Small, poorly shaped room seeks advice....

s3 · Post by s3 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:40 am

Hi all,

I have been reading this board for a few months now in an effort to determine the best course of action for me to take regarding my little ( and I do mean little) room. Any insight that anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. Sorry in advance about the length of this post, I’ve been saving these questions up for a little while now.

Room details:
It will be used primarily for mixing, although I will record vocals from the mix position. This is a one-man band type of situation. I cannot build permanent structures due to a possible move to the garage next summer when I’ll be able to build actual walls and hopefully float a floor (we’ll see). I am planning to use 703 2” and 705 2” that I have access to for treatment. I was hoping to soffit mount my monitors and mount panels of either 703 or 705 to the sidewalls and the doors to absorb reflections from the rear of the proposed mix position. Any advice as to how to treat this room would be greatly appreciated.

Floor is covered in thick Berber carpet with a thick pad underneath (brand new)
Ceiling is that old 70’s style popcorn asbestos (I think) crap.
Ceiling height is aprox 7’ 7”.
Window sill is 14 1/2 “ from ground.
Window is 5’ tall from sill.
There is aprox 11” of wall space above the main door.
There is aprox 13” of wall space above closet doors.
There is a single exposed 4” x 10” ceiling beam about 2’ from the wall with the window (see drawing).
There is an air vent on the ground in front of the window.
Console is drawn to scale.

Questions:

Mix Position:
1 - Of the three pics, which one is theoretically the best position to mix in for my little room, 1, 2, 3 or 4? I can mount 2” 703 or 705 on the closet and main door for absorption to the rear of the proposed mix positions. I have looked at Ethan Winters suggestions and read the suggestions on this site regarding positioning and symmetry, but none of the examples show a window placed as poorly as mine and none address anything similar to my uneven walls where the doors are. If anyone has an idea that I didn't think of, please let me know.

Soffit mounting Speakers:
I would like to soffit mount a pair of the dreaded Mackie 824s. Although I do understand one of the moderators’ explanation why not to do this, Mackie assures me that it is fine to soffit mount them. The only consideration they said to be aware of is that they will need a good channel for cooling their rear mounted power amps.

2 - In reference to the hangers that go below the speakers, what is their spacing distance?

3 - Do they all go one direction like clothes hanging in a closet or should some hang from front to back to mix it up? I thought I saw somewhere in the BB how these are actually mounted but I can’t find it now….?

4 - Also, In Luis’ picture, it looks like the insulation above the soffits and what’s used for the hangers, is high density (703 or 705). Is this correct or should it be regular insulation?

Reference:
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ght=soffit

Wall Panels:

5 - When using unfaced 703 panels for use on the side and rear walls, is it better to attach the 703 onto an 1/8” piece press board (Luan) and cover with fabric and mount an inch or two off the wall or….just cover the 703 in fabric mount off the wall. The luan would be toward the wall. Also, how would you attach the insulation to the pressboard? Just glue and then cover with fabric?

6 - What kind of adhesive is typically used to glue the fabric on the back of the 703 panels?

Corner traps (low frequency absorbers?):

7 – Same as question 4 in regards to panels mounted in the corners to combat low frequencies. Also, is it better to use the more dense 705 for corner traps?

8 – If I just mount the 703 or 705 panels in the corner, without the enclosure as shown in the “Imperial” drawing, can I expect favorable results?

Thanks in advance for any help. I appreciate the time that everyone here puts in educating the masses.

Cheers,
S3

s3 · Post by s3 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:42 am

Mix Position 4

Post by **John Sayers** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:53 pm

The window is the main problem - but hey youy've gotta breath. nBeacuse of the window, and because you say this is temporary, I'd go for either 1 or 3, but mainly 1 because of the window.

Put a free standing bass trap behind the console to start with and then treat all that's behind you, i.e. left wall and top wall (You'll have to lay insulation over the doors)

I would like to soffit mount a pair of the dreaded Mackie 824s

Bryan Giles is very happy with his mackies mounted - check out his room at http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/index.htm Kenzee Ent Group.

2 - In reference to the hangers that go below the speakers, what is their spacing distance?

around 6" - 8" dependent on thickness of hangers.
I should note that hangers are basically a sheet of celotex fiberboard wrapped in insulation - the insulation is not the dense heavy stuff, simple 1" 703 or dacron will work. The amss is in the fibreboard, not the insulation.

Do they all go one direction like clothes hanging in a closet

Yes but if you are doing a ceiling area it is better to alternate the direction in sections.

I answered 4 in 2.

5 - When using unfaced 703 panels for use on the side and rear walls, is it better to attach the 703 onto an 1/8” piece press board (Luan) and cover with fabric and mount an inch or two off the wall or….just cover the 703 in fabric mount off the wall. The luan would be toward the wall. Also, how would you attach the insulation to the pressboard? Just glue and then cover with fabric?

It depends. You can glue the insulation straight to the wall, or you can make a 4" x 1" frame and squeeze the insulation in so it self supports. Here ion aussieland we can also buy plastic supports which are like a circle with a serrated center pin. see attached pic.

6 - contact adheasive - the type that you put on each surface - wait for it to go tackey - then join together. You also get high on the fumes

7 -8 depends on the room layout, size etc as to whether you want a reflective surface or an absorption surface. Slots will concentrate on the low mids - without it is a full band absorber

cheers
JOhn

s3 · Post by s3 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:26 pm

Hi John,

Thanks so much for your input. I am in the middle of rearranging my room right now so I can baseline the frequensy measurements. I know it's probably a little overkill for a temporary thing but I am really curious about all of this. I only have a couple of follow up questions regarding your post.

1 - The free standing bass trap that you suggested to put in front of the console (in the corner where I am facing?)....Is it to be built like the Imperial Corner Absorber on your site? With slots, or should it just be for absorbtion? If this is correct, I didn't realize that those corner absorbers were desined to be free standing. I thought they had to be attached somehow to the wall.

2 - Was I incorrect in my thinking that my room is to small for for slot absorbers?

3 - what is celotex?

4 - In regards to:
"It depends. You can glue the insulation straight to the wall, or you can make a 4" x 1" frame and squeeze the insulation in so it self supports. Here ion aussieland we can also buy plastic supports which are like a circle with a serrated center pin. see attached pic."

If the frame is 1" x 4" do I stack the 2" 703 to equal 4" or place it so there is an air gap between it and the wall inside the frame? Also, I didn't see the pic that you attached...am I missing it somehow?

5 - About the closet....I was thinking to mount a panel absorber on the outside sliding dorr and make a panel that I could just place in front of the other door when I want to mix. Would it be useful to make another free standing corner absorber to be placed in the corner in front of the door? Or is the back of the closet where I really need a corner absorber?

Thanks again for this incredibly informative site.

Cheers,
Scott

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Post by **John Sayers** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:08 am

sorry scott - i forgot to post the pic. here it is.

The corner bass trap can be either a slot or just heavy 703.= behind your console - A slot would be best IMO.

The areas behind you should be dead, whereas the side walls can be reflective (i.e. panel absorber if you like) so I'd make your cupboard and dorr area dead.

cheers
john

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:18 am

To Answer #3 - Celotex is an Insulation Sheathing fibreboard. The Brand/trade name is Celotex.

The Keyword being fibreboard.

Bryan Giles