Small combined studio/control room design

Plans and things, layout, style, where do I put my near-fields etc.

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Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

I'm not sure which gaps you are referring to. You mean the ones between the floorboards above? You could seal all of those individually with acoustic caulk, yes, but the amount of work and cost of sealant would be pretty high. Unless you need very high levels of isolation, it would probably be far easier to just use the normal "beef up between the joists" method, using a couple of layers of drywall, cleats, and caulk around the edges.
No, i mean the gap between the 2 2x4 and the wall, as showed in the picture called stud detail 1.
From what I can see in the photos, you only have the outer leaf in place at the moment, so any connections between different parts of that are fine. You have not yet built any of your inner-leaf, so there isn't any flanking. Of course, when you DO build the inner-leaf, that's when you need to take great care to ensure that no part of the inner leaf touches the outer leaf: they must remain absolutely separate. The important thing is to make sure that your outer-leaf is a complete "envelope", that fully surrounds the future inner-leaf. To do that, you will very likely need to complete the missing parts, and seal them well.
Maybe i haven't nailed the terminology yet, sorry for that. What i am trying to ask is: Is it a problem that the beam and its supporting studs are touching the outer leaf..?
Why do you need to do that? Is there something wrong with the door frame that is already there? If so, then yes, it would be better to remove it and put in a good one.
If you look at the sketch up file, you can clearly see that the stud supporting the beam, is nailed to the the existing door frame. So, to eventually remove it, i need to fasten the support beams in some other manner. The way i see it, it is to the wall or to the floor, maybe both. Then, i need to understand if the door frame needs to be as thick as the outer and inner leaf combined. Or if i can just have it as thick as the inner leaf. Eventually, if i can have a superdoor attached onto the inner leaf opening inwards, towards the room. This would help me a great deal, because out in the basement hallway, the stairway is directly outside the door. Which means that, a door opening outwards, just would'nt fit.
It's not that it "could represent" a leaf: rather, it undoubtedly IS a leaf! It is your outer leaf, regardless of whether or not it is in tact. If it is cracked, broken, or has holes through it, that does not change the fact that it is a leaf. If the holes are very large then it might not be 100% effective as a leaf, but it is still a leaf: it is the massive, rigid, solid, hard envelope that encloses your studio, so it is the outer-leaf. The holes, gaps and cracks will need to be filled and sealed to make it highly effective.
Yes, i understand this now. :)
Maybe he doesn't understand the huge amount of mass that you will be adding to the structure.... Are you sure you explained that to him clearly?
Well, i explained to him, that there will be a total of 4 layers of drywall, insulation, Norwegian version of resilient channels, studs, and the soffit box around the beam... plus additional celling treatment. Have i missed something crucial?
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

Hey guys!

A small update on the situation:
My structural engineer told i need to reinforce my celling joist with 1 additional 2x8 per the existing ones.
So i guess i'll be busy working on this for awhile. Also, i'll be repairing/reinforcing the outer-leaf with foam.

I'll post some pictures when i'm done :)
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

Well, i am back!

Sure has been a while, but i have successfully reinforced the beams in the celling! (Floor joists.jpg)

I started school (Music Production) in the middle of August so things are moving more slowly.
Anyways, autumn vacation is coming up next week, so now for some work :)

I am going to be beefing up the celling with two layers of gypsum, supported by cleats (if i can find them here in Norway, if not then some simple ledger boards) and caulk.

I spoke with my guy down at the lumber yard today, and he laughed at me ordering acoustic caulk. Apparently i am his first costumer to order this :)

Also, i will be reinforcing with rockwool. Rod specifies that regular fiberglass insulation is more than sufficient, anyways for some reason Rockwool is cheaper up here then the standard insulation.



Will post more pics later! :)
booksmart
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:33 am
Location: Marietta, GA, USA

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by booksmart »

Khoma wrote:
From what I can see in the photos, you only have the outer leaf in place at the moment, so any connections between different parts of that are fine. You have not yet built any of your inner-leaf, so there isn't any flanking. Of course, when you DO build the inner-leaf, that's when you need to take great care to ensure that no part of the inner leaf touches the outer leaf: they must remain absolutely separate. The important thing is to make sure that your outer-leaf is a complete "envelope", that fully surrounds the future inner-leaf. To do that, you will very likely need to complete the missing parts, and seal them well.
Maybe i haven't nailed the terminology yet, sorry for that. What i am trying to ask is: Is it a problem that the beam and its supporting studs are touching the outer leaf..?
No one seems to have answered this for you, so I'm going to hazard an answer: Yes, it is a big deal that your beam and it's supporting studs are touching the outer leaf, if they are part of your inner leaf structure. Connections means transferred vibration, and transferred vibration means noise (in & out). Depending on how solid and numerous those connections are, you're looking at lost isolation.
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

booksmart wrote: No one seems to have answered this for you, so I'm going to hazard an answer: Yes, it is a big deal that your beam and it's supporting studs are touching the outer leaf, if they are part of your inner leaf structure. Connections means transferred vibration, and transferred vibration means noise (in & out). Depending on how solid and numerous those connections are, you're looking at lost isolation.
I guess the only place the outer and inner leaf will connect is through the doorframe, i have not really decided on a superdoor or two separate doors yet. I can't see how and why an outer leaf is a part of an inner leaf structure. In my mind, that defeats the whole purpose.
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

Extensive touring, mixing records, attending school and taking care of your family sure takes up a lot of time from finishing "the office".

Anyways, i'm done with the outer leaf of the roof. :D 2 layers of drywall carefully caulked with insane amounts of backer rods and acoustic caulk. Temporarily held in place by 4d finish nails and then held in place by som 1 x 3 ledger boards. Used rockwool for insulation since it's cheaper than standard fiberglass insulation here.
20160815_142339.jpg
Now i have diverted my attention to the window you see on the picture. Instead of removing it and sealing it of, i want to make it wider and higher in size. The view outside can be a huge inspiration while working long hours. Although i'am shooting myself in the foot in regards to the additional time and expenses i am adding to this project, i want to have it done. I have been looking at windows, and as i understand, it will be the weakpoint in terms of the outer leaf. As i have understood the general principle, heavy mass will be key to match the density of the wall. 30 cm thick concrete wall? Anyways, i found some distributers of "soundsproofed windows" in the area, so i'll call them up soon.
Soundman2020
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Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Soundman2020 »

Wow! Good to see you back, after such a long delay!
2 layers of drywall carefully caulked with insane amounts of backer rods and acoustic caulk.
Sounds like it might be almost enough, then! :) "Insane" is a good start, but "totally, absolutely, incredibly insane" would be better... :shot: :roll:

Seriously, it's looking quite good.
Anyways, i found some distributers of "soundsproofed windows" in the area, so i'll call them up soon.
Careful with that! What is normally sold as "soundproof", is not the right thing for studios. The things that are typically advertised as "soundproof windows", are usually double-glazed units, consisting of two thins panes of glass separated by a small air gap. That's fine for attenuating typical street noises, but no good for loud music. You would need two panes of thick laminated glass, one to go in your existing outer leaf wall, and the other will go in your new inner-leaf wall,when it goes up. If you really need very high isolation, then the pane for your outer leaf should be something like 10mm+12mm or even 12mm+15mm laminated glass, with acoustic PVB interlayer.
As i have understood the general principle, heavy mass will be key to match the density of the wall. 30 cm thick concrete wall?
Right. In theory to match the surface density of that wall you'd need massively thick glass, something like 25mm+25mm+25mm triple laminate ("bullet proof glass"). But in reality, you don't need to go that high (it would be hugely expensive!). With a total of about 25mm, you'd have a surface density of around 60kg/m2, which will get you very good isolation, provided that you have a decent air gap between that and the inner-leaf glass, and substantial mass of glass on the inner-leaf too.

How much isolation do you really need? In decibels. What's your goal?

- Stuart -
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

Wow! Good to see you back, after such a long delay!
Thank you, it's good to be back! :)
How much isolation do you really need? In decibels. What's your goal?
I did some research on companies in the area which specialised in concrete cutting, i found one guy who
could do it. But the price for that alone plus the windows... well let's just say i can't justify that expense.

I'll remove the window and seal it up somehow. Maybe leca would do the trick? That brings me to your question, about what i am aiming for.
I don't really know for sure, but i know i will primarily use the room for mixing and mastering. My main focus is to limit the amount of low end frequencies to the rest of the house so that i can stay focused while mixing, and whoever is in the rest of the house isn't bothered by my work. I tend to mix at low levels too.

Other then that, i would like to record acoustic instruments in the "live" end of the room as well, and there isn't really a problem to play loud in the daytime. I mean just after reinforcing the celling with 2 layers of drywall it has helped a lot! When both the leafs are done and i have proper ventilation installed, i'm confident that it will be more than enough.. but i don't have an exact number for what i am aiming for. I need to start planing the rest of the room in sketch up, and i'll be back with an update later this month :)
Khoma
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:41 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Small combined studio/control room design

Post by Khoma »

RIP :lol:
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