FLOOR/CEILING/WALL CONSTRUCTION SEQUENCE

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:05 am

Dean, it's gonna take a few days - water's rising in the swamp again, damn alligators are gettin' too close to personal stuff again... Steve

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:30 am

(just in case your ceilings don't cut sound enough to upstairs, you'll have the option of a third layer, preferably 1/2" if you have two 5'8" layers already up)

Right on!

floor - are your 2x4's laid flat or on edge, and how far apart?

Oops! Sorry 'bout that. FLOORING= 2X4 on EDGE, 16 OC with cross pieces between the joists every 48" (this was done for a little more support and for the Thermafiber to fit into). I see SAE recommends 2 layers of 3/4". I'm thinking I should float the control room as well, in order to knock down any flanking noise from the wall that I had already built (the one in the pix).

pdf. files are not a problem.

Windows: best steps for construction most appreciated!

dean
P.S. SURE GLAD THE SERVERS ARE WORKING AGAIN!

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:38 am

Hey Dean, it's been a while since the site's been up, and I've been 'way too friendly with the 'gators to have accomplished much either.

How 'bout an update, so we can cover whatever points you still need help with? Steve

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:39 pm

Hi there Steve,
Glad the site is back up...UPDATE: I've completed the floating floors in iso and control room as well as the floated wall in the iso as per your directions-THANKS! It worked, but was a little tricky getting that wall up (the luvwall.jpg if you recall). Just for clarification, my floors consist of: 2X4 framing on neoprene pads, filled with Thermafiber, then 1/2" plywood, GAF 1/8" rubber/vinyl, and 3/4" on top. The final finished floor remains up in the air...

My next dilemma...well, I'll have to take a picture to explain it...check back in a few days...

Windows and doors are the next challenge to prepare for. I've downloaded diagrams/pix etc., but none show the actual construction materials/process. I have some heavy duty solid-core doors, but no framing for them. I was told to add 2" to the width for the 2X4 framing so that the door jams(?) can be attached to the framing, leaving enough room for a 36" wide door. I've not seen any clear directions for this process and can only imagine how that would work. Even the studio door manufacturer sites only have diagrams limited in scope (mainly focused on their products, no surpise there). I guess there is a basic assumption of how doors are built...I just want to build a door using the ones I have with a door frame that will seal well enough to cut down on sound transmission. I'm not looking for world class results, just functionality with decent isolation. The Acoustical Solutions website shows a few things...the threshold-should it be screwed to my subfloor, the finish flooring or another piece of framing? It seems there are several solutions for good doors. I don't want to spend $1000 or even $500 on my doors. Any suggestions?

For window jams, is there a recommended width/thickness? How about window size (overall)? I'm at a point where it would not be too much hassle to decrease the size of the windows (currently, and without any jams/sills, the dimensions are 42 3/4" H X 32 1/2" W).

I'll try to get some pix of my other problem posted later today (1/12).

Glad you're back online!

dean

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:22 am

See if this helps any on the fundamentals of door hanging -

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_ ... d=35694582

Keep in mind that for sound construction, the little shims that most carpenters use to align door frames to rough openings aren't good. You need to thoroughly caulk both sides of the frame after installing the jamb, between the jamb and the wallboard. Also, if using multiple sheets of wallboard, the jamb needs to be wider to cover both layers of wallboard.

Windows and doors both - here's one good link for a general idea of what's required -

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... indows.htm

- the smaller the window, the less the sound loss (windows are harder to soundproof than walls) however, it also means less communication ability. Extra space between inner and outer glass, thicker glass, no hard contact between inner and outer frames, all help improve Transmission Loss.

Look over the drawings and come back with your un-answered questions on them, and I'll see if I can clear things up a bit... Steve

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:55 am

Steve,
Thanks for the door construction link! The window link I had downloaded over a month ago, so I'm very familiar with the SAE site. The only thing missing are recommended dimensions of the actual glass...so, in your experience, will these dimensions be ok? (42 3/4" H X 32 1/2" W) Again i can frame the window smaller, but that's where it's at now.

Tomorrow I'll have pix posted of the other issue...thanks again Steve!

dean

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:24 am

Those window dim's are fine - you didn't mention thicknesses, have you downloaded the free insul soundproofing calculator I linked to somewhere? It can tell you what to expect for isolation with different glass thickness, panel size, and spacing -

http://www.insul.co.nz/download.html

You need to change panel size at the top of the window, it's the double arrow. It won't let you go smaller than about 1.2 sq meters, not sure if that's a constraint of just the freebie or if the other two versions do that also. There are a few "tricks" I've learned using it to "fudge" it into more than it appears to be capable of, play with it and see what you think... Steve

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:06 pm

Hi Steve,
I plan to use the recommendations from the SAE site (5/16" & 3/8") for my windows.

Unfortunately the insul calc download has been written for PC users exclusively...my G4 can't read .exe files and I haven't purchased virtual PC yet.

More tomorrow,
dean

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:14 pm

I'm not sure what's even going to happen to Virtual PC, now that it's a Micro-Slop property - if you want, post your intended dimensions including air gap, and I'll run them (the freebie only does float plate, not laminated glass) Steve

VSpaceBoy · Post by **VSpaceBoy** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:24 am

I've read through this whole thread <and the linked threads within> a few times now and had a question about the ceiling/ wall construction.
Through the reading, its apparant (I think?!) that the goal when connecting the walls to the ceiling is to keep it flexible to a degree.
The two main reasons I can gather are:
To keep the RC flexing as not to lower the STC through the ceiling.
And to keep the walls and ceiling from flanking into the adjoining room.

Here is my question: Would it be possible to build walls with the ceiling of the room resting on top of them? By doing that you wouldn't have any sort of contact with the floor joists above <assuming were still in the basement>. And you could build seperate rooms with seperate ceilings with the only component to "Flank" being the floor. Assuming the room dementions weren't so big as needing some sort of makeshift trussing system. I'm thinking.. like building some sort of 2x4 framed ceiling to rest on the wall frames. Possibly just with some sort of supports here and there or like some eyebolts with some rope or something?

If this is a retarded statment feel free to let me know. I'm just thinking aloud really.

Ron

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:26 pm

That type construction can be done, but you need heavier framing for any serious spans. Some examples - 24" centers, 2x4 #2 and better douglas fir, max span around 7 feet. 2x6 ups the span to about 10-1/2 feet, and 2x8 increases it to about 13'6" maximum - these are only for single layer of wallboard, so spans would be less for any isolation construction.

Even with supporting the ceiling framing on walls, you still need to use RC to hang the ceiling wallboard, in order to isolate it from the walls... Steve

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:48 am

Hi Steve,

Here is another pic...a "new" issue. Those are phone/ethernet lines I've run just to illustrate the issue. There is a sizeable gap between the floating wall (in the foreground) and the existing wall. Plenty of space for sound to get through. Should I fill that space with soundboard and then caulk? [please view additional pix that help illustrate the issue even more].

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:06 am

Steve,

Here's another one...you can see how there is a gap between the floating floor and the existing one. So, sound can easily go along that gap, along the same path as those wires and into the control room, unless I build another wall (which I'm about to do), that runs the length of the window sill somehow. Any brilliant ideas on that? [see subsequent photos].

I should mention that I'm planning on building an iso box for a window AC this spring that will fit in ONE of the windows seen in the following pix...can I just build a short wall that goes up to the window sill and is sealed against the sill with neoprene/GAF/acoustical sealant all the way around? Am I making sense? Should I just throw myself out into the -10 F weather we're having? (windchill puts us at @ -33F tonite here in Mpls.)

dean

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:12 am

Steve...next pic.
The heating element to the left of the exposed brick is disabled, so, if I sheetrock over a frame placed directly along the edge of the floor in front of that heater it won't matter (I'll be using a space heater in this room).

dean

luvshinerbock · Post by **luvshinerbock** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:15 am

...next shot up close of "trough" between the rooms...

dean