On Purpose Productions detached garage studio

[onpurposeproductions]

I don't think this horse is dead yet. I can still feel it kicking me in the yeehaa!!

[xSpace]

Other things to consider are loading the trusses too much. Do you guys get snow in Ontario? It is part of what you have to consider. Doesn't matter if it is once a year:) Loading the roof up with mass and then loading the outside with snow...it's getting heavy now!

I'm going to get off the horse too. Roof ventilation is a requirement for the building to remain stable and to keep the occupants healthy. Gable end, soffit and ridge vents are not a mistake. If you stop up one end you short circuit the ability for the flow to do it's job. It's not just about shingle burn.


Edit:
Unvented Roof Design

[onpurposeproductions]

Edit:
Unvented Roof Design

Yes! Nice find xSpace!

I also found this company's page really informative;

http://www.advancedinsulationinc.com/ne ... efault.htm

I found this quote within the text;

"When you make the choice to go to an unvented attic with cathedralized insulation you will pay more for insulation than you would have with a more conventional insulation package"

Sounds like studio construction to me.

I'm guessing nobody in this forum has built an unvented roof assembly with sprayed insulation? Any thoughts on challenges/problems/weaknesses?

[onpurposeproductions]

Do you guys get snow in Ontario?

Oh man.....that'd be funny if the frost bite didn't hurt so much.

[onpurposeproductions]

I found this spray foam company in Toronto (near me) called Spray Foam Coatings. It seems their best product is called Enerthane 2000 which has a field density of 2.0 lbs per cubic foot. They don't say its closed cell but on the spec sheet (downloadable pdf) they say the '% open cell content' is 2.78%. I'm guessing that means it is closed cell?

They have two videos on their site. The first one wasn't great but the second one I found really informative and thought it'd be worth linking to;

http://www.sprayfoamcoatings.com/content/view/36/29/

One thing I'd be worried about if I applied this to my outer walls is how well we could control the amount it bulged out past the studs. It can be trimmed off to make it flush with the studs but then you're looking a wasting product...expensive product. I was only going to have a 1" gap between the outer wall studs and inner wall studs.

Also, I read somewhere online (an amateur) who suggested that the heavy density foams could possibly put enough stress on the structure to warp or even break members of it.

This stuff seems awesome for ensuring an air tight seal on the outer structure, I'm really afraid of finding out what it will cost though. I'm wondering whether I could use standard glass batts in the majority of areas with the sprayed foam just going in the ceiling and hard to insulate areas of the walls?

Just thinking as I type.....

~Greg~

[AVare]

This stuff seems awesome for ensuring an air tight seal on the outer structure

If it provides an air tight seal it is closed cell and/or self skinning. Neither is good for sound absorption.

Andre

[onpurposeproductions]

If it provides an air tight seal it is closed cell and/or self skinning. Neither is good for sound absorption.

Yes, I've been starting to think about exactly that - no transfer of acoustic energy to heat, or at least not enough. I've been starting to feel that this stuff should only go on the ceiling and maybe in some odd shaped gaps in the walls (i.e. corners, etc), if at all?

On the ceiling, if I put two layers of drywall up in between the ceiling joists and then spray this foam over that, will moisture then permeate the roofing into the drywall and get stuck there?

It certainly is challenging trying to learn about building principles while not being able to trust your building expert's advice because he doesn't really understand the acoustic implications. But I know I'm preaching to the choir on that one.

If I was going back to standard fiberglass insulation everywhere, what's the best acoustically transparent means of keeping the bats up in the ceiling joists?

[WayneD]

If I was going back to standard fiberglass insulation everywhere, what's the best acoustically transparent means of keeping the bats up in the ceiling joists?

Staples?

Sorry, couldn't help it!


Some have used wire, fabric and wire, there are many ways to keep the stuff up there. Staples on the stuff with a vapor barrier. Don"t forget to leave an access point. Not that that is really that important.

You know Greg, there are some styrofoam channels shaped like -__- (connect the hi with the low) and they come in 4' lengths and are inexpensive. They are mounted to the roof sheathing with staples and you can put insulation over them. They keep the venting from eave to ridge open. They are available at Home Depot or your local Canadian equivalent. PITA to install as you have to get near the eave side but worth it. Something to look into.




W

[onpurposeproductions]

You know Greg, there are some styrofoam channels shaped like -__-

That looks like RC channel, but styrofoam?

Actually on second thought, if I wasn't going the sprayed foam route at all I would probably consider the more standard approach that xSpace suggested as long as the reduced ceiling height was manageable.

Man, its all a wee bit overwhelming!

First things first. I need to clear everything out of the garage. That's tomorrows job!

[xSpace]

Do you guys get snow in Ontario?

Oh man.....that'd be funny if the frost bite didn't hurt so much.

Right. My point exactly. The weight can pile on and all you have to do is be there.

[WayneD]

You know Greg, there are some styrofoam channels shaped like -__-

That looks like RC channel, but styrofoam?

Actually on second thought, if I wasn't going the sprayed foam route at all I would probably consider the more standard approach that xSpace suggested as long as the reduced ceiling height was manageable.

Man, its all a wee bit overwhelming!

First things first. I need to clear everything out of the garage. That's tomorrows job!

Kinda looks like RC, but think of the raised, or lower part at about 14" plus or minus wide. Very handy and lightweight material. It won't make you itch.

I understand the overwhelming info feeling. I am just glad other folks do that as it makes me think. And sometimes make the decision I don't want to make, but it is the right one.



W

[onpurposeproductions]

Well, I got a little bit of work accomplished on the garage over the weekend, a lot of painting in the house, and a reasonable amount of contemplating the design of my outer leaf, specifically the ceiling.

I took down a shelving unit and cabinet from one of the side walls and I took down the insulation that had been installed in the back 1/3 of the garage. I cleared out a bunch of stuff to a shed in the backyard and to the local dump.

I've attached pics to prove my claims of such incredible progress!! The cabinet was to the right of the electrical panel and the 7' shelf was next to that.

Exciting I know....

Next post will deal with my current thoughts on beefing the ceiling.

~Greg~

[onpurposeproductions]

My most recent thought about ceiling design is to follow the more standard approach (suggested by xSpace) of beefing up the bottom of the current joists as my outer leaf with two layers of drywall and fiberglass.

The inner leaf ceiling would then go below this, also with insulation and two layers of drywall.

This would sacrifice the great potential for bass trapping in the attic space and possibly leave me slightly less headroom in the final rooms. I'd also be saying goodbye for good to any hopes of a vaulted ceiling in the LR . But it seems to be the simplest, most affordable and most practical solution.

QUESTION

1. Will those current 2x4 ceiling joists support the load of two layers of drywall (probably 5/8") and the insulation? (See pic) I'll talk to my contractor about it but was wondering what everyone's best guess was?

Thanks to frequentseas' posting his source for backer rod in his thread from last year I've found a fantastic local source for both backer rod and Tremco acoustical chalk. 3/8" backer rod for 2.3 cents per foot!! And 300ml tubes of Tremco acoustical caulk for $3.00!

frequentseas' post;

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... rio#p63374

Material source in Mississauga, Ontario;

http://www.constructiondepot.com

~Greg~

[xSpace]

Sharward's Studio - Partial Garage Conversion

This part of the thread picks up with what Keith went through to do the framing. It's current information aided by Knightfly, Rod and much more valuable input.

It's worth the read because it is what you are facing.

[onpurposeproductions]

Thanks xSpace, I'm going to try to skim read through his whole thread.

Yeah, sealing out moisture from the slab is likely going to be my biggest non-sound related challenge. When I cleared out stuff from the garage this past weekend there was quite a bit of wetness on the west side, which is the wall with the electrical panel (garage faces north). That side has the foundation built up with cinder blocks because the grade slopes up on that side (see pic). Its been dry ever since that day but I'm glad I saw how wet it can get cause it was pretty bad. I meant to take a picture that day but didn't get around to it. The attached pic shows it dry (mostly).

You can see that there is a vapor barrier installed below (and behind presumably) the current stud wall. It all seems to have been done properly (to my untrained eye), which means I should be able to start beefing up those walls immediately without worrying about moisture infiltrating the drywall. The second pic attached shows the fact that there's no cinder blocks on the east side, but the vapor barrier is installed there as well as a thin foam underlay.

My plan is to hopefully get drywall, caulk and backer rod and start installing the beef in the stud cavities on the east, south and west walls, except for the cavities closest to the garage door - leaving them for the same time I do up the door itself. I was a trade painter for a handful of years and a general rule in painting is to work from ceiling down, but the ceiling beef will have to wait until I get structural confirmation, if not longer.