How do you make a window?

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:58 am

I have two rooms, but neither one have windows. I was wondering how to make the window, yet keeping it sort of sound proof. I thought about just cutting a hole and using plexi glass on both sides, but not letting them touch.....how should I really do it?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:00 am

Have you studyed the SAE site link I gave you on your other thread? There is a section called construction where all of that is covered.

Bryan Giles

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Is this a window between the two rooms?

What is your existing wall construction, starting at the surface of one side of the wall and ending at the other surface, listing each material?

And finally, how much isolation do you need, keeping in mind that windows almost NEVER do as good as the wall they're in?

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:30 pm

I want a window from between the control room and vocal room, vocal room and live room, and control room and live room. Everything goes drywall, insulation (the Pink Panther kind), drywall. As of right now, there is no window, or even a hole.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:42 pm

OK, now you need to read up some, so you have an idea of what's being talked about. The more you know, the less confusing it'll be - first, the link Bryan apparently already mentioned -

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Then, one on wall construction -

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=598

Once you study some of this information, we can help you work out what you want to do for windows... Steve

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:17 pm

That SAE site looks a little too good for me. First of all, the rooms have parallel walls. Second, they share the same studs, nothing is staggered. Third, it's the same type of drywall on both sides. One room still needs drywall. If I wanted to, I could stagger the studs and use different drywall, but I don't really have a lot of money. Do I have to use glass for the window, or can I use plexi glass? I'm just supposed to angle them down? Won't that create a little lip at the bottom? Also, what is 703? Is that a brand or a type?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:22 pm

703 is a fiberglass insulation

Use Glass not plexi. Glass can be had pretty cheaply if you use laminated glass. 1/4" Laminated glass is equivalent to 1/2" Thick regular glass. Depending on the size.

The lip in the window sill is fine. and it's pretty easy to do.

Bryan Giles

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:25 pm

Should I try to fix the studs? 703 a special type of fiber glass, or just fiber glass in general?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:56 pm

I deally, yes if it's in your budget. If not You will have sound transmission between the two rooms.

Read the building materials forum. there is a Owens Corning 700 series info thread on there.

Bryan Giles

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:08 pm

If you're going to be dealing with standard wall construction, I wouldn't slant the glass in your windows - while that cuts down on flutter echo between the glasses, it also cuts down the air space BETWEEN the glasses, which will noticeably reduce your isolation.

The plexiglas is lighter than glass, so the same thickess will do less to stop sound. The windows will always be one of your weakest links, so it's not good to compromise them any more than necessary. I'd stay with glass, and as thick as you can afford. Laminated is better than float, or normal glass - no matter what, the glasses need to be bedded in neoprene and SEALED, or you'll have more sound leakage.

If possible, you might think about adding a second layer of sheet rock to at least one side of your walls for additional mass - it's not as good as staggered stud separate frame walls, but it's not as expensive either. That thread I posted on wall construction explains most of what you'd need to know for that.

One other method of communication in small studios that may be cheaper than windows, would be a pair of inexpensive video cameras and some small monitors. You could probably get a 2-way setup for under $200, and it wouldn't require putting big holes in walls. The downside is it's more claustrophobic, so there's a choice to be made... Steve

rod gervais · Post by **rod gervais** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:24 am

One other thing you should know is that the inner and outer glass should be different thicknesses.

Go with the thickest glass you can afford - this helps to stop sympathetic resonance (vibration) between the 2 panes of glass (which will allow certain frequencies to pass almost directly into the room).

Rod

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:58 am

Hey Jaguar some supproting info for you.

Get the laminated glass 1/4" is a good affordable way to go.

IMO

http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/windows.htm

The two main types of glass that can be used in studio construction are:

Plate/Float-which is typical glass ranging from 3mm to 25mm thick and
Laminated-in which an interior layer of very thin viscous plastic is sandwiched between layers of glass.

The noise reduction produced by a barrier is proportional to its mass, area, limpness and air-tightness. As the glass thickness increases the mass will increase. However, at a certain point there will be no more increase in transmission loss due to resonance effects. As the window opening gets bigger, extra glass thickness is more desirable since it will vibrate less in a control room.

Laminated glass performs better acoustically because of its increased limpness for the same thickness. Although laminated glass is more expensive than float glass, a thinner laminated glass will equal the performance of a considerably thicker float glass equivalent.

***
http://www.viracon.com/info/literature/eng-1-f-2.shtml

Laminated glass can provide higher acoustical performance levels than monolithic glass due to the sound damping characteristics of the polyvinyl buytral (pvb) interlayer used to permanently bond the glass plies together.

View the following pages

Standard Glass (Sample properties)

http://www.viracon.com/info/performance/5-a.shtml

Laminated Glass (Sample properties)

http://www.viracon.com/info/performance/5-d.shtml?1

You will notice that 1/4" Laminated glass from this company performs quite similarly to 1/2" Glass
Hence my recomendation of him getting a laminated glass product.

Bryan Giles

Hope this adds to the knowledge base.

For Jaguar the point is there are ways to get similar performance for less money. A sheet of 1/4" Laminated Glass cost me a total of $40.00 for my Live room. Whereas a sheet of 1/2" Glass was going to run me $105.00

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:14 am

All good points guys, thanks -

Another thing I forgot to mention - if you DO decide to add an extra layer of wallboard to one side of the wall, put your heavier glass on that same side. You want your glass to = the mass of the wall leaf, and glass is about 3 times as heavy per thickness as normal sheet rock. So, ideally your glass should be just over 1/3 the TOTAL thickness of wallboard on each side of the wall... Steve

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:00 am

I'm looking into the staggered studs. I think I should probably do it, but I don't know if I can, yet. Also, can I get sheet rock and laminated glass at a hardware store (I am in the USA)? What about the rooms being an almost perfect square? Should I make the studs on one end stick out farther to make the wall slant?

sjaguar13 · Post by **sjaguar13** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:26 am

Another problem, if the studs share a common base, won't they still touch the other drywall? The wall right now is a 2x4 base with 7 2x4 studs with insulation between them. To stagger the studs, I would have to cut the insulation. The base is the width of the stud, do I move the studs out a little bit so they hang over the base and don't touch the other drywall, or do I run another base right next to the first one and put the studs on that?