Valve mic preamp?

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:12 am

I know this is a stupid question, but I don't know much about these things.
I plan to buy Behringer ECM8000 mike for measuring. They sell Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200 preamp over here (they don't have MIC100). I plan to buy it. Now, I am little bit puzzled about the "tube" thing. Would it work well for measuring? Wouldn't tube colorate things? Thanks. -- Mario

thermionic · Post by **thermionic** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:47 pm

In an ideal world, there should be no difference in performance between solid-state and valve preamp designs; as Tim de Paravincini says, "electrons have no memory". You will find that top-end valve designs can sound just as analytical as pro solid-state designs.

However, in the case of the Beh preamps, they are engineered to sound overtly coloured, and have only 40v Plate voltage - this is what's known as a "starved plate" design. Some people may like this kind of colouration, but it's definitely not what I would choose for a measurement preamp.

For measurement I would choose a "Forensic Grade" preamp. The top units would be something along the lines of a GML or Millennia, but these are costly and probably excessive for measurement.

I would expect a clean, budget solid-state design such as a Rane preamp to work very well indeed, and it shouldn't cost that much more than the Beh. In fact, the Rane preamp won a shootout a few years ago against expensive competition.

Google

Ebay Example

Hope this helps!

Justin

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:18 pm

thermionic wrote:I would expect a clean, budget solid-state design such as a Rane preamp to work very well indeed, and it shouldn't cost that much more than the Beh. In fact, the Rane preamp won a shootout a few years ago against expensive competition.

Hope this helps!

Justin

Thanks Justin, very much. This helped tremendously (because I really don't know anything about it).
I even found the place to buy it, here in Croatia. Now, it looks like there is another problem with (the output of) it. Will I be able to connect it to computer, somehow? If not, do you know maybe some other preamp which I will be able to connect to computer.
Thanks, again. -- Mario

thermionic · Post by **thermionic** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:43 am

I haven't personally used either of these soundcards, but they're recommended by a company that makes measurement software and aren't too expensive: http://www.libinst.com/ESI_AUDIOTRAK%20CARDS.htm

I'm sure the regulars here will have their own favourite suggestions so hold tight.

Justin

edit: Neither of the above suggestions have mic-amps so you'll need something like the Rane mic-amp - at $30USD on Ebay I'm even thinking of getting one, and I work for a company that makes discrete mic amps

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:19 am

thermionic wrote:I haven't personally used either of these soundcards, but they're recommended by a company that makes measurement software and aren't too expensive: http://www.libinst.com/ESI_AUDIOTRAK%20CARDS.htm

100-150$ just for a soundcard is too much for me. I plan to buy new PC sound card (because my SB Live! is too old, now), but new one will be regular PC card, costing 40$. I am not into recording, just need something to plug microphone into PC, for measuring acoustics of my room, while I "play" with it. -- Mario

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:30 pm

Mario, what are you using for measurement software and does it compensate for cheap sound cards like ETF does? IF so, then all you need is an inexpensive preamp with phantom power - the "too hot" level can be padded down with a voltage divider so it won't overpower your computer sound card. You'd need about 24 dB pad for this IIRC... Steve

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:08 am

knightfly wrote:Mario, what are you using for measurement software and does it compensate for cheap sound cards like ETF does? IF so, then all you need is an inexpensive preamp with phantom power - the "too hot" level can be padded down with a voltage divider so it won't overpower your computer sound card. You'd need about 24 dB pad for this IIRC... Steve

I just came from 12-hour shift, which began at 4:30am, but I'll try to figure out what we are talking about,

.
Right now I am just starting to "play" with this. Here, in Croatia, things are going slowly (not enough money to waste). I plan to buy ETF in about 40 days. Mic and preamp in about 10 days.
You are saying that cheap preamp that I'll buy will need to be threated with something called voltage divider. Ok, I got a picture, thanks. I'll try to find more info about it on the Net, and If I'll have something that I don't understand, I know where I'll ask for help,

. Thanks. -- Mario

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:59 am

Ok, it looks like I decided what to buy.
I'll buy Behringer mic. I presume that via XLR I will connect it to mic preamp. Preamp will be either Rane MS-1 or M-Audio Audio Buddy. Rane has only XLR output, but Audio Buddy has 1/4" balanced/unbalanced output. I will buy M-Audio Transit USB card. This has 1/8" (stereo analog/optical digital) input.
I don't know if there are XLR-1/8" adapters, or if I would need to make it myself. I know that there are 1/4"-1/8" adapters. So, since it is an USB card, would there be problems in connecting Rane (XLR-1/8") or Audio Buddy (1/4"-1/8")? Thanks. -- Mario

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:08 am

Actually, I found another product by M-Audio, which should suit me well. I believe that M-Audio Mobilepre USB (www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB-main.html) has the function of both, mic preamp and USB sound card, so I should rather buy this instead of separate USB sound card and mic preamp). -- Mario

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:08 am

Looks like that has everything you need... Steve

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:11 pm

knightfly wrote:Looks like that has everything you need... Steve

Exactly. Thanks very much for your help. And thanks very much to Justin, who have set me on the right track. -- Mario

Eric_Desart · Post by **Eric_Desart** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:02 pm

A possible alternative a bit cheaper.
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html

(I have this one, but haven't used it yet, feels very sturdy/stable).
It's tested for compatibility for test purposes with DSSF3 (rather quality program). It also has build-in Mic pre-amp.

http://www.ymec.com/products/dssf3e/index.htm
http://www.ymec.com/manual/install/equi ... #soundcard

But I can't compare them both since I haven't seen the M-Audio.
Just got this one, because it was easy accessible, and noted as good and compatible by good measurement software.

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:35 am

Eric_Desart wrote:A possible alternative a bit cheaper.
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html

Thanks. I surfed a little. It looks like those two are products to choose, if you need something like this. It could be that 122 is now replaced by 122L. This isn't cheaper than Mobilepre. It could be twice as expensive (but I don't know correct price in Croatia, since they didn't put it on the Net). 122 is 24 bit (Mobilepre only 16 bit) and has MIDI. I hardly stretched to the price of Mobilepre, and for 24 bit I could pay 1/3rd more, but two times more would be too expensive.
That link from Ymec you provided, about devices for sound meauserement, was excellent for somebody like me. Thanks for all the info. -- Mario

Mario Petrinovich · Post by **Mario Petrinovich** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:52 am

Oops. 122 is still in production (actually, that link that you provided is from Tascam site,

). -- Mario

Eric_Desart · Post by **Eric_Desart** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:28 am

At Amazone the 122 is ca 146 $ or something. It's a bit more here (Belgium).
But the one you referred in in special discount at Amazone < 100$.