FINISHED IN 2020! Sharward's Partial Garage Conversion

WiseMindsRecordingStudios · Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:58 pm

Nice work bro!! Way to use and abuse that rental!! The FatMax Laser is the schnizzle!! I can't sell mine...I keep finding new uses for it.

Anyway, keep dem piccys comin.

Post by **sharward** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:11 pm

Aw, shucks -- that's nothin'! You should see how I abused my trusty little convertible when I had it! (I sold it to buy this about six months ago.)

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:22 am

Are you going to remove those form boards after the pour? If so, you might want to make those 1x2 cleats push the top of the form board "in" (i.e., toward the new concrete) just a bit so that you'll have a little space behind them to make them come out easier. I don't think it would have to be a noticable amount, just enough to loosen up a bit when it's time to remove them.

len

Post by **sharward** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:29 am

Yes, Len, that's exactly the plan!

I plan to rock the stakes side to side to loosen them after the pour -- that's the main reason I'm not trimming them off at the top of the forms so that I have more leverage. They'll get in the way a bit during the screeding process, but oh well!

I'll take more pictures from a "top-down" angle so you can see the gap between the stakes and the existing concrete.

Thanks for taking time to notice these details, Len!

--Keith

Post by **sharward** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:15 pm

Yayyyy! The first pour forms are set!

I managed to do pretty well I think!

They're so sturdy that I can actually stand or walk on them and they don't budge! (And I'm no lightweight either -- about 250# actually!!

)

Tomorrow I'm going to backfill and tamp the deepest areas of the trenches, widen the trenches in some areas, and hopefully get started on placing the crushed rock I saved. Tomorrow's supposed to be sunny -- it should be a nice day to schlep wheelbarrows full of rocks! (Sincere condolences to all you folks suffering in the briskly cold weather throughout the US!)

Now before anyone asks... I will eventually be using a vibratory plate compactor similar to this one:

Alright -- time for "piccies" as Sir Woodlock would say!

Now try not to laugh at some of the goofy looking bracing behind the stakes along the walls...

...I just used various scraps of lumber I didn't have the heart to throw away (and am now very glad I didn't!) with minimal cutting needed.

Did I mention that they're really sturdy?!

--Keith

Dan Fitzpatrick · Post by **Dan Fitzpatrick** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:16 pm

"Pleased with the sturdiness" ... i like that, can i use that in my thread?

Good to see you making progress on your project, Keith!

Especially that part about putting 16 foot boards in a compact car ... i thought I was nuts putting 16 footers in my minivan

Good luck with the inspection!

Post by **sharward** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:37 pm

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:"Pleased with the sturdiness" ... i like that, can i use that in my thread?

Good to see you making progress on your project, Keith!

Yeah, it's good to be back in the saddle.

Especially that part about putting 16 foot boards in a compact car ... i thought I was nuts putting 16 footers in my minivan

Yeah, that was something else, huh? The boards were about an inch or two from the windshield! I used cardboard to prevent damage and to make it possible to slide them into and out of position. I loaded them up by myself -- I could have had help if I had wanted it, but I wanted to be able to take my time...

I'm pretty good at getting things to fit snugly in my car(s). My entire drum kit fits in the RX-8 in the trunk and back seat, cymbals and hardware included. The front seats can even slide almost all the way back too!

Post by **sharward** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:38 pm

Oh, and I almost forgot...

40,000 VIEWS!

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:35 pm

"Did I mention that they're really sturdy?!" -

And now, if I were you, I'd go back and put braces between each and every one of those, made at LEAST as sturdy as the ones already in place.

Did I mention that concrete is really HEAVY??!?

No, I'm NOT kidding; from the look of your form boards and the spacin' of the bracin', there's a VERY good chance you'll get bulged sides and/or broken braces. For that deep a slab, I tend to use 2x4 bracing spaced no more than 24" apart, with the diagonal braces placed on edge and DOUBLE nailed at the top join between vertical stake and diagonal one. I had one pour bulge out an INCH when using 4' stake spacing, and I'd used 2x12's for forms and steel 3/4" diameter rods for stakes - your form boards look like maybe 1" OSB at most, which has nowhere NEAR the bend strength of a fir 2x lumber.

Consider this; if I'm wrong, you're out a few pieces of wood and a bit more time; if I'm RIGHT, you're SCREWED...

There's a good reason why pro's use 3/4 ply with 2x4 framing BEHIND it every couple feet for forming - the total effective thickness of those forms is over 4", so when properly braced they don't move.

Also, ask your concrete supplier where to get "mold release" - it's a spray can you spray your forms with everywhere the concrete will touch, and you'll be glad you used it. If you can't find that, staple poly sheeting onto the surfaces of the form boards, and depending on the slump pull your forms in about 4-6 hours (top of concrete should NOT be "dentable" by pushing as hard as you can with your thumb)

Or, if you're having the actual pour done by pro's, ASK their advice BEFORE the truck is due.

Break a leg (but not really)

Steve

Post by **sharward** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:40 am

knightfly wrote:And now, if I were you, I'd go back and put braces between each and every one of those, made at LEAST as sturdy as the ones already in place. . . there's a VERY good chance you'll get bulged sides and/or broken braces. For that deep a slab, I tend to use 2x4 bracing spaced no more than 24" apart, with the diagonal braces placed on edge and DOUBLE nailed at the top join between vertical stake and diagonal one. I had one pour bulge out an INCH when using 4' stake spacing, and I'd used 2x12's for forms and steel 3/4" diameter rods for stakes - your form boards look like maybe 1" OSB at most, which has nowhere NEAR the bend strength of a fir 2x lumber.

Thanks for the advice, Steve -- and, yes, I'll be taking it.

Some clarification though on the forms... They're 1 1/4" thick and 12" tall. The stakes are spaced about 3 feet apart right now. I'm also using 2 1/2" course thread screws on everything, though fewer screws than are ideal due to the close quarters (I'm not screwing anywhere on the concrete-facing side of the forms).

Consider this; if I'm wrong, you're out a few pieces of wood and a bit more time; if I'm RIGHT, you're SCREWED...

True enough! Better safe than sorry, that's for sure.

Also, ask your concrete supplier where to get "mold release" - it's a spray can you spray your forms with everywhere the concrete will touch, and you'll be glad you used it. If you can't find that, staple poly sheeting onto the surfaces of the form boards, and depending on the slump pull your forms in about 4-6 hours (top of concrete should NOT be "dentable" by pushing as hard as you can with your thumb)

Or, if you're having the actual pour done by pro's, ASK their advice BEFORE the truck is due.

Excellent.

Actually, I'm planning to line the entire area with plastic, and I wasn't sure whether or not to have the plastic follow the forms. I figured that was a bridge I'd cross later.

And yes, I am planning to have the concrete poured and finished by a pro. The reason I'm doing all the prepwork/gruntwork myself isn't so much to save money (although that's obviously a motivation too), but to have more control over the dimensions, and (this is a biggie) to make the job more attractive to pros, since it's such a small job. I realize that I'm making the job smaller by doing more of the work -- but hopefully having everything prepped and ready for pour, plus the fact that it's all under cover, will make the project desirable, especially if the weather isn't great.

Fortunately, I think I found a licensed concrete contractor who is interested in the job... But I want to keep my options open, just in case that lead doesn't pan out.

Thank you Steve for watching my back!!

--Keith

Post by **sharward** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:55 pm

OK, the concrete form board stake beef-up process is underway.

I went back to the equipment rental place (which has a really nice assortment of concrete equipment, obviously) to buy more stakes. I decided to "bite the bullet" and get 3 foot round steel stakes that are 3/4" in diameter. I bought 30 of them at a cost of $2.80 each.

In retrospect I wish I had purchased these initially, as they drive into the ground much easier and they're much stronger!

So now I have a leapfrog pattern of wood, steel, wood, steel, etc. It looks rather goofy and I'm sure very amateurish...

...Not quite the impression I hoped to make with my first municipal building department inspection!

Anyway, today's pace started rather slowly and it ended early due to a dinner engagement with my wife's family (sister-in-law's belated birthday dinner, postponed due to the Dad Going To Hospital incident a couple of weeks ago).

Back to the stakes... I'm not done securing them, but most of them are driven into the ground where they need to be. I'm really glad I'm doing this (Thanks, Steve!) because it dawned on me while I was working today -- the wooden stakes suck the way that I drove them -- indeed I should have rotated them all 90 degrees so that they were thickest in the direction of the lateral forces!

Now, in my defense, I didn't do that along the edges because it would have cost me another inch or so... But I didn't have that constraint in the L-shaped area towards the center of the garage (where the "kicker" stakes are quite visible) -- and that would have been moot if I had used the steel stakes to begin with!

Oh well... In spite of the long delay before starting this task, I wholly admit to rushing this part -- so much so that I didn't bother reviewing the "How to build a concrete slab" DVD I purchased a few weeks back.

Lesson learned: Don't rush!

Here are some pictures of what has been done with the steel stakes so far. Overall, pretty darned good... Although I can plainly see problems with my block braces along the existing walls and a couple of other trouble spots that became evident today. I can pretty much kiss away any longshot hopes I had of passing my first inspection this week... But at least I'll get my six-month extension.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:35 pm

I'd get some 2x4's or 2x6's and brace to the solidest thing you've got, namely the old slab; I'd do it every corner and every 4 feet IN ADDITION to what you already have. stakes can bend, pull out, tip over, but a short 2x4 like this will support a CAR, even in compression. Trust me, you do NOT want your forms to move when there's wet concrete in them. See your modified pic below... Steve

Post by **sharward** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:37 pm

You're a freakin' genius, Steve!

I actually don't have any spare 2x4s anymore, but I've got some 4x4 laying around, so I think I'll use that instead.

And I'll use some 2 foot wooden stakes to steady the braces so that they don't slip 'n' slide.

Did I mention you're a genius?

WiseMindsRecordingStudios · Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:50 pm

This is probably a REALLY stupid question but with a slab as thick as you are about to pour, is there any chance of air pockets forming in the concrete as it cures?

I have seen vibration equipment used to remove air and settle the concrete for a good dense slab, no problems with cracking later. I am sure you have already looked into this, I was just curious as to if you are concerned with this or not.

Post by **sharward** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:08 pm

Actually, I have not looked into this, but I'll definitely ask my concrete guy and/or look into this myself prior to the pour!

Hey, what the heck are you doing up at this hour? It's 3 AM your time!

Oh yeah, you're a guitarist... Never mind!