Hello to all of you!
I would really appreciate Your assistance , i want to build a square shaped brick -concrete studio of 50 m2 (538 sq feet) ,this is the maximum space which i can get due to the area limits.I am a guitar player and i would like to create a place for band recording and rehearsal (drums, bass ,guitars and vocal) .This studio is intended to be used for private purposes but if it is possible also for occasional commercial purposes ,so i would like to do it right from the beginning ,if that is possible regarding space limitation.Can You please give me advice regarding inside arrangement (space is 7.2 x7.2 meters ,23.5x23.5 feet) , space height (is 3 m enough ?,i do not think i can go higher due to area restrictions) , sound isolation and estimated budget for equipment so that can be used in commercial purposes.
Thank You very much in advance !
Ante ,Croatia
50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
Moderators: Aaronw, kendale, John Sayers
-
Ante38
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:42 pm
- Location: Croatia
-
Gregwor
- Moderator
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 pm
- Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
A few things here to consider:
-Figuring out your design will be somewhat of a teeter totter as you will figure out the room sizes you want, then you'll have to shrink all of that to find room for sound proofing/acoustic treatment. Then you'll have to shrink that as you find space for your HVAC, utilities.
-The first thing you can do is go to https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc and type in your room dimensions to visually see what room ratios will provide you with the most ideal results.
-Learn how to use SketchUp. It's really easy after you watch some youtube tutorials. Go download the older/free SketchUp Make version for your computer. When using the software, know that there is probably an easier way to do what you are trying to achieve, so take 15 minutes and find a tutorial video on every procedure and before you know it, you'll be making progress fast.
-Read Johns manual: http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/index.htm
-Here is even more info to help you along the way: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2125
-Commercial use or not, it's very important to build things to code with permits. Read this http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4442
Again, you'll bounce back and forth in your design as you realize you missed something important each step of the way. This will take countless hours. Research as much as you can and ask questions when you can't find answers.
It's important that YOU learn about all of this. SketchUp is the only way you're going to see where you forgot something or didn't understand something well enough. Once it's all working perfectly in SketchUp, then you can apply for permits and start building. Luckily, during your design process, you can save every penny you make because chances are, you'll need all of them plus a bunch more haha
I look forward to seeing your progress. Start reading and SketchingUp!!!!
Greg
-Figuring out your design will be somewhat of a teeter totter as you will figure out the room sizes you want, then you'll have to shrink all of that to find room for sound proofing/acoustic treatment. Then you'll have to shrink that as you find space for your HVAC, utilities.
-The first thing you can do is go to https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc and type in your room dimensions to visually see what room ratios will provide you with the most ideal results.
-Learn how to use SketchUp. It's really easy after you watch some youtube tutorials. Go download the older/free SketchUp Make version for your computer. When using the software, know that there is probably an easier way to do what you are trying to achieve, so take 15 minutes and find a tutorial video on every procedure and before you know it, you'll be making progress fast.
-Read Johns manual: http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/index.htm
-Here is even more info to help you along the way: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2125
-Commercial use or not, it's very important to build things to code with permits. Read this http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4442
Again, you'll bounce back and forth in your design as you realize you missed something important each step of the way. This will take countless hours. Research as much as you can and ask questions when you can't find answers.
It's important that YOU learn about all of this. SketchUp is the only way you're going to see where you forgot something or didn't understand something well enough. Once it's all working perfectly in SketchUp, then you can apply for permits and start building. Luckily, during your design process, you can save every penny you make because chances are, you'll need all of them plus a bunch more haha
I look forward to seeing your progress. Start reading and SketchingUp!!!!
Greg
-
Ante38
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:42 pm
- Location: Croatia
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
Thank You very much for the quick answer ,i will start to dig immediately 
Ante
Ante
-
Ante38
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:42 pm
- Location: Croatia
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
Change of plan ,one short question if You find the time to answer.
I have to build the house soon ,i did not have the intention to build the basement ,but i changed my mind.
I will build 12 m x 7m (it is maximum width) ,so only one question related to it before i start to study the studio details and interior arrangement :what should be the reasonable height so that i can later play with arrangement without to much height limits,please give me some estimated range so that i know how deep to dig before is too late.....
Thank You in advance !
Ante
I have to build the house soon ,i did not have the intention to build the basement ,but i changed my mind.
I will build 12 m x 7m (it is maximum width) ,so only one question related to it before i start to study the studio details and interior arrangement :what should be the reasonable height so that i can later play with arrangement without to much height limits,please give me some estimated range so that i know how deep to dig before is too late.....
Thank You in advance !
Ante
-
Gregwor
- Moderator
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 pm
- Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
That one is easy to answer. Get your basement as high as possible. I know with my house (that is being started in a few days!!!), I tried to get 11' basement ceilings and the sewer invert in the area wasn't deep enough. My builder tried to raise the house to compensate and due to architectural requirements, was only able to give me a measly 10' to the bottom of the slab. So it's looking like I'm only having 9' 8" from the top of the concrete to the bottom of the floor joists. My garage height was compromised as well due to the architectural requirements. I was going to raise portions of the interior of my house to try and raise the majority of the basement and ultimately the windows on the second floor which would give me more garage vaulted ceiling height as well, but it would have cost too much. 9' 8" basement is still going to be awesome.
The extra height will cost you, but will be worth every penny once you start sound proofing and acoustically treating!
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you should drop everything and start designing as fast as you can. I'll help you with any knowledge I've acquired thus far. I had like 2-3 weeks to get my ducks in a row before I had to sign off on my house build. In doing so, I found a bunch of issues with the house design that I was able to address before the foundation dig.
Some things I addressed that may apply to your situation:
- I'm getting in floor heating, so instead of gluing the sole plates of the wood walls to the concrete, where my door jambs are, I'm getting the builder to put extra footing pads so that my 300 pound doors will be good and solid. They're also getting me in contact with the framing inspector for the small city so that I can confirm that gluing the rest of the sole plates will be okay, even though they're load bearing.
- House HVAC duct locations. Make sure that the HVAC done by the builder isn't going to drop in the areas where your studio room(s) will be. If they do, this will cause a headache with trying to sound proof those rooms AND will drastically cut into your critical ceiling height. Basically, get them to run it down a hallway or something. Lastly, figuring out where your HVAC silencer boxes are going to go will be important because you can then ask the builder to leave spots that you can tap into your main supply and returns with your silencers!
- Make sure there is room in your utility room to add a sub panel (can be cheap and small) to run the electrical for your room(s). One leg of the panel can be used for lights, and the other for your outlets. The house HVAC has be be run from the main house panel, NOT your sub panel. Where applicable and affordable of course, try to use the "star grounding" system for your critical music gear outlets.
-Electrical panel location. In my old house, the panel wasn't in the utility room. Make sure the panel isn't inside one of your rooms simply because it will make your build even harder.... trying to make a door in your acoustic treatment and trying to seal it off to make it sound proof.
- In my garage, where my drum room will be, I got permission to go in after the electrical inspection, and before the drywalling, to add thick heavy boxes around the back sides of any electrical boxes to seal them off.
- It's important to stress the importance of having your basement floor as level as possible for having your flooring go down well. Remember, NO carpet allowed! Having said that, make sure your floor drain isn't in your studio room(s). I decided with my radiant in floor heating to just use 100% epoxy on the floor since concrete is pretty much the best floor you can have. That allowed me to save some money and future hassle by asking the builder to not put any paint on the floor (I'd just have to fight removing it in the future anyway).
- Conduit runs in the basement floor. I don't want any cables run across my floors and if possible, I don't want to compromise cutting big holes into the walls that I just spent so much time and money making "sound proof". Finding a layout that will work should get you in the ballpark to make an informed decision on where to run conduit. Remember, try to have any high voltage power lines pass your audio lines at 90 degrees. To put the importance of conduit into perspective, imagine you ran an XLR cable through your walls up to your soffit mounted speaker. For some reason that XLR cable got crackly or died and it needs to be replaced. How do you fix it without tearing your walls apart? Having said that, figure out all of the lines that you're worried about (maybe all of them?) and run conduit for those.
At LEAST run conduit to:
-any desks or gear racks that are in the middle of your room.
-speaker soffits
-between control room and any tracking rooms either big enough to have an audio snake and cat6 cable, or one conduit for each.
-while you're at it, running that non-parallel main power run to your recording desk will be awesome.
-any other specific type stuff like alarms, phone, internet cable, CCTV, door bell, etc
- I got the windows in my basement removed which is one less headache trying to acoustically seal them off. I called the city about my business licence and permitting and they confirmed that I do not need windows unless the rooms are being used for bedrooms. So hooray!
- To make the room I needed for my rooms in the basement, I had the builder put my furnace under the stairs. If it's not too late to rearrange that stuff (it isn't too late!), a simple move like that can open up way more room for your studio! Again, ANY preparing you can do right now will potentially help you out down the road.
How long until they start to build your house?
The extra height will cost you, but will be worth every penny once you start sound proofing and acoustically treating!
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you should drop everything and start designing as fast as you can. I'll help you with any knowledge I've acquired thus far. I had like 2-3 weeks to get my ducks in a row before I had to sign off on my house build. In doing so, I found a bunch of issues with the house design that I was able to address before the foundation dig.
Some things I addressed that may apply to your situation:
- I'm getting in floor heating, so instead of gluing the sole plates of the wood walls to the concrete, where my door jambs are, I'm getting the builder to put extra footing pads so that my 300 pound doors will be good and solid. They're also getting me in contact with the framing inspector for the small city so that I can confirm that gluing the rest of the sole plates will be okay, even though they're load bearing.
- House HVAC duct locations. Make sure that the HVAC done by the builder isn't going to drop in the areas where your studio room(s) will be. If they do, this will cause a headache with trying to sound proof those rooms AND will drastically cut into your critical ceiling height. Basically, get them to run it down a hallway or something. Lastly, figuring out where your HVAC silencer boxes are going to go will be important because you can then ask the builder to leave spots that you can tap into your main supply and returns with your silencers!
- Make sure there is room in your utility room to add a sub panel (can be cheap and small) to run the electrical for your room(s). One leg of the panel can be used for lights, and the other for your outlets. The house HVAC has be be run from the main house panel, NOT your sub panel. Where applicable and affordable of course, try to use the "star grounding" system for your critical music gear outlets.
-Electrical panel location. In my old house, the panel wasn't in the utility room. Make sure the panel isn't inside one of your rooms simply because it will make your build even harder.... trying to make a door in your acoustic treatment and trying to seal it off to make it sound proof.
- In my garage, where my drum room will be, I got permission to go in after the electrical inspection, and before the drywalling, to add thick heavy boxes around the back sides of any electrical boxes to seal them off.
- It's important to stress the importance of having your basement floor as level as possible for having your flooring go down well. Remember, NO carpet allowed! Having said that, make sure your floor drain isn't in your studio room(s). I decided with my radiant in floor heating to just use 100% epoxy on the floor since concrete is pretty much the best floor you can have. That allowed me to save some money and future hassle by asking the builder to not put any paint on the floor (I'd just have to fight removing it in the future anyway).
- Conduit runs in the basement floor. I don't want any cables run across my floors and if possible, I don't want to compromise cutting big holes into the walls that I just spent so much time and money making "sound proof". Finding a layout that will work should get you in the ballpark to make an informed decision on where to run conduit. Remember, try to have any high voltage power lines pass your audio lines at 90 degrees. To put the importance of conduit into perspective, imagine you ran an XLR cable through your walls up to your soffit mounted speaker. For some reason that XLR cable got crackly or died and it needs to be replaced. How do you fix it without tearing your walls apart? Having said that, figure out all of the lines that you're worried about (maybe all of them?) and run conduit for those.
At LEAST run conduit to:
-any desks or gear racks that are in the middle of your room.
-speaker soffits
-between control room and any tracking rooms either big enough to have an audio snake and cat6 cable, or one conduit for each.
-while you're at it, running that non-parallel main power run to your recording desk will be awesome.
-any other specific type stuff like alarms, phone, internet cable, CCTV, door bell, etc
- I got the windows in my basement removed which is one less headache trying to acoustically seal them off. I called the city about my business licence and permitting and they confirmed that I do not need windows unless the rooms are being used for bedrooms. So hooray!
- To make the room I needed for my rooms in the basement, I had the builder put my furnace under the stairs. If it's not too late to rearrange that stuff (it isn't too late!), a simple move like that can open up way more room for your studio! Again, ANY preparing you can do right now will potentially help you out down the road.
How long until they start to build your house?
-
Ante38
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:42 pm
- Location: Croatia
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
Hello Gregwor ,thanks for the help.
I am not in a hurry (soon is through next few 1-2 years ,so i have the time to sort the things out).
The house is still on the paper ,i have to check with the architect to find best possible solution.
If i go 10 feet deep and leave 2 feet above the ground how is the effect on sound isolation requirements.The house is not in crowded area, neighbors are >100 ft away .So inside space is going to be 40 ft long , 21 ft wide ,and 12 ft high ,and i have to make detailed plan for the interior .It is going to take time ,but as i said i am not in a hurry.
I am not in a hurry (soon is through next few 1-2 years ,so i have the time to sort the things out).
The house is still on the paper ,i have to check with the architect to find best possible solution.
If i go 10 feet deep and leave 2 feet above the ground how is the effect on sound isolation requirements.The house is not in crowded area, neighbors are >100 ft away .So inside space is going to be 40 ft long , 21 ft wide ,and 12 ft high ,and i have to make detailed plan for the interior .It is going to take time ,but as i said i am not in a hurry.
-
Gregwor
- Moderator
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 pm
- Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
You're in great shape then!!
No matter what, you'll want to make the room(s) sound proof to keep sound from both going out of your rooms AND from coming in.
Can you share the basement layout as it is now? Are you wanting a control room and jam/recording space? One big room? To get great sounds for drums, the bigger the room the better really. That's why I'm using my garage with a vaulted ceiling for my live room and the basement for a larger "isolation room" for vocals and guitar amps as well as a designated RFZ control room.
Please let us know... curiosity is killing me
Greg
No matter what, you'll want to make the room(s) sound proof to keep sound from both going out of your rooms AND from coming in.
Can you share the basement layout as it is now? Are you wanting a control room and jam/recording space? One big room? To get great sounds for drums, the bigger the room the better really. That's why I'm using my garage with a vaulted ceiling for my live room and the basement for a larger "isolation room" for vocals and guitar amps as well as a designated RFZ control room.
Please let us know... curiosity is killing me
Greg
It appears that you've made the mistake most people do. You started building without consulting this forum.
-
Ante38
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:42 pm
- Location: Croatia
Re: 50 m2(538 square feet) band studio design advice please
The studio is in my head ,but to realization it is going to take some time , i am in first phase of building ,which is clearing the pine forest on my piece of land ,get the authorization for building after the architect finalizes the papers so from this moment
to real pictures of basement it will take 1.5 years in my optimistic estimation,just enough time to educate myself.
Until then ....
to real pictures of basement it will take 1.5 years in my optimistic estimation,just enough time to educate myself.
Until then ....