hi! i'm new here, and thank you John! i really need this right now.
i am about to build a studio out behind the house and i need ideas for layout and design.
the building will only be 20'x20'. any help will be greatly appreciated.
layout help please?
Moderators: Aaronw, kendale, John Sayers
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
-
Anton
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:26 pm
- Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
- Contact:
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
opinions please
i don't know if i will have the funds to build the interior walls. would a 20'x20' room be big enough for an adequate control room + live room + a booth? or should i just go with the "one big room" theory? thanks!
-
John Sayers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5462
- Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:46 pm
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
i've done scale drawings but still cannot visualize the space involved here.
my control room and live room would come down to about 12' on the long walls with a standard diamond layout leaving a 6'x8' booth on one corner and 6'x8' entry room on the other corner. after whatever acoustic treatment these rooms could get pretty small once my gear is inside. this doesn't include double walls as is the studio norm.
for those of you who actually have studios this size, do you find that it is cramped, wishing you had stuck with one big room?
i've looked at a ton of stuff on this site but i don't have all day to sit online and do searches; i still work for a living
.
my control room and live room would come down to about 12' on the long walls with a standard diamond layout leaving a 6'x8' booth on one corner and 6'x8' entry room on the other corner. after whatever acoustic treatment these rooms could get pretty small once my gear is inside. this doesn't include double walls as is the studio norm.
for those of you who actually have studios this size, do you find that it is cramped, wishing you had stuck with one big room?
i've looked at a ton of stuff on this site but i don't have all day to sit online and do searches; i still work for a living
.-
AVare
- Confused, but not senile yet
- Posts: 2336
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Hanilton, Ontario, Canada
I am assuming from the above remark that you are not familiar with doing searches here:i've looked at a ton of stuff on this site but i don't have all day to sit online and do searches; i still work for a living
Go to the top of the screen
Click on search (second choice in the first line of selections)
In the first entry field, type in "20x20". (after the screen loads of course)
Move down to the bottom of the screen and click on "search"button.
You will then see a screen with ten threads listed, all of have items that you are interested in, including several drawings of designs.
If that is too daunting, then here is an URL to it. The results that is.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/searc ... de=results
Ignore the first thread, it is this one.
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
yes i know how to do a search. and yes i have read most of those. i do not have time to sit and read 32 replies to a thread that has little to do with the answer to my question.
what is up with you folks spending your time to try and teach me how to navigate around a bulletin board?
if anyone has had experience with a room of this size i would love to read your opinions (pro or con) on the subject. if you cannot offer an opinion on the subject, don't bother to reply. thank you.
... i'm looking for support here, not condescending remarks. all of the threads i have read have to do with folks who are designing 20x20 rooms; there is little to be found of those same folks and their opinions of their studios once they have been completed.
what is up with you folks spending your time to try and teach me how to navigate around a bulletin board?
if anyone has had experience with a room of this size i would love to read your opinions (pro or con) on the subject. if you cannot offer an opinion on the subject, don't bother to reply. thank you.
... i'm looking for support here, not condescending remarks. all of the threads i have read have to do with folks who are designing 20x20 rooms; there is little to be found of those same folks and their opinions of their studios once they have been completed.
-
dymaxian
- Senior Member
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:21 am
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
AVare might have sounded condescending, but what he's trying to say is that the rest of us work for a living, too, and we don't all have time to sit around and re-type the same answers to the same questions a dozen times a day. Don't take it as being snobbish.
You're just asking a question that a) has been answered at least a couple times already and b) is as much opinion as anything else... If you 're asking us whether or not you and all your gear will be comfy in a 20x20 space, the first thing I'd say would be to ask you how much space you currently have, and how comfy you are now.
Sometime when you're bored, go into the driveway with a tape measure and some sidewalk chalk and draw it out. Aside from that, I don't know how else we could help you visualize your space.
I personally have a 15x15 room that is my whole studio. And my band practices down there, so it's a fairly big drum set, a keyboard setup that takes up as much space as the drums do, and on top of this you have to get thru the studio to get to the laundry room. I have enough room to do what I need to, but yeah, I could use more space.
I don't know what else to tell you- I have my own searches to sort thru *shrug*
Kase
www.minemusic.net
You're just asking a question that a) has been answered at least a couple times already and b) is as much opinion as anything else... If you 're asking us whether or not you and all your gear will be comfy in a 20x20 space, the first thing I'd say would be to ask you how much space you currently have, and how comfy you are now.
Sometime when you're bored, go into the driveway with a tape measure and some sidewalk chalk and draw it out. Aside from that, I don't know how else we could help you visualize your space.
I personally have a 15x15 room that is my whole studio. And my band practices down there, so it's a fairly big drum set, a keyboard setup that takes up as much space as the drums do, and on top of this you have to get thru the studio to get to the laundry room. I have enough room to do what I need to, but yeah, I could use more space.
I don't know what else to tell you- I have my own searches to sort thru *shrug*
Kase
www.minemusic.net
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
largtr, What is up here is this:
This is a FREE resource - note that you didn't have to pay to join. The board is run by three of us, all of whom ALSO work for a living.
John has designed countless studios for people, and has mixed records which won the Aussie equivalent of Grammies, among other things.
I've done construction of one type or another, off and on for most of my life. I've also spent the last 20+ years of my life studying acoustics and sound proofing, and I now WORK 12-hour days as an Industrial Systems and Control Instrumentation tech in a rare metals plant. In addition to that, I have 6-7 different major projects going at any one time, plus I moderate the construction part of this board and help moderate the acoustics forum at Recording.org.
Barefoot works fulltime for Intel in the SF Bay area, and is busy starting up his own speaker company -
We don't appreciate snotty remarks in payment for giving of our free time, any more than YOU would - so, unless you want to HIRE John to design your studio from scratch complete with full plans and material list, and/or HIRE me to oversee proper construction, I would suggest that you tone down the attitude just a bit and appreciate what is available here for free.
You were given at least one solution regarding laying out chalk lines in the driveway or wherever, to see if it feels too cramped - your actual decision would depend on the way you intend to work, whether you intend to have a stack of keyboards and a guitar and maybe an electronic drum kit in the control room and write/play all parts yourself, or if you will be recording others for pay, rehearsing a full band, etc - personally, I've worked in 9 x 10 foot rooms, 12 x 21 foot rooms, and because I DO use a lot of keyboards, guitars and basses and DO play all parts myself, for a lot of things I prefer a large control room. If given a choice between two smaller rooms and one large one, I'll take one big room. My next facility will have both, as the outer 8" concrete shell will be 40 x 60 feet with 16' ceilings minimum.
BTW, the occasional cases on this board where you see "spoonfeeding", usually happen because that person not only is inexperienced and needs extra help, but mainly because they did NOT cop an ATTITUDE -
I hope that answered your original question... Steve
This is a FREE resource - note that you didn't have to pay to join. The board is run by three of us, all of whom ALSO work for a living.
John has designed countless studios for people, and has mixed records which won the Aussie equivalent of Grammies, among other things.
I've done construction of one type or another, off and on for most of my life. I've also spent the last 20+ years of my life studying acoustics and sound proofing, and I now WORK 12-hour days as an Industrial Systems and Control Instrumentation tech in a rare metals plant. In addition to that, I have 6-7 different major projects going at any one time, plus I moderate the construction part of this board and help moderate the acoustics forum at Recording.org.
Barefoot works fulltime for Intel in the SF Bay area, and is busy starting up his own speaker company -
We don't appreciate snotty remarks in payment for giving of our free time, any more than YOU would - so, unless you want to HIRE John to design your studio from scratch complete with full plans and material list, and/or HIRE me to oversee proper construction, I would suggest that you tone down the attitude just a bit and appreciate what is available here for free.
You were given at least one solution regarding laying out chalk lines in the driveway or wherever, to see if it feels too cramped - your actual decision would depend on the way you intend to work, whether you intend to have a stack of keyboards and a guitar and maybe an electronic drum kit in the control room and write/play all parts yourself, or if you will be recording others for pay, rehearsing a full band, etc - personally, I've worked in 9 x 10 foot rooms, 12 x 21 foot rooms, and because I DO use a lot of keyboards, guitars and basses and DO play all parts myself, for a lot of things I prefer a large control room. If given a choice between two smaller rooms and one large one, I'll take one big room. My next facility will have both, as the outer 8" concrete shell will be 40 x 60 feet with 16' ceilings minimum.
BTW, the occasional cases on this board where you see "spoonfeeding", usually happen because that person not only is inexperienced and needs extra help, but mainly because they did NOT cop an ATTITUDE -
I hope that answered your original question... Steve
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
thank you, knightfly, that was helpful.knightfly wrote:... I've worked in 9 x 10 foot rooms, 12 x 21 foot rooms, and because I DO use a lot of keyboards, guitars and basses and DO play all parts myself, for a lot of things I prefer a large control room. If given a choice between two smaller rooms and one large one, I'll take one big room. My next facility will have both, as the outer 8" concrete shell will be 40 x 60 feet with 16' ceilings minimum...
I hope that answered your original question... Steve
and that was helpful. thanks dymaxian.dymaxian wrote:I personally have a 15x15 room that is my whole studio. And my band practices down there, so it's a fairly big drum set, a keyboard setup that takes up as much space as the drums do, and on top of this you have to get thru the studio to get to the laundry room. I have enough room to do what I need to, but yeah, I could use more space.
now as far as copping an attitude goes, that's what it appeared this board was leaning towards. many of the threads i've read here consist of one post, then one or two replies of the "go search yourself" nature. pretty soon there will be no new posts here, just a bunch of guys searching around a data base. maybe it's an attempt to keep traffic down, i'm not sure. but i do know that it doesn't work too well for making new acquaintances or getting to know people on a personal level. sorry for the tude. i'll keep my mouth shut.
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
I thought I explained why we can't handle each post as a paid consultation - that's part of why the search function is available on web boards. It's not that we don't enjoy going over the same things multiple times, it's just that there aren't enough hours in the day if we don't try to streamline things a bit. I'm still trying to find enough time to write a more complete FAQ for my part of the board, but for now the "stickies" have the most pertinent info.
I think all anyone was trying to point out was that it's a two-way street, and that looking around some may save the three of us enough time to answer questions that haven't already been covered. I'm not trying to get mean here, only trying to survive and still help people keep from having to spend over two DECADES learning what I've learned. I'm here because I had NO SUCH resource available to me for this, and really could have used it. Probably would have saved me at least 15 years study.
I've also gotten spoiled by the mellow attitude of our members here, and I've quit posting on boards that aren't that way.
By all means don't go away mad, just please understand that this board is run by three busy people and some helpful members - none of us is perfect, but we try to make it work. Anything the members can find on their own just lessens the workload for John, Thomas and myself. I'm always happy if I can get 5 hours sleep instead of the usual 4...
As to the "personal level" approach, that's what I normally go for. If you check out the construction forum, you'll see hundreds of personalized answers and several drawings (usually when I can't figure out how to describe a concept) - Sooo, if you already have a "modus operandi", how 'bout throwing it out there so we can get a better idea of how you prefer to work? And if not, ask more questions along that line and you'll likely get more responses. Either way, give and take works. Take and take - not so well... Steve
I think all anyone was trying to point out was that it's a two-way street, and that looking around some may save the three of us enough time to answer questions that haven't already been covered. I'm not trying to get mean here, only trying to survive and still help people keep from having to spend over two DECADES learning what I've learned. I'm here because I had NO SUCH resource available to me for this, and really could have used it. Probably would have saved me at least 15 years study.
I've also gotten spoiled by the mellow attitude of our members here, and I've quit posting on boards that aren't that way.
By all means don't go away mad, just please understand that this board is run by three busy people and some helpful members - none of us is perfect, but we try to make it work. Anything the members can find on their own just lessens the workload for John, Thomas and myself. I'm always happy if I can get 5 hours sleep instead of the usual 4...
As to the "personal level" approach, that's what I normally go for. If you check out the construction forum, you'll see hundreds of personalized answers and several drawings (usually when I can't figure out how to describe a concept) - Sooo, if you already have a "modus operandi", how 'bout throwing it out there so we can get a better idea of how you prefer to work? And if not, ask more questions along that line and you'll likely get more responses. Either way, give and take works. Take and take - not so well... Steve
-
John Sayers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5462
- Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:46 pm
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
largtr - my policy on this site is to help those who help themselves. I'm sure Steve and Thomas do the same.
If you arrive and say I have 20 x 20 room what should I do? I say read up and suggest something - then we have somewhere to start from. We also need to know what you want to record in the room/s what sound iso problems you might have, if it's an existing room where are the doors and windows, staircases, pipes, ducts what ever.
It's really annoying when you draw something up for someone who presented a shape and the reply is I can't do that because of the never before mentioned stairway or HVAC system.
Mate - I'm on the slowest dialup so it takes hours for me to answer all the questions I get. Help yourself and maybe we can help you. There's heaps of data here - and it's free.
cheers
John
If you arrive and say I have 20 x 20 room what should I do? I say read up and suggest something - then we have somewhere to start from. We also need to know what you want to record in the room/s what sound iso problems you might have, if it's an existing room where are the doors and windows, staircases, pipes, ducts what ever.
It's really annoying when you draw something up for someone who presented a shape and the reply is I can't do that because of the never before mentioned stairway or HVAC system.
Mate - I'm on the slowest dialup so it takes hours for me to answer all the questions I get. Help yourself and maybe we can help you. There's heaps of data here - and it's free.
cheers
John
-
largtr
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am
- Contact:
right on, john. i was merely looking for opinions from folks who already have experience in a room this size. i've already done the research and this is as big as i can build. there is a wealth of information here, most of which i'll never need or use. i did, however, find great ideas on a design plan and some additional inspiration that i didn't know i needed.John Sayers wrote:largtr - my policy on this site is to help those who help themselves. I'm sure Steve and Thomas do the same.
If you arrive and say I have 20 x 20 room what should I do? I say read up and suggest something - then we have somewhere to start from. We also need to know what you want to record in the room/s what sound iso problems you might have, if it's an existing room where are the doors and windows, staircases, pipes, ducts what ever.
It's really annoying when you draw something up for someone who presented a shape and the reply is I can't do that because of the never before mentioned stairway or HVAC system.
Mate - I'm on the slowest dialup so it takes hours for me to answer all the questions I get. Help yourself and maybe we can help you. There's heaps of data here - and it's free.
cheers
John
now, after having drawn up the plans and scheduling an architect for monday, i'm having reservations about the finished size of the rooms.
if there is another forum that i can seek opinions from those folks who have actually had experience in this specific size of building, i would be happy to post there.
thank you, and i do appreciate the work you three, and others, have put into this forum, your website, and all of the links to other websites that i have found here.
-
dbluefield
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:47 am
- Location: Marietta, GA, USA
if there is another forum that i can seek opinions from those folks who have actually had experience in this specific size of building, i would be happy to post there.
doh! Your here. Your hear! Quite the jabbering and post a picture already. hehe
Of course there is the world renowed studio cubist designer, Dr. Von Squaremister, that insists on perfectly square acoustic designs.
here's the url:
http://www.squareinsider.com/forums/index.php
