What gives??? why ignore those who try to make the effort?

[John Sayers]

Thanks Marc - a Canadian comedian recently suggested that Australians are Feral Canadians. I laughed out loud at that remark

[Mario Petrinovich]

Just few words.

4. Testing wars:

It looks like the problem with acoustics is that room is like one big musical instrument, so you would need to test the whole room (more or less). This is why this is so tricky, and results depend more on experience.

Mario, nice of you to point me to other peoples threads, but I do have some comments concerning Soulfoods posts. Now Soulfood, if you read this post, I mean you no disrespect, but Im suprised that folks were helping you, due to the fact, of the constant bumping of topics, an innacurate measured room, reading the rules after posting, and would cost you significantly more to build than your proposed budget. Like I said, I mean no disrespect towards this member, but it seems he was doing alot of things that makes nobody want to respond, but yet he was getting the help needed. Sorry man, had to use you as an example, I hope your build becomes a reality soon for you too Soulfood.

Well, I can explain this better, since I followed this Soulfood thing, since I live nearby Slovenia.
First, I like that you tried to discuss those things, since they really look strange at the first glance, and it is good to talk it over. As you can see, people responded, and tried to sort it over.
It isn't only for Soulfood. Experst here simply don't have enough time to discuss every detail of every room. It looks like Soulfood simply came at the right moment. Before Soulfood there where a lot of questions about one room studios. When Soulfood came it was about time to adress those things. Soulfood's case was a clean one, nice big room, a nice case where you can nicely show what would be the classic solution for such a type of studio. And in Soulfood's room John really adressed the problem. I learnt a lot from Soulfood's room.
Also, I like the John's attitude towards less developed parts of the world. Slovenia isn't such a big problem, since Slovenia is the richest, and the most advanced easteuropean country. Actually, people in Slovenia and Croatia all learn english (or german) in school. The other thing is how well we learn it, (since our native language is not similar to germanic languages). But some other regoins of the world really do need some additional help. It is good to bring music, help to develop culture in those parts of the world. -- Mario

[Db]

pardon?? In what way am I "anti-semitic" in stating that I'm more likely to consider language difficulties from people from eastern bloc countries like Slovenia?

Do you even know where Slovenia is?

I doubt it.

Simply amazing! How you could misunderstand this John is beyond me, it had NOTHING to do with language difficulties, or people in the European region of the world. So I will refer you to the comment you made that I was not very fond of.

"it is not specifically designed for Americans who think the world revolves around them and them alone"

Your comment seemed "aimed" at me, the key word here is American, if you think I am some bratty spoiled American who expects everything to be handed to them you are dead wrong! Poor word choice on your part John, the word "people" would have worked without the underlying message that came across. Without doubt this country has its problems, and there are ALOT of dummies in the US who really make me wonder how they squeak by in the game of life. However if someone despises me on the mere fact I live here, then I have no problem telling them to go shove it up their stinkstars!.

& to ask me if I even know where Slovania is??? Is like asking you if you know what a bass trap is!

[Db]

To Guitardad72: Refreshing to know there's at least one person out there that is a pretty close mirror-image to myself (nice pun huh?) Yep, I will admit, I am one crazy anal retentive mofo who is always pushing the envelope and trying to do things as nice as possible. Mainly that concerns my work mentallity and musical aspirations. I have extensive DIY and creative skills, and have been working with my hands fabricating various things for over 20 years.

I'm really suprised you found parts of the original post, which I belive also had a long introduction, a pic, and an added sketchup as well. At any rate, those plans changed, The build is currently ongoing and has already started. A window plug and, all framing with exception of the cloud if done thus far. I didnt want to finish and THEN come here just for others to rip it apart and tell me, you should have done this, or why didnt you do that? Nice to know all the time and effort was really worthwhile and not wasted. See, In my line of work, I have get it right the first time, or I loose time & money fixing botched jobs, not to mention customers who get upset too! Needles to say, my trade is full of hacks! and I am one of the few who actually try to take pride in my work, and my music. Nice to know there is another who feels the pain -Best of luck to you guitardad72.

[Mark Fassett]

pardon?? In what way am I "anti-semitic" in stating that I'm more likely to consider language difficulties from people from eastern bloc countries like Slovenia?

Do you even know where Slovenia is?

I doubt it.

Simply amazing! How you could misunderstand this John is beyond me, it had NOTHING to do with language difficulties, or people in the European region of the world. So I will refer you to the comment you made that I was not very fond of.

"it is not specifically designed for Americans who think the world revolves around them and them alone"

Your comment seemed "aimed" at me, the key word here is American, if you think I am some bratty spoiled American who expects everything to be handed to them you are dead wrong!

DB - Calling John's remarks Anti-Semitic is an incorrect usage of the term. He wasn't talking about Jews. He was talking about Americans. For reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

[Ethan Winer]

Actually Ethan, I was considering hiring you as a consultant, but I felt your fee for what little I was asking you to do for me was too much money. Concerning the fee you said "it was a gift" I'm sure you remember me now.

Sorry, I don't recall. I email and speak in person to a lot of people every day. I'm not sure what you mean about "gift" but I do have a policy of requesting a deposit against a future purchase when people have questions that go beyond normal pre-sales advice. Is that what you're referring to?

It has become a real problem lately for me as several new companies have popped up selling cheap acoustic products at cut-throat prices. Quite a few times I've been tricked into offering extensive advice only to have someone later go to one of these companies that sell cheap knock-offs of RealTraps products, or build their own treatment. And "tricked" is the right word. They wanted personal consulting but wanted me to do that for free. They know my advice is better than what they'd get from most other vendors, but they're not willing to pay for it.

I gladly give the best advice I can in this forum and dozens of others every single day. But I draw the line at one-on-one personal consulting, and when someone wants that they have to either pay me for the time or at least buy a few RealTraps products.

This happened recently with a doctor (read: well-heeled), who tried to trick me into helping him design his room, plan the dimensions and placements, and even wanted me to help him with supplementary DIY treatment. He promised me he planned to buy 10 MiniTraps, but when I asked him for a small deposit against that sale he wrote me a nasty email! Imagine, how rude of me to expect to be paid for providing a professional service. The nerve! And it would have been free, if he really did plan to buy from RealTraps. But it's clear he had no such intention.

I have a dozen similar stories I could bore y'all with, like the time I spent an hour drawing up custom plans and placement diagrams for someone only to read in a forum two weeks later that they bought cheap knock-offs of our stuff from someone else.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. If you know of a better way for me to offer first class service while avoiding being taken advantage of, I'm all ears.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Mario,

4. Testing wars:

It looks like the problem with acoustics is that room is like one big musical instrument, so you would need to test the whole room (more or less). This is why this is so tricky, and results depend more on experience.

It's even deeper than that. I understand dB's frustration with the stupid "acoustics war" that's been going on for more than four years now. At some point it's tempting to give up trying to figure out who's right and who's wrong, and just tar everyone with the same brush. I'm sure the guys who started and perpetuated this war realize their folly, because it's now biting them in the ass big-time! dB's post also makes it clear that such infighting only harms everyone. But it looks to me like it's pretty much over at this point anyway.

As for testing acoustic products, that's only half of the story. There's no question that many of these products get the job done. Aside from a few incompetently designed panels that have rigid backs which reduce their effective as corner absorbers. And a few that have fabric too dense to be useful at reflection points. Or companies like Foam By Mail that sell cheap packing foam with fraudulent data. So the three main differences as I see it are:

1) The specific curve of absorption versus frequency, which is very important in a room that has enough traps to truly solve the worst of the bass problems.

2) The quality of construction and workmanship and how nice they look. You can get the same 50 dB of mic pre gain from a $39 Behringer mixer as from an Avalon or Lavry. But I doubt anyone would consider the Behringer as equal!

3) The quality of technical advice - not only advice about which products to buy and where to put them, but most people also have a lot of unrelated room and setup questions.

As I see it, these three things matter even more than which bass trap has 0.1 Sabins higher absorption at this or that frequency.

--Ethan

[Mario Petrinovich]

1)
2)
3)
As I see it, these three things matter even more than which bass trap has 0.1 Sabins higher absorption at this or that frequency. --Ethan

Hi Ethan!
I didn't try your product, nor I will (here in Croatia, and I have plans to threat the whole room), but it sure looks like a well done thing.
You wanted to develop this specific type of threatment, usefull in so many ways, and you've got really good reviews of it (as much as I could find). You are a top act, and I wish you all the best in your bussines.
Tell me, did you think about varying density of absorption (the deeper, the densier). I believe that Mordaunt-Short Performance 6 loudspeakers (internal absorption) achieved good results that way (if I didn't misunderstand something)? -- Mario

[sharward]

Can I nominate this thread for "Most Bizarre Thread on John's Site for 2006"?

[Db]

Ethan,

My apologies, I figured you'd remember since it was less than a month ago. I should have figured you have a bazillion people sending you emails due to your popularity, and may not remember me at all.

To further who I am, we emailed 3-4 times back and forth, I noticed you were an avid cat lover, being that I am too, I sent you a pic of my beloved kitties which I called "knuckleheads" you were kind enough to send me a pic of Bear getting into trouble shredding mags all over the floor, I further commented that I didnt see anything for him to claw on in your living room pics and perhaps he needs a post or something.

If that doesn't ring a bell for you, then don't worry about it, no big deal

Ethan-, I have read many numerous posts of yours across the internet, and I must say this on your regards. When faced with someone outright bashing you, you still maintain the integrity of a true gentlemen. This may have something to do with the fact you have a company selling products here, but I doubt that, judging by your responses I can clearly see that you are well-mannered by nature, and not focused on being nice just to turn a profit. For that respect, I will gladly do the same in return and show you the same courtesy you extended to myself. You came in on this thread with an open mind, and knew I was pretty pissed-off over the whole matter here. You chose to try to communicate with me, and offer some help/understanding of what the REAL issue of this thread is. For that I commend you, most certainly a gentlemen and a scholar you are, as some others would rather pour fuel onto the fire making the situation worse! I wish I could have a mentallity more like yours, I'm sure it will mellow with age, but at this point in my life I am most certainly not afraid to speak my mind or tell someone off who deserves it. It may not make me the most popular person, but at least I have the balls to stand up for myself once in a while and not be farm sheep-baaaaaaa!

Perhaps I'll chill out completely once my balls start to shrivel too!

[Db]

DB - Calling John's remarks Anti-Semitic is an incorrect usage of the term. He wasn't talking about Jews. He was talking about Americans. For reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism[/quote]

Mark, thank you for clarifying that, & you are absolutely right, and I am absolutely wrong using that terminology, I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, and wont make that error again. I should have said descriminatory or possibly something more p.c.

Although I did use incorrect terminology, I am pretty sure my intended meaning did get across. Kinda like bass trap being a "generic" term.

Even though it had absolutley NOTHING to do with acoustics, you DID teach me something that I was way off base on. -I thank you for that.