On Purpose Productions detached garage studio

[onpurposeproductions]

Hello all,

I had my first thread posted in the design forum and got some great advice that led to a design that I'm feeling really good about. You can check it out here;

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =1&t=11440

Whether I feel ready or not I've got to get moving on the construction phase.

First pic is of the current layout in sketchup. I'll post the pics of the interior of the garage with questions in successive posts;

Layout Summary:

- Live room on the left with the studio entrance and two windows. Dimensions = 8' x 8' 4" x 16' 9"
- Control room with dimensions ratio 1 : 1.25 : 1.56
- Vocal Booth (about 3' 8" x 7' 8"
- Storage closet (next to vocal booth)
- Equipment room/storage/amp booth

[onpurposeproductions]

And on to my very first pics!!!

Descriptions of each in order;

1. Electrical sub-panel running from the house main - 100 amp service. Plenty of breakers for what I need, I believe.

2. A shot of the rafters. I'm still looking at the possibility to vault the ceiling just in the live room, though I doubt that finances will allow.

3. Back side of the garage. The door on this wall will be the main entrance. Windows will have new panes put in to get at least close to the isolation of the rest of the wall - not sure what thickness that will need to be yet. Previous owner had insulation installed just in the back 1/3 of the garage. He had tarps sectioning this area off as a workshop. I'll be removing the insulation to beef up the outer walls.

4. Front of the garage. Door will stay in place to maintain exterior look. I'll remove hardware and will seal up the door and beef it up to be comparable to the rest of the outer leaf. Rod gave advice on how this could be done in another post which I'll probably follow.

Next post will have questions with related pics.

[Soundman2020]

Did you figure out how to beef up that garage door yet? That's going to be "fun"!

[onpurposeproductions]

Did you figure out how to beef up that garage door yet? That's going to be "fun"!

Rod posted the following in another thread;

if you were to face the back of the door with a protective membrane - perhaps a 6 or 8 mil poly - which could be temporarily attached with a spray adhesive - and then frame a wall inside of that which was slightly higher and wider than the door - (the door can be locked to the original frame with metal Z clips) and then seal and one layer of drywall over the new frame........... in fact - di it with a backwards frame and gain the air space for added iso.

whew......... you could then take between the door and the new drywall and completely fill it with expansive foam - something in a 3 to 4pcf capacity.......

This way the door, and the drywall would become one assembly and one leaf.

I'm going to see if a buddy of mine can help me tackle this myself. I'd probably try to build an extra thin wall using 2x2s as close to the door as possible. Any thoughts on a brand of spray foam with at least 3 pounds per cubic foot available in Ontario, Canada?

[onpurposeproductions]

And the questions, each with a pic......

1. This first pic shows the roofing nails protruding through the ceiling. Before I attempt to beef up with drywall would it be best that I try to flatten the portion of nail that is protruding. I'm afraid if I don't then the drywall might push some of the nails out of the roofing (maybe not likely but...)

2. Next is a vent cut into the ceiling for letting out excess heat. I'm assuming that I have to seal this up - so long as there's no fire regulation that would be breaking? (haven't asked my contractor about that yet).

3. Finally, I don't think I understand how/where I need to install backer rod while beefing up the outer leaf (in between studs). It seems to me that if I make accurate cuts with the drywall (or my contractor does) then they should fit snugly between the studs with minimal gaps, which would only require chalking. Am I missing something?

Thanks!!

[onpurposeproductions]

3. Finally, I don't think I understand how/where I need to install backer rod while beefing up the outer leaf (in between studs). It seems to me that if I make accurate cuts with the drywall (or my contractor does) then they should fit snugly between the studs with minimal gaps, which would only require chalking. Am I missing something?

Well - I just found this great discussion in another thread. I had looked before but didn't find anything that really answered my questions. I'm still not totally sure what I'll do but I at least understand the issue now;

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... oor#p58537

[WayneD]

I believe that ridge vent, it looks as though you have one, and the other vent will allow air to move through the structure. This is to keep moisture low. I was told that ventilation is extremely important as it will help keep molds and mildew in control. That stuff can wreck your wood and make you sick. Check with your construction guru. Nice space to work in though.

W

[xSpace]

And the questions, each with a pic......

1. This first pic shows the roofing nails protruding through the ceiling. Before I attempt to beef up with drywall would it be best that I try to flatten the portion of nail that is protruding. I'm afraid if I don't then the drywall might push some of the nails out of the roofing (maybe not likely but...)

2. Next is a vent cut into the ceiling for letting out excess heat. I'm assuming that I have to seal this up - so long as there's no fire regulation that would be breaking? (haven't asked my contractor about that yet).

You are going to beef up the roof?

The roof vent is in place to allow heat to flow out but is also part of the ventilation for the roofing. Heat build up in the roof/attic shortens the life of the shingle, so this is one method to reduce heat build up. This same heat that gets trapped in the attic will move towards the cold side of the barrier.

In part, what happens when you beef up the truss rafters, is that you eliminate this cavity for air to flow through. Not only will this shorten the life of the shingle, heat build up can warp the plywood that is under the shingle. This same heat will have a direct path to your room. Maybe it will only get access to the "air" part of the m-a-m, it is still heat moving towards the cooler area. This is where mold and mildew can exist.

Maybe another option would be to look into adding mass to the bottoms of the joists. Then have a ceiling built on top of the new walls in your room. It is one of the areas that requires much attention in order to satisfy the needs of the studio build while retaining the requirements of the existing structure.

Hope this helps...really:)

[onpurposeproductions]

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for that input. I'll talk to my contractor about it.

Thing is....its a massive hole in my outer leaf. Maybe sealing it up and utilizing a de-humidifier would be the better compromise? Anyone else gone this route?

[onpurposeproductions]

Maybe another option would be to look into adding mass to the bottoms of the joists. Then have a ceiling built on top of the new walls in your room. It is one of the areas that requires much attention in order to satisfy the needs of the studio build while retaining the requirements of the existing structure.

I had thought of that but was thinking I would save more overhead height if I made the actual roof the outer leaf. And having the large air space (in the rafters) would work pretty well as a bass trap.

Hmmm....well now you have me thinking. BLAST!! I'll have to take a look in the morning and see if I can visualize how much headroom I'd likely be losing.

I said in my last post that I might use a de-humidifier.......not going to be much good unless its actually in the sealed attic!!

Thanks for the suggestion xSpace.

[WayneD]

No problem onpurpose, just sharing a concern that was shared with me. This forum is good for that.

W

[Soundman2020]

Hey there onpurpose: I'm just thinking out loud here, and I have two kind of "off-the-wall" ideas that maybe the experts could comment on:

1) I'm wondering if you might not be able to treat that vent something like you'll treat your HVAC, with a long, kinked duct to the outside world? After all, we seal up our control rooms and live rooms airtight, then we poke a hole in them that leads directly to the outside, and we call that "ventilation". But of course we do it right, so that it does not affect the isolation too much. So it occurs to me that maybe the same possibility exists for your ridge vent? I'm not sure here, since leaving that "hole" there might break the "spring" part of the MSM equation, but it seems to me that if you make the acoustic impedance high enough with a long twisty duct, then it might still retain enough of a seal to work. But that's an issue for the acoustic experts to comment on. Shoot me down, guys!

2) If "Plan 'A'" above won't work, then here's "Plan 'B'": How about if you install some kind of tightly sealed remotely operated "door" on your vent, which you can open when the studio is NOT in use? I mean, I'm assuming that you don't plan to run your studio 24 hours per day, so you can leave that vent open when you are not using the studio, and only seal it up when you actually need it. Perhaps even put an extractor fan in it to get even better ventilation the rest of the time, and connect both the "door" control and the fan to your master switch in the studio, but wired through a relay that works backwards, such that when you turn your studio master ON, then the "door" closes up tight and the fan turns off. When you turn your studio master OFF, then the extractor fan comes on and the door opens. That way, you get the best of both worlds: an airtight seal when you need it, and also good ventilation for your roof space the rest of the time. And you get to keep that treat bass-trapping space!


Just a couple of ideas that might get you thinking...


- Stuart -

[onpurposeproductions]

Thanks guys.

Stuart, those both seem like really good reasonable ideas to me. Regarding the first one; I hadn't been thinking much at all about HVAC ducting of any kind since I'm really hoping to use a ductless mini-split system. However, I do need to figure out how to get heating, cooling and ventilation - but that's another story all together. Come on Mitsubishi!! 3in1, surely it can be done!

For the second; I guess I'd have to be able to make sure the door kept operating properly and if it didn't, be able to service it - which I could probably do from the roof?

I'll have to give this vent some serious thought.....


P.S. I'm going to try to put my name at the end of posts. I wanted my business name to be my screen name since my presence on this forum is about it, but I don't like being completely anonymous.

So....I'm Greg!

[WayneD]

Still on the vent thing, I take it you are trying to use the truss level of your space as part of the room/leaves right? So, some if not all of the joist bays will need to ventilate between the ridge vent and the eaves.

I am not sure how you see that space as contributing to the MAM. Since you are not going to rebuild the trusses to "vault" the ceiling, I would see that area as access for utilities (HVAC, electric etc). And build everything under the trusses. Or, am I missing something.

Also, why not replace the garage door with doors that open out? Would that not free up space? Could your budget absorb that, that is the question.

Just thinking out loud as venting has been an issue with my space and my home. Seems it was not done very well and I am finding its effects.

W

[onpurposeproductions]

I take it you are trying to use the truss level of your space as part of the room/leaves right?

That's what I had been thinking, yes.

So, some if not all of the joist bays will need to ventilate between the ridge vent and the eaves.

This is where I believe I am starting to understand certain realities that I just haven't been clued into previously. I guess the question is how much ventilation is absolutely necessary. Prematurely wearing shingles I can deal with. Having the truss joists warp wouldn't be so good. Mold and mildew would be really not so good. Our climate here can vary quite a bit in terms of humidity. Can be quite humid in the summer but is often very dry in the winter (which seems to last half the year ).

I am not sure how you see that space as contributing to the MAM.

This is what I was in the process of figuring out since it will determine how and what I beef up (which I need to start soon). I had thought I would essentially extend the walls up to meet the angled ceiling (see pic below). I'd then beef up those extended walls and sloped ceiling to create my outer leaf. I see now that this would create a major ventilation problem.

Also, why not replace the garage door with doors that open out?

I'm hoping to maintain the exterior street appearance.

Just thinking out loud

Thanks for doing so - really!