit-wall.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/gar-wall.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/steps.jpg

The Floor:
I've already laid down (hammer gunned), pressure-treated 2X6's on leveled concrete, and 3/4" Plywood will follow - screwed and glued to the runners as a sub floor.
http://locationstudio.net/runners.jpg

Parallel Walls:
I understand the importance of NON- PARALLEL walls, and perhaps I can incorporate a few .....

Saving Money from Expensive Auralex Products:
I'd like to SAVE money in regard to building my own bass traps, and line the walls with some type of FOAM covered with fabric (further details below)
http://www.locationstudio.net/in-wall.jpg

Ventilation:
You may see that the only type of ventilation is from an Air Conditioner that will unfortunately pierce through a 2 wall constructed outside wall - but it will have a Removable Sound Barrier Cover used during the winter months ......
http://www.locationstudio.net/new.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/gar-wall.jpg

Remaining Questions holding up Construction:
I still have some questions which are preventing me from continuing construction - they should not be difficult to answer:

Gasket Material:
I planned on laying 2X4 wall plates down on the floor, with gaskets between them, and the 3/4" Plywood sub floor. I'd like to use this same gasket material, also as an insulator where the Ceiling Joists are fastened to the top of the walls.
(any ideas on where or what to use for gasket material?)

Inner Wall Construction:
I planned on facing the Inner Walls with some type of foam or fiber insulation (for reflection), (details below).
With this in mind, what type of wallboard should I use?
5/8" Drywall - 1/2" Drywall - Homasote?
http://www.locationstudio.net/in-wall.jpg


Inner Wall Treatment:
(Studio Side) - I've read where some guys have had luck in applying a product called 703 (ceiling tiles), with the vinyl layer peeled off, or some other type of Fiberglass or Foam attached directly to the Inner Walls, then covered with a fabric and framed with 1x3's
Here are a few photos of a similarly constructed wall:
http://www.locationstudio.net/live4.jpg
http://www.locationstudio.net/roland3.jpg

Outside Wall Treatment:
Since this is a room within a room, I'd like to know if I need to have drywall on the other side of some of the newly constructed walls? Hopefully not, so that it will not be necessary for me to stagger the studs
http://www.locationstudio.net/top.jpg
http://www.locationstudio.net/heater.jpg

Fiberglass Insulation stuffed inside the walls:
Is 3 1/2" of fiberglass insulation in the INNER walls sufficient? And as asked above, is it OK to just simply leave the Outside Walls exposed (leaving the insulation exposed)
http://www.locationstudio.net/top.jpg

Thanks to everyone ……..
Feel Free to email me:
Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
rocknroll@ucwphilly.rr.com

[knightfly]

Frederic already answered some of the questions in your "cookie cutter" post over at HR - if you will take the time and initiative to read through the "stickies" section at the top of this forum, it will answer most of them. Then, once YOU'VE made some effort, I'll be glad to help with any "leftovers"... Steve

[ENIGMACODE]

Steve/knightfly –thank you for your response and suggestion that I read all the pertinent John Sayers posts before I ask any further questions – actually I’ve been an avid reader of all these posts, and I just thought perhaps I could cut to the quick onto specific suggestions that I may get from you guys, based on the nature and limited scope of my particular project?

I highly respect all of you who are totally dedicated to this craft. Again, my only quest here is to break out of this quagmire, and move ahead – please remember I have Limited Space, and this project is only a Hobby limiting me to cheaper resources, and requiring me only to get reasonable results that would address issues more in regard to reflection, than to isolation.

Steve/knightfly – you mentioned previously:
“you will need for your particular project (unless you're more of a mathematician than I am) is to experiment - you want the total weight of ALL the floated stuff to cause the rubber to compress by at LEAST 15%, possibly 20 - this includes EVERYTHING that will be supported by the rubber - floor, walls if they're floated on the floor, ceiling if it's supported by the floated walls, console, drums, EVERYTHING that is pressing down on that rubber must be figured in.”
It is for this reason that I’ve opted to stay away from any type of complex formulated cushioning on the bare concrete……… however I will use copious amounts of construction glue between the 2x6 treated runners and the ¾” Plywood fastened to them……
http://locationstudio.net/runners.jpg


And in regard to:
“Mineral wool is a better option plus it is water resistant, mold and fungi resistant, etc....”
From this, I understand that the intent is to completely FILL the voids between the runners with Mineral Wool? Well although I do NOT currently have a moisture problem, wouldn’t Styrofoam Nuggets be better? Less absorption?
I’ll go by whatever you guys say……… Mineral Wool or Styrofoam Nuggets?
http://locationstudio.net/runners.jpg


Other Remaining Questions holding up Construction:
Gasket Material:
I planned on laying 2X4 wall plates down on the floor, with gaskets between them, and the 3/4" Plywood Sub floor. I'd like to use this same gasket material, also as an insulator where the Ceiling Joists are fastened to the top of the walls.
(any ideas on where or what to use for gasket material?)
Someone on John Sayers said 1/2" Neoprene?
Does it really have to be ½” - perhaps I misundertood?


The following additional photos (in-progress) will hopefully give
the raw diagrams a little more meaning:
http://locationstudio.net/angled-door.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/exit-wall.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/gar-wall.jpg
http://locationstudio.net/steps.jpg

As always I really appreciate ALL your Help!
Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
rocknroll@ucwphilly.rr.com

[knightfly]

Michael, sorry if I came across as a grump - this "gig" just takes a lot more time than I bargained for sometimes, so I don't often have enough time to regurgitate everything every time a member starts a new project.

Since your runners are already down, I would fill between them with rockwool. Styrofoam is closed cell, so would do very little for absorption or damping of the floor. One thing you could do, if you want an even quieter floor, is to put a layer of sheet rock between two layers of plywood - this would decrease boominess more than just the rockwool - if you used Homasote in the center instead of the sheet rock, it would give a mild "floating" effect, but if you're not concerned with isolation I wouldn't do it.

You didn't show construction detail on your 10" thick garage door "plug", but if you're going to penetrate that with some kind of HVAC unit we need to talk about that in terms of noise and isolation too.

"Gasket Material:
I planned on laying 2X4 wall plates down on the floor, with gaskets between them, and the 3/4" Plywood Sub floor. I'd like to use this same gasket material, also as an insulator where the Ceiling Joists are fastened to the top of the walls.
(any ideas on where or what to use for gasket material?)
Someone on John Sayers said 1/2" Neoprene? " -

I wouldn't use ANY gasketing under wall plates, unless the floor is so uneven it will allow the plate to vibrate against the floor. Otherwise, just use a good bead of acoustic caulk along the edges of the floor plates/caps before each layer of wallboard. Check the "complete section" out for tips on spacers, caulking, etc. Using 1/4" rubber between top plates and ceiling joists is OK, but any fasteners that penetrate both will flank noise from walls into the ceiling frame, then into the rest of the house. I'm working on some DIY versions of non-contact wall sway brackets, hopefully have them in a few days (getting really behind in necessary household functions again)

The only place 1/2" neoprene should be used is in floating a floor, where you need the compression room without "bottoming out" - in vibration control, the thickness of material is as important as the type of material. The wrong thickness may not work, or it can even AMPLIFY the problem frequencies.

Speaking of which, I had an email conversation with Jeff Szymanski, the Chief Acoustics Engineer for Auralex earlier today - he actually ASKED if it would be OK for him to post here, rather than just joining and doing it - didn't want to seem pushy - Very classy and a gentleman IMO, same as his demeanor on other boards -

Anyway, Jeff pointed out that Neoprene has a typical life of maybe 10-15 years, whereas EPDM has 3 to 5 times that - one of the reasons Auralex U-Boats are made of EPDM instead of neoprene. Similar Durometer ratings for similar footprints. Costs more, but who wants to re-build a studio every 10 years when you can be USING it instead?

BTW, your marked up pix help a lot - that's a great way to communicate intentions... Steve

[ENIGMACODE]

"Since your runners are already down, I would fill between them with rockwool. Styrofoam is closed cell, so would do very little for absorption or damping of the floor"

10-4 ROGER
(Now we're gettin somewhere - we're rockin!)

"I wouldn't use ANY gasketing under wall plates"
10-4 ROGER
I just thought everybody did that?

"Using 1/4" rubber between top plates and ceiling joists is OK"
And so you would RECOMMEND this - yes? As opposed to Not doing it?
I believe Frederic suggested a type of rubber to me - and perhaps where I could get it?

"You didn't show construction detail on your 10" thick garage door "plug", but if you're going to penetrate that with some kind of HVAC unit we need to talk about that in terms of noise and isolation too"
Thanx Steve - we'll talk
http://locationstudio.net/ac-thru-wall.jpg < Thru wall AC

"BTW, your marked up pix help a lot"
More to come:
http://locationstudio.net/new.jpg < Main Overview diagram

http://locationstudio.net/front-p.jpg < Front - Photo
http://locationstudio.net/front-house.jpg < Front - Diagram

http://locationstudio.net/old-garage-2-p.jpg < Garage - Photo
http://locationstudio.net/old-garage-p.jpg < Garage - Photo
http://locationstudio.net/garage-door.jpg < Garage - Diagram

http://locationstudio.net/steps-landing-p.jpg < Steps - Photo
http://locationstudio.net/steps-door-landing.jpg < Steps - Diagram

http://locationstudio.net/non-parallel-p.jpg < Non-Parallel Wall Photo
http://locationstudio.net/non-parallel-close.jpg < Non-Parallel Diagram

*These images illustrate some of the things I discussed above in previous sections of my post .....

I invite everyone to take a another look and, I welcome all comments ....

Thanx again Steve! (hope to hear back from you)

Best Regards
Michael Fraticelli
rocknroll@ucwphilly.rr.com

[knightfly]

Michael, check out the end of the "sticky" "Complete Section" thread... Steve