What gives??? why ignore those who try to make the effort?

[Db]

I would like to know just why many times people put up a post concerning their bedroom studios, or trying to use a room for mixing and tracking, and guess what! NOBODY helps them out. Obviously some don't deserve a response, but what about those sincere and trying to make the extra effort? Just what gives????

I did the same thing, spent hundreds, and I mean hundreds of hours trying to get the necessary info/planning, which led me to this site. I did a sketchup, which nearly caused me a mid-life mental breakdown, but I did it. I read all of your guidelines, didnt ask any moronic questions, and put up a post, and didn't bump it. -Well, same thing! Nobody cared to respond. Do we have to donate first just to get on the answering list? I thought I followed all the rules, and jumped through many a hoops just to appease members in asking for their help.

Some folks have a limited budget and can't spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on their studio. I know that doesn't interest you as much as some of the more serious builds-but you can't even think of doing a serious all out build without starting off small and possibly working up to a much larger design/studio-right?. So why turn your backs on the little guys? All of you big guys were once nobodies too at one point in time.

I have already started my room build, because I was tired of waiting for a response to my questions that seemingly were never going to be answered. So my room will be built the best way I know how, with or without the help of others here. I have the will and the definate determination to make a small dream come true for me. So my build is 100% going to happen and will be my reality very soon! I'd really like to think that someone here could offer suggestions to help better my project, & I'll bet that some of the other "little guy" members here feel the same way - so what gives???

[Mario Petrinovich]

I wouldn't blame people here. They are really willing to help, and they do that. But, acoustics is tricky bussines. If you take a look at plans people here are offering, they are mostly the same. They have experience with that plan, so they are confident that it will work. But, if you do something too much away from this basic plan, it becames more and more tricky. There are not too much basic principles developed yet, and you would need time to develop all those strange details, and put all this together, do some meassuring, change, gain experience. Folks here are mostly helping with classic studio designs (just like the title says). I too am trying to design my room as a critical listening room.
BTW, besides all their willing to help, they will not do the thing for you. They expect from you, not only to do a Sketch up thing, but to do everything else (thorough design) yourself. It is really up to you to do everything yourself. When you are done with it, only then you come here to present your plan, and they can help if they notice you messed something. But before that, they really expect from you to go deep enough into all this, and they will only help with their experience to complement your inexperience. Otherwise they charge. I mean, this is a lot of help for free. People are vasting their precious time here.
But, OTOH, if you room is of classic, clean shape, they will do an explanatory desing, so that others can learn from it. Thery made few of them. Search for: Soulfood (from my neighbouring Slovenia), PCM, mmcfarlane. -- Mario

[Ethan Winer]

Nobody cared to respond. Do we have to donate first just to get on the answering list?

I can't speak for the others here, but I help out when I can, and when the questions are about something I actually know about. I was going to look for previous posts from you to try to figure out why nobody answered, but this post above seems to be your first! So I'm really at a loss...

--Ethan

[sharward]

Hey Db...

How come you registered with a new account, instead of posting on the account under which you posted your original questions? Are you hiding your identity for some reason?

Look... Sometimes threads fall through the cracks. Some of the most knowledgeable people on the forum, moderators included, have multiple priorities in their lives, and sometimes can't spend as much time as they'd like on here helping folks out for free.

I've also noticed that the forum has exploded in popularity over the nearly two years that I've been a member. While that's a great thing, it seems to me that the ratio of experts to those who need assistance may have dropped a bit as well.

There's no conspiracy, dB. People are just busy.

Although bumping your thread is discouraged, sometimes it is necessary if, say, a week or more goes by and you don't get a response... Just be reasonable about it.

I know you're frustrated, but the tone of your post ("Just what gives???? . . . just to appease members . . . why turn your backs on the little guys? . . . I was tired of waiting for a response to my questions that seemingly were never going to be answered. . .") doesn't exactly inspire me to want to help much...

--Keith

[guitardad72]

What's my bottom line on this subject...

This is a FREE to join forum. Answers, replies & comments are given FREE of charge.

Out of all the subjects in the world you could be come interested in, sound isolation and acoustics of a room is not a forefront conversational piece on the minds of most people, by far. Even worse it's a subject of grave misunderstanding by folks who should have at least a little bit of knowledge.

The folks who browse and post on this on other forums like this forum, are few and far between. We are lucky to have this resource to share.

I think most come looking for advice.

A few of us, as we learn take the time to help others out.

Less of us (like Sharward, myself, DanF, Andy E, Aaron and many others) take the time TRY and document everything thing in are builds, take pictures, ask as we go, share and for the most part enjoy the conversation with others seeking a goal that very few people have.

Could say this forum is the closest thing to "Trading Spaces" or "Home Improve Show" for wanna be studio builders.

AND let me not forget to mention we do have several industry Pros, such as JohnS, Rod G, Ethan, Eric D, and I think even Steve (Knightfly)... each with there own areas of expertise. Also manufactures of products we use post here.

I will also say God Bless Steve and Sharward who both try to at least reply and converse with every poster who is following the guide lines.

Again I'll say: this is a FREE resource.

I've been on this forum for almost a year now. In fact Ethan Winer is the one who directed me hear from a forum he mods.... don't' know if Ethan remembers but I posted on his forum asking about if it was a good or bad idea to put bookshelves, file cabs and other things all around my studio room.... now I'm at 435 posts on this forum, and no book selve planned on walls .

Sometimes this forum goes through inactive periods. Sometimes it's like people are cross talking as many members post at the same time and even get overlapping answers/posts to questions.

Sometimes when a question is asked:

- Non of us wanna be's who are still learning have the answer.
- The more experienced are just busy, like we all are and don't see the question/post.
- Sometimes not enough info is given to answer.
- Sometimes the answer is not clear to those looking, even experts.
- Sometimes the answer has already been given to many times.

Personally sometimes I'm done with posting and have to go to bed.
Also I try to limit how many conversations I get involved with.

Db

How about you just bump your thread, or re-post over in Design.

The construction forum on this site is the busiest.

I too have felt your frustration, many questions I've had and have gone unanswered. Sometimes takes some digging to find answer.

I hope you keep coming back here and once you've gained knowledge from acoustically treating your space... you'll take the time to help other out. We need it.

Marc

[Db]

I wouldn't blame people here. They are really willing to help, and they do that. But, acoustics is tricky bussines. If you take a look at plans people here are offering, they are mostly the same. They have experience with that plan, so they are confident that it will work. But, if you do something too much away from this basic plan, it becames more and more tricky. There are not too much basic principles developed yet, and you would need time to develop all those strange details, and put all this together, do some meassuring, change, gain experience. Folks here are mostly helping with classic studio designs (just like the title says). I too am trying to design my room as a critical listening room.
BTW, besides all their willing to help, they will not do the thing for you. They expect from you, not only to do a Sketch up thing, but to do everything else (thorough design) yourself. It is really up to you to do everything yourself. When you are done with it, only then you come here to present your plan, and they can help if they notice you messed something. But before that, they really expect from you to go deep enough into all this, and they will only help with their experience to complement your inexperience. Otherwise they charge. I mean, this is a lot of help for free. People are vasting their precious time here.
But, OTOH, if you room is of classic, clean shape, they will do an explanatory desing, so that others can learn from it. Thery made few of them. Search for: Soulfood (from my neighbouring Slovenia), PCM, mmcfarlane. -- Mario

Hey Mario,
I appreciate you responding with a very sincere response. Looks like your in the same boat as myself wanting to better our situations. I merely wrote this post so that I myself, and other members with non-responses can get a little clarity. Some just let it go, but I am too old and too ballsy enough, so I am not afraid to speak my mind, even if it risks the fact that I may upset some folks. Mario, dont take anything I am about to say as being directed towards you, just venting/explaining myself a little better here.

I will totally agree with you on the tricky business of acoustics, so far I have learned these unsettling facts across the internet, I wish I didnt

1. BB patronizing- I'm not a 13 yr old kid, I only try to ask questions that I have diffuculty with, or cant find the answer for. So someone redirecting me back to the manuals I have already read is pretty redundant and not really helping the matter. If this was the way the world worked, our schools would not require any teachers, heck we wouldnt even have to build the school itself. Kids could stay home with their nose in a book all day, and when one point is not understood, do we tell them: Hey you better read the entire thing all over again!

2. Terminology wars: Can we all decide what is a bass trap? -nuff said

3. Product wars: People pissing all over each other trying to prove/disprove this that and the other. Makes me NOT want to buy anything from any of them!

4. Testing wars: The old pissfest of who has the best products? By what standards are they measured? That was a different lab..... and so on. Why dont you bigger acoustic panel companies all take your black magic devices and put them to the test under the same conditions at the same lab? My guess is that some company may be worried that their product isnt up to snuff with the rest, OR that some are way too overpriced and offer hardly more effectiveness that cheaper solutions, or the losers of the test claim the results were skewed to make them look bad. It would be refreshing to see a comparison on effectiveness vs. cost per dollar and not just comparing a $50 panel to a $300 panel.

5. Non responses- covered in the above first post

6. Questions that are answered very vaguely. Do some gurus pride themselves in the fact that they did answer the question correctly, but not in a manner in which the person who needs the explanation can hardly understand it, and must ask even more questions on top of it? Kinda like an answer trapped within a riddle.

How do these points I mentioned help anyone? simply they don't.

Mario, nice of you to point me to other peoples threads, but I do have some comments concerning Soulfoods posts. Now Soulfood, if you read this post, I mean you no disrespect, but Im suprised that folks were helping you, due to the fact, of the constant bumping of topics, an innacurate measured room, reading the rules after posting, and would cost you significantly more to build than your proposed budget. Like I said, I mean no disrespect towards this member, but it seems he was doing alot of things that makes nobody want to respond, but yet he was getting the help needed. Sorry man, had to use you as an example, I hope your build becomes a reality soon for you too Soulfood.

In no ways do I expect anyone here to spoonfeed me, and I have been working my ass off to make this happen, so much so that it is starting to ruin my personal/musical life. If I find a better way of doing it that is affordable to me, I most certainly will. I am most certainly not going to spend the rest of my days on internet BB's, or trying to get a masters degree in acoustics, I am a musician first and foremost. I was hoping that I could leave something behind (meaning a complete build) for othersthat have a similar situation as mine to follow up on, and make it easier for them, that's all.

[Db]

Nobody cared to respond. Do we have to donate first just to get on the answering list?

I can't speak for the others here, but I help out when I can, and when the questions are about something I actually know about. I was going to look for previous posts from you to try to figure out why nobody answered, but this post above seems to be your first! So I'm really at a loss...

--Ethan

Actually Ethan, I was considering hiring you as a consultant, but I felt your fee for what little I was asking you to do for me was too much money. Concerning the fee you said "it was a gift" I'm sure you remember me now.

And no, this was not my first post. You cant find it because after weeks of patiently waiting to be responded to, I just deleted it figuring I must have done something wrong, but now that I look back I dont think that was the issue. So I was at a loss and started this ranting post.

[Db]

Hey Db...

How come you registered with a new account, instead of posting on the account under which you posted your original questions? Are you hiding your identity for some reason?

Look... Sometimes threads fall through the cracks. Some of the most knowledgeable people on the forum, moderators included, have multiple priorities in their lives, and sometimes can't spend as much time as they'd like on here helping folks out for free.

I've also noticed that the forum has exploded in popularity over the nearly two years that I've been a member. While that's a great thing, it seems to me that the ratio of experts to those who need assistance may have dropped a bit as well.

There's no conspiracy, dB. People are just busy.

Although bumping your thread is discouraged, sometimes it is necessary if, say, a week or more goes by and you don't get a response... Just be reasonable about it.

I know you're frustrated, but the tone of your post ("Just what gives???? . . . just to appease members . . . why turn your backs on the little guys? . . . I was tired of waiting for a response to my questions that seemingly were never going to be answered. . .") doesn't exactly inspire me to want to help much...

--Keith

Sharward, This is the ONLY user name I have ever registered here at this site, there is no veil to who I am.

Saying people are just busy, as you watch all the other posts get answered day in and day out, is simply doesnt cut the mustard! All it seems like is a good excuse for respondendts to ignore folks and justify it as being polite, but is actually silent rudeness.

Hmm, Now bumping is OK as long as it is reasonable- Yeah but to whom?
Perhaps the rules pages should be revised if that is the case so nothing gets misconstrued.

ANd YES! Very frustrated with this whole ordeal I am, This is probably going to be my once in a lifetime chance of making a small dream come true. So for you to say: "doesnt exactly inspire me to want to help much", all I have to say to that is- Not like you offered me any previous help, and odds are you probably read my very first original posting.

[John Sayers]

Db - I'm sorry but I can't always keep up with everyones posts. At the moment I'm on dialup waiting for my adsl to be transferred to my new number. When I log on I get a series of new posts - I can't possibly answer then all but next time I log on it accepts that they've been read.

If I miss your post then damn well BUMP it!! it helps me out as it makes me notice posts that I have previously missed.

cheers
john

BTW - the only posts listed from you as DB are the posts in this thread. So where is the other post you made that was ignored and you are so arrogantly upset about.

also - soulfood is from Slovenia - english is obviously not his first language so allowance has been made in his case - this is an international forum - it is not specifically designed for americans who think the whole world revolves around them and them alone.

If you have a bedroom you wish to fix have you bothered to read all the potst of the thousands of other similar bedroom studios we have fixed on this forum??

Have you read this site??

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

[Db]

What's my bottom line on this subject...

I hope you keep coming back here and once you've gained knowledge from acoustically treating your space... you'll take the time to help other out. We need it.

Marc

Marc,
I coudnt agree with you more. Thats was my original plan! I had every intention of highly detailing a build just as you guys do, and hope my situation could help out someone else in a similar situation, and help out others if I am able to. I've seen WAY too many post of what people SAY their going to do, but never comes to pass or never is completed. With builds that dont get built-think of all the precious member time that wastes. I am serious as a heart-attack, and feel my design is pretty good, but was hoping if could be better just like most would hope for.

It's too bad I didn't have the opprotunity to meet people such as you Marc from the get go. By now I'll bet most members think I am a pretty big A-hole for saying all of this-but I felt it had to be said. At any rate seems like I'm becoming the back-sheep of this site and not making friends fast (definately not my intention) So I may just bug out, and dissappear of this site for good, and not cop-out and re-register with a new name. Its okay, I guess I wont be missed

[Db]

Db - I'm sorry but I can't always keep up with everyones posts. At the moment I'm on dialup waiting for my adsl to be transferred to my new number. When I log on I get a series of new posts - I can't possibly answer then all but next time I log on it accepts that they've been read.

If I miss your post then damn well BUMP it!! it helps me out as it makes me notice posts that I have previously missed.

cheers
john

BTW - the only posts listed from you as DB are the posts in this thread. So where is the other post you made that was ignored and you are so arrogantly upset about.

also - soulfood is from Slovenia - english is obviously not his first language so allowance has been made in his case - this is an international forum - it is not specifically designed for americans who think the whole world revolves around them and them alone.

If you have a bedroom you wish to fix have you bothered to read all the potst of the thousands of other similar bedroom studios we have fixed on this forum??

Have you read this site??

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Mr. Sayers,

-It's not that you didnt answer my original post, rather no-one chose to.

-On a rebuttle to EW, I already explained that I deleted it, Weeks went by as I noticed you and others responding seemingly to everyone but me. Someone had to notice the zero next to my post as it slipped down the list. Looking constantly for a answer that seemingly was being ignored started to give me false hope-thus deleted.

-If I would have known about reasonable bumping, then I would have done so. I chose not to bump out of respect to you, your site and your rules.

-Concerning Soulfood, I mentioned twice that I meant absolutely no disrespect, but they were all bonafide facts, and was merely using him as an example only. HOWEVER- for you John to comment with such an anti-semetic remark was appauling, more or less out of line. Do you have something against Americans? Funny, I thought you Aussies spoke english too. I fully realize this forum is international and would never disrespect someone based on the country they live in.

-And yes John, I did bother to read just about every post concerning small bedrooms like mine, I wouldn't be so "arrogant" if I didnt. Concerning what I am after, there is only a handful that I found, after weeding through the thousands of posts. Everybody setup is slightly different, I dont want to copy-cat another studio, rather what works for me and is best for my situation- thats all.

JS- This whole mess was NEVER my intention, but I have seen other members asking for reasonable help and not getting it, even if they bumped it a bunch of times. I thought it was time somebody stood up in the crowd, as per my thread title, what gives?

[sharward]

. . . for you to say: "doesnt exactly inspire me to want to help much", all I have to say to that is- Not like you offered me any previous help, and odds are you probably read my very first original posting.

I don't know squat about acoustics. My focus from Day One on this site has been how to construct a soundproof room, about which I have learned a great deal, and about which I put forth great effort to attempt to "pay it forward" as they say.

And since you deleted your posting, I have no idea whether or not I viewed it. Odds are I didn't, as I don't usually venture into the Acoustics forum that often. (And, quite frankly, I'd rather be the one to post "odds" on my own likelihood of viewing posts on this forum, thankyouverymuch. )

OK -- I'm done here!

--Keith

[sharward]

Actually, I found his original post (#7279, now deleted of course) in Google's cache. It's attached below as a PDF.

The image is gone though -- it disappeared with the post when it was deleted.

So, for those who aren't clueless about acoustics as I am... Anyone care to take a stab now?

--Keith

[John Sayers]

HOWEVER- for you John to comment with such an anti-semetic remark was appauling, more or less out of line.

pardon?? In what way am I "anti-semitic" in stating that I'm more likely to consider language difficulties from people from eastern bloc countries like Slovenia?

Do you even know where Slovenia is?

I doubt it.

perhaps if you were to post your original problem in the Design Forum, where we talk about design problems, as opposed to Acoustics where acoustics is the discussion, you might get a reply but judging by your attitude, I'd doubt it.

[guitardad72]

By now I'll bet most members think I am a pretty big A-hole for saying all of this-but I felt it had to be said.

IMHO... NO!!!, welcome to the club. I can only speak for myself and guess that others on this forum may feel or act the same as I. IF someone is willing to go to the extent that most readers and posters of this forum do, then YES you are a little out of the norm... what word you use to describe that your choice... in my mind perfectionist, anal, over board leading to those who work around you thinking you're an A-hole because you're doing things they don't understand then fine.

In my group of co-workers/musicians I am known as the A-hole AND I'm content with it, so are they. Basically if you don't want to know what I really think then don't ask.

-If I would have known about reasonable bumping, then I would have done so. I chose not to bump out of respect to you, your site and your rules.

YES WE BUMP... and clearly mark the post so other forum members know that you've bumped it. "BUMP!!!!" will do just fine. Knightfly (Steve) will even post a thread every now and then when he can't post, or hasn't been able to post for a while asking us to BUMP are threads with unanswered questions.

HOWEVER- for you John to comment with such an anti-semetic remark was appalling, more or less out of line. Do you have something against Americans? Funny, I thought you Aussies spoke english too. I fully realize this forum is international and would never disrespect someone based on the country they live in.

this is an international forum - it is not specifically designed for americans who think the whole world revolves around them and them alone.

Now only if John were to put the word "MOST" in front of Americans, then the statement would be true.... I'll explain.

I am a Canadian 34 yrs old, moved to USA permanently 7 years ago. Have traveled all of Canada, most of USA and a large part of Europe.

Why Johns statement is true is not the average Americans fault, it's just the life style, school system, political system and mainly the MEDIA. To understand, one would have to take a more worldly view of things then most Americans have to opportunity to have. Travel is one way to do it and not just a vacation. The US media, mainly news networks do not broadcast "world" stories nearly as much as other countries do. US news is broadcast all around the world via CNN and other networks. Most news broadcast in the USA is about USA. The USA is the largest exporter in the world because of MEDIA> Movies, TV, music, etc... the effect is most other countries are very aware of what is happening in the US and in comparison most Americans do not know much about the rest of the world simply because they are not exposed to it.

I won't even begin on what the US school system teaches about history, mostly limited to US history which is only a few 100 years old. Columbus discovered America, 1492... MY ASS... Leif Erikson settled in North America, Newfoundland specifically before Columbus AND others were here before him too,... Why politics plays a role (not just US history) TO change actual written history, write songs about it for children, I'll never understand.

Did you know the 1st US Congress meeting was held at a bar.

BUT it still is a good thing to be patriotic right, at least pretend.

This whole topic is the thing I miss the most about Canada.

I could go on and on for this topic, but bottom line, I would not take Johns comment as an insult... you got to undersand the comment from Johns perspective.

OK I read you're questions but could not see the pic.

Question1 Is there a happy medium for 1&2? Intended use of the space: (which is 9.2x9.8x8 feet drywalled w/carpet)
The closet can be hidden (preferred), but must be accessible. Plans were to put Pc in adjacent rooms closet.
1. Mixing room for my original projects: Do my best with mixing my original music, and If I feel strongly about the
recordings, send it out to a proper mastering facility
2. Tracking room to record my loud tube amps: I play guitar, and I have a 100w slp 1/2 stack, a real 65 super reverb,
and a drz maz18jr. So I realize these can only go so loud to record without police at my door. These amps must stay in
the room, I can go/play in another for loud tracking.

YES there is a happy medium, you're going to be challenged by the size of your room. Lot's of us on the forum have planned, are building or have built the one room studio.

Question2: I had intentions of placing a 34" face superchunk in each of my rooms corners, however from a floorplan
view, it appears as I am turning it into a octagonal shape, I'm thinking I better reconsider. As much as I can appreciate
all the high end design on this site, my design will have to work within the constraints of the already drywall built
room, and a budget (750-1000 dollars? -more??? I have aboult half that for materials and am anxious to get started,)

Basically:
That budget might be low.
You are going to need to find a way to test your room to find the trouble frequencies.
You need to place your speakers and yourself in the right spot (read link John gave you)
Basically you'll start by using broadband absorbers, aiming at the low end, superchunk is a good choice.
Your going to need absorbers to take care of early reflections on side walls and by use of a cloud and other things.
Also got to take care of decay of sound.
Carpet on the floor ain't the best.
Once you've got the above things going, test room and then IF you want to attempt to make it perfect adjust absorbers you've already built OR leave room for more absorbers that you can tune to trouble frequencies like maybe a slot resonator (or other).
"octagonal shape".... well it could be worse, you'll have to make the best of what space you have and the amount of funds you can build with.

To figure how to do all the above, do as you've been doing... SEARCH this site. Read the SAE site.

AND final thought, when we post politely with respect, and post good questions we get more out of it. Others are more willing to respond.

Marc