Wider than longer control room

[pichudequito]

Hi

Great forum!

I'm in the process of constructing a basement/project studio, I've been designing the shape of the rooms and come out with something that seems all right to me.



Anyway, my main questions were about paralellism in the control room and about sliding glass doors between studio A and B.

First, the control room. The walls are not up yet, except for the bathroom ones, so any changes are still possible. The outer and main walls will be made of cement, and the inner walls that define the geometry of the room will be made out of wood. I was reading that wider control rooms are a good idea in home-project studios since the side walls are farther away from the listening position and therefore don't interact too much as if they were closer. Anyway, I was thinking about making the inner side walls with 6 degrees variation each to kill fluttering. The other parallell walls will occur between the front and rear wall, what kind of treatment should I use for that?? should a diffussor will be enough or do I need to make some treatment/move the rear wall?

And I want to have a double sliding door between studio A and studio B to keep comunication and visual contact. Studio B will be in fact some sort of living room that can be used sometimes to record a guitar amp or something, so it will not be in use all the time, but when it's needed I want it to be there with the right acoustic treatment and geometry. I want to have studio A more "dead" than studio B, where I want it to be "liver", you get the idea. I liked the idea of the sliding glass door so the place can have easy comunnication between studio A and B, but if it's gonna be a bad idea as to acoustics/isolation then it just can go out.

Any ideas?

Thanks a lot! you guys rock.

Daniel

[knightfly]

Daniel, I moved this to the Design forum as John's the man on this - probably the first two things he'll tell you is that your rear side walls are backward - they should be angled to direct sound AWAY from the mix position, not toward it - and that your speaker soffits need to have more space between the speakers and the inner corners if possible. You need probably 3-4 woofer diameters of extension minimum. Third, don't use diffusion in that small a room, you'll want to absorb the rear wall.

That's if John doesn't tell you to turn the room 90 degrees as well... Steve

[John Sayers]

That's if John doesn't tell you to turn the room 90 degrees as well... Steve

done

cheers
John

[pichudequito]

Thanks!

I'm sorry about the double posts, I thought since the forums had different moderators they were completely separate forums, sorry again.

Thanks for your comments, I was doing some sketching with the recomendations you gave, and came up with this



Just for information: the black walls mean that those are cement walls and HAVE to be there so there's no chance of moving them, the ones in blue are cement block walls also, but aren't up yet and can be moved with no problem.

The length of the room will be 4.5 meters, and the width 3.2 mts, the studio will be in the basement, so the height of the ceiling is 2.4 mts.

There will be NO suffit mount for the speakers, but I want the slant on the wall on the front right of the control room so I can put a window there so there's visual comunication with Studio B, and there will be another window in the right to studio A in the same equilateral position as the door in the left.

About the cement wall in the right of the control room, I made it with that weird shape as to avoid any parallel walls in studio A, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea for the control room to have it that way, will it be better to just make a straight parallel wall and treat it later?

I was thinking about using wood floor on everything except studio A, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea since the ceiling will be parallel to it. How should I treat the floor/ceiling?

Thanks a lot again, you're incredibly helpful.
Sorry for the not so good english, I'm from southamerica.

Cheers

[John Sayers]

I'd already posted this in another of your posts - this is what happens when you make multiple posts

Daniel - it's best to fire your speakers down the long wall - I know it's not what you have read - but a layout like this would be better IMO

cheers
john



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[pichudequito]

Thanks a lot for the design John!!

Anyway, there are some things that I'm not sure about. First, I need (or "want" would be better) to have a window (even a small one) from control room to studio B, I know it will be kind of behind the right speaker but I prefer that than having no visual comunnication at all.

And as for the front entrance, I know myself and know that I'm gonna trip over the cables or something everytime I come in to the control room, as the entrance will be right behind the console. And another and more important point is that a column will be right there where the door in John's design is. It looks like it will be less obstrussive if it's in the side of the room anyway.

I made a cleaner drawing so this is kind of my idea:



By the way, there will be NO suffit mounts for the speakers, since there will be no way to do it if the window has to go there, will that change any of the inner walls in the front of the room? how do I have to splay the walls in that case?

And about having 2 double glass doors (one from studio A to studio B, and the other one from control room to studio A), economically speaking I think it's just a little bit too much for my budget and I'd rather stick to only one (the one from studio A to studio B) and have a window from control room to studio A. Or do you think that going out of the control room and around the hall to go to any studio will be a lot of trouble if I don't have a glass door there?

Sorry if I'm kind of stubborn with some of my ideas, I'm just trying to make it all correct.

John, by the way, check my previous post, what do you think about the cement walls issue? are they gonna be any trouble?

Thanks a lot again.
And again.

Daniel

(and sorry again for the double posts, I know I know... )

[John Sayers]

Daniel - I understand where your design is coming from But - yes you can still have soffits -- you mount them above your window - make the window 5ft (1.5m) high and have the speakers above - it would be a shame to go to the extent you are going without soffit mounting.

BTW - you have to resolve a door into the studios from the control room

cheers
john

[pichudequito]

Thanks John!

It will be great to have soffits and also a window, but I have a couple of questions:

The most important one: about the symmetry of the room and the soffits, as it is now the soffit of the right will be different from the soffit in the left, the external walls I mean, internally in the room it will be simmetrical but I don't know if one soffit has different shape in the back will it make a big difference? or do I have to splay the walls in the front right (or left) in a different position?

About the angles in the walls: I noticed in your drawing that the side walls all have a 12 degree rotation, and the corner traps have a 60 degree rotation. I read that the sum of both walls angles should be at least 12 degrees, meaning that every wall could be splayed at least 6 degrees, will it make any difference to splay the walls only 6 degrees each so I can have a little more space in the room? I know it's not that much, but it's something anyway.

And about the door into the studios from the control room, I was thinking of putting a normal double door instead of the window from studio A to control room, simple yet effective. Any suggestions about those doors with the big glass in the middle?

Thanks a lot again!

Daniel

[John Sayers]

maybe you could try something like this??

cheers
john

[pichudequito]

Thanks a lot for the last design John, it certainly looks like a great way to go, but the problem is that Studio A will be too small, and studio A has to be the main studio (you know, studio B is kind of a bedroom that will be ocassionally used as a studio, so having studio B as a really big studio is not much of an advantage)

Anyway, I think that the best design to satisfy everyone need's will be the one we were working on before, more specifically this one:



So there are 4 questions:

1.- about the soffits, will I have any problems about the geometry of the outer wall not being the same in left and right? are there any special specifications about having a soffit with a window?

2.- about the door from control room to studio A, I was thinking of putting a double door, the ones with the glass in the middle (not a sliding glass door, that one will be from studio A to studio B) are there any specifications for this kind of door that I need to search for? you see I live in Ecuador, so it's not so easy to find proper acoustic doors/products and I was wondering what I do have to look for.

3.- about the double sliding glass door: in what angle do I need to splay the doors? do I have to use glass of different thickness or will I be fine if it's the same thickness?

4.- about the angles to splay the walls: I noticed in one of your previous drawings that the side walls all have a 12 degree rotation, and the corner traps have a 60 degree rotation. I read that the sum of both walls angles should be at least 12 degrees, meaning that every wall could be splayed at least 6 degrees, will it make any difference to splay the walls only 6 degrees each so I can have a little more space in the room? I know it's not that much, but it's something anyway.

thanks a lot again John, you're incredibly helpful.

take good care

Daniel

[pichudequito]

Bump!

any suggestions anyone? we have to start construction already (in fact we are already late) so any help will be greatly appreciated.

thanks a lot.

Daniel

[John Sayers]

don't worry about the doors - you can do the same with windows and doors.

Daniel - I accept what you are asking but you don't seem to accept what I'm offering - you are prepared to compromise your studio design because the occasional bedroom is too big??? - where are your priorities??

cheers
John

[pichudequito]

John

The problem with the ocasional bedroom being too big is that it makes Studio A too small, and I'd prefer to have Studio A bigger than Studio B since St. A is gonna be the main studio and it will also be a practice space for my band. I prefer to have the band practices in Studio A because the outer walls are concrete and underground, and studio B outer walls colide with neighbors and have windows and will be less appropiate for the practices .

About the control room being smaller, as far as ergonomics and space goes I think I don't need a bigger room, I don't have lots of equipment either. Acoustics might be a different story and I've read that bigger rooms tend to give better results, but anyway I'm ignorant in that aspect and don't know if making the control room slightly bigger will improve results in a dramatic way, any ideas about this? If making the control room bigger gives way better results then it will be stupid not to do it, but if it's just a little improvement, having more space for the studios will be a better idea.

Don't take me wrong John, I really appreciate your advice, I just want to cover all posible problems that may occur.

Thanks again

Daniel