Hello!
Have been working some during the last weeks.
Casaestudio Project
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casaestudio
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Re: Casaestudio Project
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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casaestudio
- Posts: 74
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Re: Casaestudio Project
We'll be drywalling tomorrow and I'll try to make more pics.
Tested the extractor and it's quite silent.
Cheers
Tested the extractor and it's quite silent.
Cheers
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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casaestudio
- Posts: 74
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Hello! Some more updates.
I've been drywalling some and now there's little more to be done in that sense. We also installed the inner acoustic doors. I have to say they ARE something heavy. We estimated they weighted around 200Kg each and I was not feeling confident at installing them directly on the steel frame... so I made my decision even though it would "compromise" the isolation and reduce it: We fixed them to the outer walls using thick steel plates. We used decoupling materials, though to minimize structural noise.
I thought this way of installing the doors would be "less bad" than having one falling over a musician eventually. We'll see when tests come.
The doors themselfs are in very good condition with only a few neoprene stripes having to be replaced.
So I have two pairs of doors; one 52db door with a window in the inner wall and one 42db in the outer wall leading to a little tools room. That "tools room" has another door that leads to the outside and this will be the entrance when the Live room is rented for rehearsal only. Then, to the control room I have one 54db door in the inner wall and one 42db in the outer wall leading to the CR. Hopefully It will take me 2 more days to finish the drywall and one more to plaster and set everything ready for painting.
Cheers.
I've been drywalling some and now there's little more to be done in that sense. We also installed the inner acoustic doors. I have to say they ARE something heavy. We estimated they weighted around 200Kg each and I was not feeling confident at installing them directly on the steel frame... so I made my decision even though it would "compromise" the isolation and reduce it: We fixed them to the outer walls using thick steel plates. We used decoupling materials, though to minimize structural noise.
I thought this way of installing the doors would be "less bad" than having one falling over a musician eventually. We'll see when tests come.
The doors themselfs are in very good condition with only a few neoprene stripes having to be replaced.
So I have two pairs of doors; one 52db door with a window in the inner wall and one 42db in the outer wall leading to a little tools room. That "tools room" has another door that leads to the outside and this will be the entrance when the Live room is rented for rehearsal only. Then, to the control room I have one 54db door in the inner wall and one 42db in the outer wall leading to the CR. Hopefully It will take me 2 more days to finish the drywall and one more to plaster and set everything ready for painting.
Cheers.
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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casaestudio
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:21 am
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Sooooo
And, ale-hop! Finished drywalling in the Live Room finally. I have to say that until now it has been a binge of work, but it is a joy to see how the project takes shape. Ole and ole to Marcio, Silvestre, Santi, Raul and Carlos who are giving me a priceless hand when they can. Thanks thanks!
Next, the window between Control Room and Live Room.
My apologies for the photos of the cell phone (I could not manage a better camera)
Hugs!
And, ale-hop! Finished drywalling in the Live Room finally. I have to say that until now it has been a binge of work, but it is a joy to see how the project takes shape. Ole and ole to Marcio, Silvestre, Santi, Raul and Carlos who are giving me a priceless hand when they can. Thanks thanks!
Next, the window between Control Room and Live Room.
My apologies for the photos of the cell phone (I could not manage a better camera)
Hugs!
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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Soundman2020
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Progress! I love watching studio construction progress.... 
- Stuart -
- Stuart -
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casaestudio
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Hello, friends!
Thanks, Stuart, I love to see that you keep an eye on us...
Sooooo, work keeps going on. Lucky me that I enjoy it because this is all A LOT of work.
Room is painted now, and the studio window between the CR and LR is also about to be finished. Glass is ordered and will be coming this week. Great! 10+10mm acoustic laminated glass for the CR wall (brickwall) and 8+8mm acoustic laminated for the LR wall (drywall sandwich). The glass on the CR side will be angled at 5º and the glass on the LR wall will be straight. I made the frame using wood from fir tree.
How have I done them?
In the LR side I have used Danosa Fonodan 50 acoustic band on the steel frame and on the drywall sandwich (facing the wood frame) so I could then slip the frame tightly in the gap for it. That has worked very well and the window frame seems to sit very tight in that gap. Then I screwed the window frame into the steel channel that I used to frame the drywall. After the wooden window frame was in place, I used Fonodan 50 again on the inner side of the frame, just where the glass will be, as a bedding to it and to the pieces of wood that will keep it in place.
In the CR side I prepared a bigger hole on the wall so I can finish it tomorrow. I Bolted the frame to the wall using 8cm bolts and tomorrow I'll finish and seal the gaps in between wood frame and brickwall with a mix of mortar and mineral wool (in very little pieces). After that is done I will use some rigid fiberboard pannels on the perimeter of the gap between both frames and then glue some acoustic foam to it. Because the fiberglass pannel is so thin (like 5mm), I'll try to place some silica gel bags in the acoustic foam.
Both frames will end up very well caulked on all the edges.
The laminated floor is also on it's way so I hope it arrives tomorrow and it can rest 48hours in the room before we install it on friday or monday.
Stuart, you told me a few months ago that this was starting to look a bit like a studio (when I installed my first door if I remember well); well, right know I have to say I feel I'm getting closer to the part when it all will blup-blup, and chip-chip, and bubble up: The acoustic treatment. I'm really looking fordward to have my windows windowed so I can do the first meassurements, not only to test the isolation, but to design the treatment.
Hopefully I'll have some isolation meassurements by next week. Until then, BIG HUG!
Thanks, Stuart, I love to see that you keep an eye on us...
Sooooo, work keeps going on. Lucky me that I enjoy it because this is all A LOT of work.
Room is painted now, and the studio window between the CR and LR is also about to be finished. Glass is ordered and will be coming this week. Great! 10+10mm acoustic laminated glass for the CR wall (brickwall) and 8+8mm acoustic laminated for the LR wall (drywall sandwich). The glass on the CR side will be angled at 5º and the glass on the LR wall will be straight. I made the frame using wood from fir tree.
How have I done them?
In the LR side I have used Danosa Fonodan 50 acoustic band on the steel frame and on the drywall sandwich (facing the wood frame) so I could then slip the frame tightly in the gap for it. That has worked very well and the window frame seems to sit very tight in that gap. Then I screwed the window frame into the steel channel that I used to frame the drywall. After the wooden window frame was in place, I used Fonodan 50 again on the inner side of the frame, just where the glass will be, as a bedding to it and to the pieces of wood that will keep it in place.
In the CR side I prepared a bigger hole on the wall so I can finish it tomorrow. I Bolted the frame to the wall using 8cm bolts and tomorrow I'll finish and seal the gaps in between wood frame and brickwall with a mix of mortar and mineral wool (in very little pieces). After that is done I will use some rigid fiberboard pannels on the perimeter of the gap between both frames and then glue some acoustic foam to it. Because the fiberglass pannel is so thin (like 5mm), I'll try to place some silica gel bags in the acoustic foam.
Both frames will end up very well caulked on all the edges.
The laminated floor is also on it's way so I hope it arrives tomorrow and it can rest 48hours in the room before we install it on friday or monday.
Stuart, you told me a few months ago that this was starting to look a bit like a studio (when I installed my first door if I remember well); well, right know I have to say I feel I'm getting closer to the part when it all will blup-blup, and chip-chip, and bubble up: The acoustic treatment. I'm really looking fordward to have my windows windowed so I can do the first meassurements, not only to test the isolation, but to design the treatment.
Hopefully I'll have some isolation meassurements by next week. Until then, BIG HUG!
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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casaestudio
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:21 am
- Location: Galapagar, Madrid. Spain
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Happy Sunday!
Window finished, laminate floor of the room installed.
Outside the house, 45db attenuation with drums inside playing at 110db. Reading of 65db at 1m from the studio wall of the life room.
In the control room, same approximate values. So happy with the result that fulfills my need to stop disturbing the neighbors. Anyways I have to still give finishing touches to doors and few walls that might increase the isolation.
For the window construction I cut pieces of fiberglass rigid conduit for air conditioning and placed them with glue and sikaflex around the entire inner perimeter of each viewer (covering the internal air chamber of the window... once placed, I outlined and cut some compartments in the fiberglass where I placed desiccant bags to prevent the window from fogging.
The next step was to line that fiberglass paneling with absorbent foam (waves, from Chova) and prepare the jigs for installation.
The two laminated panes arrived, were installed and the result is formidable. I think it's one of the best soundproof elements in the control room.
That same day I took out an old sound card, calibrated REW and made a measurement in the empty room
At the same time we have continued with the plasterboard of the control room and the vocal booth/storage, I think we will finish this week. The truth is that we have to fix many imperfections and cover a few cracks on the walls.
We will reinforce the actual walls of the CR with MAD2 stuck in PYL of 13 and PYL of 15 to finish. Both walls and ceiling. The goal is to add some db more of attenuation to the rest of the house. I'd rather try it out before doing a box in box because I think it will bring what I need and I'll run out of budget. We'll see how it works but I'm confident. If that doesn't work for me I'll plan the isolation to do it in two years.
As soon the CR drywall is finished I'll bring the bundles and attack the acoustic conditioning of the LR. At the same time I'll finish the design of the CR and treat it after de LR.
Cheers
Window finished, laminate floor of the room installed.
Outside the house, 45db attenuation with drums inside playing at 110db. Reading of 65db at 1m from the studio wall of the life room.
In the control room, same approximate values. So happy with the result that fulfills my need to stop disturbing the neighbors. Anyways I have to still give finishing touches to doors and few walls that might increase the isolation.
For the window construction I cut pieces of fiberglass rigid conduit for air conditioning and placed them with glue and sikaflex around the entire inner perimeter of each viewer (covering the internal air chamber of the window... once placed, I outlined and cut some compartments in the fiberglass where I placed desiccant bags to prevent the window from fogging.
The next step was to line that fiberglass paneling with absorbent foam (waves, from Chova) and prepare the jigs for installation.
The two laminated panes arrived, were installed and the result is formidable. I think it's one of the best soundproof elements in the control room.
That same day I took out an old sound card, calibrated REW and made a measurement in the empty room
At the same time we have continued with the plasterboard of the control room and the vocal booth/storage, I think we will finish this week. The truth is that we have to fix many imperfections and cover a few cracks on the walls.
We will reinforce the actual walls of the CR with MAD2 stuck in PYL of 13 and PYL of 15 to finish. Both walls and ceiling. The goal is to add some db more of attenuation to the rest of the house. I'd rather try it out before doing a box in box because I think it will bring what I need and I'll run out of budget. We'll see how it works but I'm confident. If that doesn't work for me I'll plan the isolation to do it in two years.
As soon the CR drywall is finished I'll bring the bundles and attack the acoustic conditioning of the LR. At the same time I'll finish the design of the CR and treat it after de LR.
Cheers
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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casaestudio
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:21 am
- Location: Galapagar, Madrid. Spain
- Contact:
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Soundman2020
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Re: Casaestudio Project
And the desiccant? I do see some bags of what looks like it might be desiccant, but you didn't mention any details about it in the text (type, amount, preparation, etc.). Did you calculate the amount correctly? Did you activate it correctly before installing it?The next step was to line that fiberglass paneling with absorbent foam (waves, from Chova) and prepare the jigs for installation.
You posted photos of some graphs, which look rather strange, but the resolution is way too low to see anything. You didn't post the actual MDAT file, so it's impossible to say what is going on there.That same day I took out an old sound card, calibrated REW and made a measurement in the empty room
Also, I see a photo of what seems to be a single speaker on a stand in the middle of the room: Is that the control room? If so, then that's no use. The speakers (both of them) need to be placed at the exact locations where they will be when the room is finished, which clearly cannot be the where the speaker in the photo is positioned! So the REW data you have is really no use. Please set up your speakers and mic correctly, re-calibrate REW, run the full set of three tests (L, R, and LR), and post the MDAT file some place where we can download it.
- Stuart -
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casaestudio
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Hi Stuart and all!! Thanks for the answer.
Amount: Aproximately a handful of dessicant (I've got big hands, I'm 2 meters tall)
Preparation: The dessicant was ready to go, already blue. I didn't need to oven it.
Anyways, I took my chance here because I have easy access to the side of the window (it's by a double door) and I could introduce more dessicant if needed.
Attached file dat of REW and some capture. Edit, cannot attach the dat file. How can I attach it?
Measurements taken in the empty room. 14 measurements in total. Omni microphone that came with an ARC system. Height of the mic about 160 cm. Only one speaker.
The room measures 5m x 3.4m x 2.36m
The goal will be to lower the reberveration time to 200ms - 400ms and fix the most pronounced problems. I'm looking for help locating those problems.
I'll investigate about it but I have to focus on the steeper peaks and valleys, right?
Thank you, let's see if I can do some studio shot!
Type: Dessicant used for shoes and electronics. Don't know the exact type but they are two kinds, one is in form of blue "pearls" and the other is like a gel.And the desiccant? I do see some bags of what looks like it might be desiccant, but you didn't mention any details about it in the text (type, amount, preparation, etc.). Did you calculate the amount correctly? Did you activate it correctly before installing it?
Amount: Aproximately a handful of dessicant (I've got big hands, I'm 2 meters tall)
Preparation: The dessicant was ready to go, already blue. I didn't need to oven it.
Anyways, I took my chance here because I have easy access to the side of the window (it's by a double door) and I could introduce more dessicant if needed.
It's NOT the control room, that's the live room. Anyways, that pic was coming more from my excitement and was not meant to mean anything. Sorry.Also, I see a photo of what seems to be a single speaker on a stand in the middle of the room: Is that the control room?
Attached file dat of REW and some capture. Edit, cannot attach the dat file. How can I attach it?
Measurements taken in the empty room. 14 measurements in total. Omni microphone that came with an ARC system. Height of the mic about 160 cm. Only one speaker.
The room measures 5m x 3.4m x 2.36m
The goal will be to lower the reberveration time to 200ms - 400ms and fix the most pronounced problems. I'm looking for help locating those problems.
I'll investigate about it but I have to focus on the steeper peaks and valleys, right?
Thank you, let's see if I can do some studio shot!
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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Soundman2020
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Upload it to a file-sharing service, such as Dropbox, and post the link here.Attached file dat of REW and some capture. Edit, cannot attach the dat file. How can I attach it?
It's NOT the control room, that's the live room.
Live room? We are still in the live room, correct?Measurements taken in the empty room.
So you are measuring at standing ear height?Height of the mic about 160 cm. Only one speaker.
That's too short for a live room. I would aim for something rather higher than that.The goal will be to lower the reberveration time to 200ms - 400ms
Wellll..... that's part of it, yes, but not really....I'll investigate about it but I have to focus on the steeper peaks and valleys, right?
It's more complicated than that... - Stuart -
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casaestudio
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Re: Casaestudio Project
https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Public/ ... rsosxayj-QUpload it to a file-sharing service, such as Dropbox, and post the link here.
Thanks
Yep, we are still in the LR. I won´t do the control room until the LR is up and running.Live room? We are still in the live room, correct?
More or less. I was hoping these meassurements would reveal any big problems if I had any.So you are measuring at standing ear height?
You are right. My ears ask for a longer reverb too. What is the longest reverb you think is nice for an all-purpouse music recording live room? don't forget we are talking about a 16m2 room with ceiling at 2,36 meters.That's too short for a live room. I would aim for something rather higher than that.
Well, I know this is not a mixing room. It's a recording room and eventually I will be throwing mics in different spots to capture different sources... so I'm not looking to plan and build the acoustic treatment ONLY based on these meassurements. I just want to be able to identify the big problems I might be facing.Wellll..... that's part of it, yes, but not really....
I have started building corner slot-slat traps already, and I'm "tuning" the slats and slots to four different frequencies. My idea is to treat the room so one half of it is a bit live and the other half is more tight and dry.
Thanks for reading
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
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Soundman2020
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Nope. It doesn't want me! This is what I get when I click your link:
You probably made it private, not public.
- Stuart -
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casaestudio
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Re: Casaestudio Project
All in all is all we all are. (All apologies, Nirvana)
-
Soundman2020
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Re: Casaestudio Project
Theoretically, you could probably get it up to about 1700 ms, but realistically I think I'd be looking for something more like 700 to 1100 if that were my room.You are right. My ears ask for a longer reverb too. What is the longest reverb you think is nice for an all-purpouse music recording live room? don't forget we are talking about a 16m2 room with ceiling at 2,36 meters.
I doubt you'll be able to achieve that in such a small room. That would be fine for a bigger room, but for a small room I think it would be better to have variable acoustic treatment at several key points that an be "adjusted" in some manner, to change the acoustic response in that area, and for the room as a whole.I have started building corner slot-slat traps already, and I'm "tuning" the slats and slots to four different frequencies. My idea is to treat the room so one half of it is a bit live and the other half is more tight and dry.
Variable acoustic design is a bit more complicated, though. But it can be very effective for small rooms.
Sorry, this should be fine.
Downloading now....- Stuart -