New space - studio in Athens

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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Some progress on front wall to ceiling horizontal corner trap.
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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Making the Steel frames for the clouds:
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Painted:
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Damping the insides with polyurethane expanding foam:
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Drilled so I can attach the 20mm boards:
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Attaching the boards:
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The three hard backs for the clouds are ready:
Screenshot_20200806-181559_Instagram_resize_21.jpg
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

But before hanging the clouds I needed to make the frames for the wall to ceiling corner traps so that the fabric can "sit" on and take a shape.
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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Hanging the clouds!
On these guys:
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Front cloud, above listening position:
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Middle room section cloud:
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Back of the room cloud:
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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Adding the insulation.

Custom spacers for attaching the insulation's frame:
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Front:
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Middle:
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Front and middle clouds view:
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Back:
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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

And measuring.
41.jpg
Any ideas how to tame this 19Hz axial? :roll:
Paulus87
Senior Member
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:42 am
Location: Wales, UK

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by Paulus87 »

You've been very busy!

It's looking great so far, are you happy with how it's going? The metal work for the clouds is excellent, how do they compare weight wise with timber frames?

Paul
Paul
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Yes, and I am doing this by myself...

Thank you!

I am so and so because I see I have still lot of problems to deal with so..

The weight for the hardback alone is 80Kg. That is for 3 x 1.7 meters cloud made of 1.5 mm thick steel tubes 20mm thick wood and all the bolts and hanging stuff.
Not sure what would be with timber.
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Any ideas how to tame this 1-0-0 axial mode?
I've got close to 1" decay time at 18.2Hz...
Measurements attached
llrr.jpg
It affects the sub low spectrum in a bad way... Sounds like a low passed reverb tail in a cathedral :lol:

I am considering all options like limp mass, diaphragmatic, vpr, slatted helmholtz but I am finally confused which way to go.
The helmholtz probably can't reach down there given my available space. But I am open to possible suggestions!

As you can see, back wall is already treated with the huge hangers, front wall has the two big superchunks and the wall to ceiling trap.

So I got the following space available for front wall treatment:
If I go for porous absorption I got a little more than 3x3 meters and max depth of 48cm.
If I go for tuned traps I got 70x145cm and 145x170 and a max. depth of 24cm. I can also extend the depth for these but I prefer not to if possible.
It's either one or the other
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

So I will finally use Limp Mass Absorbers tuned at 18.25Hz.
Place directly on front wall.
That's the layout. Grey are LMA'S, green are porous absorbers 10cm to 1.4m deep.
LMA metrics.jpg
That's LEFT, RIGHT, L+R (purple), unsmoothed.
1-0-0.jpg
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Should I consider measurements' ringing or the dimensions' modes for building my traps?

According to room's dimensions the lower axial modes are:
1 19.71 Hz D0# 1-0-0 ax
2 38.98 Hz D1# 0-1-0 ax
3 39.43 Hz D1# 2-0-0 ax
4 43.42 Hz F1 0-0-1 ax

I can see on the measurement of untreated room the lower mode at 19.7Hz:
untreated.jpg
But after superchunks, hangers, diffuser and clouds, the low ringing is at 18.2Hz:
treated.jpg
vs.jpg
So I am thinking that makes more sense to treat according to modes and not what I get on latest measurements..
I would appreciate any input on this :D
Paulus87
Senior Member
Posts: 652
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Location: Wales, UK

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by Paulus87 »

almaelectronix wrote:Should I consider measurements' ringing or the dimensions' modes for building my traps?

According to room's dimensions the lower axial modes are:
1 19.71 Hz D0# 1-0-0 ax
2 38.98 Hz D1# 0-1-0 ax
3 39.43 Hz D1# 2-0-0 ax
4 43.42 Hz F1 0-0-1 ax

I can see on the measurement of untreated room the lower mode at 19.7Hz:
untreated.jpg
But after superchunks, hangers, diffuser and clouds, the low ringing is at 18.2Hz:
treated.jpg
vs.jpg
So I am thinking that makes more sense to treat according to modes and not what I get on latest measurements..
I would appreciate any input on this :D
Porous absorbers can have an effect on membranes, so I would treat the ringing according to your measurements rather than your predicted room modes.

I have to say though, I am not optimistic about your proposal of creating lots of small traps and only treating a relatively small area on your front wall...
I know much of your treatment is already in place now and changing anything will change your measurements again, but I think I would build large traps and cover as much area as possible on the rear wall, behind porous treatment if possible.

Paul
Paul
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Hi Paul and thank you for your input , I really appreciate!
Paulus87 wrote:Porous absorbers can have an effect on membranes, so I would treat the ringing according to your measurements rather than your predicted room modes.
I further studied the LMA's and read today what the designer says:
"These traps are intended to tame room modes, so measure your room dimensions and calculate the modes. Measuring with microphones does not necessarily identify problematic modes."
So I think I will go for room's mode.
I have to say though, I am not optimistic about your proposal of creating lots of small traps and only treating a relatively small area on your front wall...
About that he is writing on design notes:
"The box L x W is not critical but should be kept small compared to the wave length of the resonant frequency. The
limp mass bass absorber is not effective beyond 300Hz for this reason. Typical L x W would be 60 x 40 cm for
frequencies below 100Hz, and 40 x 30 cm for frequencies above 100Hz."


I still don't know how many of them will be needed so I will build, measure and keep going according to results.
Mine will be 50x60cm and I 've got space for 12 boxes on front wall.

There is this guy who made just two boxes of 40x60cm, placed on front wall, to tame his first axial mode on 61Hz and had great results regarding decay and frequency.
Check his graphs:
Screen Shot 2014-07-09 at 20.47.06.jpg
t30_empty_room.jpg
t30_tlma_18cm.jpg
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spectrogram_tlma_165mm.jpg
I know much of your treatment is already in place now and changing anything will change your measurements again, but I think I would build large traps and cover as much area as possible on the rear wall, behind porous treatment if possible.
Yes the pressure zones for this mode is the front and back wall so both of them will give the best results.
The whole back wall is full of hangers 80-100cm deep already so it already contributes on taming this mode. It was challenging to complete this back wall project so I prefer not to mess with it for now. I will just start with the front which is untreated and see how it goes..
almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

Hi all! Merry Christmas and Happy new Year! My best wishes for all people!

Some progress from my room.
Finished the front wall LMA's and insulation.
Here are the pics and measurements.
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almaelectronix
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: New space - studio in Athens

Post by almaelectronix »

I had to make better use of the only space available on the back wall in order to tame the low axial room mode.
So I said goodbye to my hard built diffuser and 2 LMA's took it's place. No filling this time for higher Q.
Photos of the progress:
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There was a major improvement on 19Hz ringing. Check the spectrogram. Also attaching the mdat
NO lma RIGHT.jpg
LMAs right.jpg
NO lma LEFT.jpg
LMAs left.jpg
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